BITTERFROST - Test of Time Version - Page 3

Cyrion · January 7, 2004, 08:42

Superb units Curt (which is no surprise...)!

May I borrow your crossbowman for Discworld??

our_man · January 7, 2004, 08:52

Looking good Curt!

Do I take the presence of treasure chests and books in the units.gif to mean that the player will get to embark on quests in this scenario a la Midgard ?

fairline · January 7, 2004, 08:56

Looking forward to this one too, Curt! ToT scenarios are pretty thin on the ground, and this one is sure to be a classic if its an enhanced version of the MGE scenario.

It's probably too late for unit suggestions, but how about some individual hero units. I know you had events-produced super-units in the first version, but how about some individual character units to embark on quests with?

curtsibling · January 7, 2004, 10:22

@Cyrion:
Please, take what you wish!

I owe you for not getting those riders done!

@our_man:
Correct!
The huge events space of ToT will be used for some fun quests!
The rewards will be gold, spells, and some special units.

@fairline:
You got it!

You may notice some cheesy heroes on the 2nd last row of units in the above post.

And more will be made!

I plan to give each civ a special unit. Even those evil Ancients!

curtsibling · January 7, 2004, 10:24

The little crowns will be used to signify a hero unit.

Right now they are for elites, but I will make a new symbol for that.

Zabba149 · January 7, 2004, 13:53

Keep up the good work Curt! I am really looking forward to a good ToT scenario..

.......there are so few out there..

curtsibling · January 8, 2004, 06:50

Cheers!

This won't be the last ToT work I do, I plan to do Dictator3 also...

curtsibling · January 26, 2004, 21:06

Work resumes!

I present the current line up of units...Some new hero units too!

Last unit of the 3rd bottom row:
Ancient Strike Cannon.

2nd bottom row:
Egraz the Sorceress, Rashkan the Horned, Irene the Maiden, Lopaz the Bright, Othmok Deepeye, Nathnael Sternsteel, Goldfist the Greedy, Bonemystic the Bleak, Slode the Slyfoot.

Bottom row:
Fine Treasure, Random Chest, Fine Gold, Wise Tome, King of Bitterfrost, Floron the Lighthand, Bhurkis the Mighty, Dromo the Fearless, Scoundrel.

Silly names, I know!
But that is the staple of fantasy genres!
You will be able to unlock these characters in a variety of ways, even forming an army with them!

If you can retain them without mishap!

More to come...

curtsibling · January 27, 2004, 07:07

The new title.gif...

curtsibling · February 3, 2004, 19:56

ToT Bitterfrost is ready for a beta-playtest, but I need somewhere to host it...

I will seek out a place on CDG and post a link soon!

curtsibling · February 3, 2004, 20:35

OK, here it is!

Please give me some feedback on the scenario, you'll need ToT to enjoy!

http://cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ2/viewtopic.php?t=186

Let me know what is needing fixed, changed, etc!

Catfish · February 4, 2004, 04:43

Downloaded it. I'll only have time to do limited testing. You've released it at a bad time - a bunch of ToT-ers are out of action. Techumseh's ultra-busy, Boco's bitten off more than he can chew

and William Keenan's nowhere to be seen.

I noticed you're using the older mountain set. I later cleaned up the bases so they tile better. I also changed most of my terrain to the smoother tiling style described by Mercator. I'm using his grids in the icons.bmp file as well.

Someone also had a moan to me about my l-w-l coastline tiles, specifically that the river mouths weren't wide enough. This has been addressed. In updating these on my website, I then noticed a copy-and-paste bugger up in one of the files – now fixed.

BTW, tile dithering was kept to a minimum due to the contrasting light and dark terrain types.

Oh and I was also using stepping/mile stones to mark out the roads. I had difficulty following the road signs.

Anyway, I've attached the versions of terrain1, terrain2 and icons that I'm currently using.

BitterTerrain.zip

curtsibling · February 4, 2004, 07:53

Thanks, Catfish!

I'll update the terrain (which looks great regardless) with your recommendations...

Mercator · February 4, 2004, 08:14

I'm a lousy playtester, but I can at least give you some comment on the graphics...

Unlike Catfish, I would actually prefer much more dithering. That way the terrain transitions aren't as abrupt. And I'm not a big fan of the mountain graphics, I'm afraid. Other than that, it looks great!

Oh, and in case you'd want to get rid of the health bars over the gold, huts and other immobile units, you could use the wonder that is called SpriteGen.

They're not very obtrusive though, so it's quite OK as it is.

Catfish · February 4, 2004, 08:40

Back again. I bothered to "Mercatorise" the coastlines, tweak a few trees and river mouths (I can't help myself - I blame Boco

) so I've updated the file again, providing uploads are working properly.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercator
Unlike Catfish, I would actually prefer much more dithering. That way the terrain transitions aren't as abrupt. And I'm not a big fan of the mountain graphics, I'm afraid. Other than that, it looks great!

I tried different amounts of dithering and wasn't keen on large amounts, especially with the dark forest juxtaposed to the light, flat types. I suppose I could experiment some more, but it's personal taste, I guess. You know how to change it.

The mountains aren't by me, only modified by me. If you've got better ones, then cough them up.

curtsibling · February 4, 2004, 08:43

At the moment, I am doing playtests, but I just had to post this screenie!

While seraching the interior of the island, What did I find?
A gang of ancient warriors and a even a terror beam...Gah!

It's a fair bet that this archer died fairly instantly on the next turn!

curtsibling · February 4, 2004, 08:45

@Catfish and Merc:
Cheers chaps!

I will take a look at spritegen, and see what gives.

Also I will DL and add that terrain update, Catfish.

Boco · February 4, 2004, 20:37

Quote:

Someone also had a moan to me about my l-w-l coastline tiles, specifically that the river mouths weren't wide enough.

Quote:

I can't help myself - I blame Boco

You should be pleased to know that EA's unit keys are quite minimalist now.

Quote:

Boco's bitten off more than he can chew

Sad but true at present. Gotta hold off on new projects until EA's current alpha is complete and I've figured out whether I can help on another project. If you're still desperate then, we can swap favors.

Quote:

Techumseh's ultra-busy

Last I heard from him was on the 29th, and that was pretty cryptic. Is he okay?

Catfish · February 5, 2004, 02:35

Quote:

Originally posted by curtsibling
It's a fair bet that this archer died fairly instantly on the next turn!

I'd suggest he's up a familiar creek without a paddle.

I've done some play-testing and made notes as I went along:

- Make Bitter1.txt wider. About 560.
- Need to widen the Production box (City screen) to accommodate units with long names. Haven't tested them all, but it's got to be at least 480 (default is 440).
- Is there meant to be a Describe.txt file?
- You have renamed the form of government, Monarchy as Feudalism. Its prerequisite tech is still called Monarchy, though. In fact the Monarchy tech's prereq is Feudalism.
- Could you lighten the darker of the blue civ colours for the Crusader Kingdom? I can't read the orders on the unit key - it's hard enough at the best of times. It's also a little difficult to read the city size.
- You really should take my name out of the Cities.bmp. My efforts were minimal on that file. Replace it with Favoured Flight.
- I found a few spelling (and minor grammar) mistakes in the events.txt and bitter1.txt files. If you want me to get that sorted, let me know and I'll PM you.

"the thrice cursed Lich king"

About the terrain:

I had a look at other mountain sets floating around and I can't say I'm really keen on any of them. I think the main features that these ones lack are snow caps, being an icy world and all. I had another bash at that, but I just don't like the results I'm getting.

I updated the coastlines (again). They were considerably lighter than the thawland terrain, from which they were derived. I must have darkened the thawland since (a few months ago, now). I've now darkened the coastlines to match. Ditto with the river mouths. With the way the Bitterfrost map is laid out – with all those single-tile pockets of ocean - I decided that I preferred the old style L-W-L coastline tiles (sorry Boco – just for this scenario

).

For roads, I tried something that looked more like milestones than stepping stones (I was having a bit of trouble seeing those). How do these look?

In this download, I have the milestone, darkened coastline and river mouths, old & new L-W-L coastlines for comparison (your choice) and a larger dithering pattern (which I'm currently using). I've had to change my dithering patterns, since implementing the smoother tile pattern.

BitterUpdate.zip (only 28 Kb)

curtsibling · February 5, 2004, 05:40

Thanks for the feedback, Catfish!

I will sort those box widths, and if you spot any typos or grammatical mistakes, please let me know.

I ran the events through MS spell-checker, but it is infamously treacherous!

I like the dithering on that screenshot too, also the strengh shield design...Any chance of a copy?

I will give those rather nice paving/milestones a shot, as the are darker and fit the broody atmosphere better.

PS
How do I go about lightening the colours on the shield bar?

Thanks in advance, for your superb help, mate!

curtsibling · February 5, 2004, 05:45

I plan to implement some new sound FX too, as the Urzits and some others need their own noises.

Catfish · February 5, 2004, 07:23

Quote:

Originally posted by curtsibling
I like the dithering on that screenshot too, also the strengh shield design...Any chance of a copy?

When I did the terrain last year, I had problems with the dithering where the dark forest terrain bordered the light stuff. I haven't revealed the whole map, yet, and haven't encountered any of this terrain thus far, but I believe that most people would prefer more dithering than what I had originally.

Here's my unit key in all its glory.

I like to keep things simple.

Quote:

Originally posted by curtsibling
How do I go about lightening the colours on the shield bar?

No revelations here - you'd be familiar with most of this, Curt. For anyone else reading this: it applies to ToT only!

1. Determines the colour of the city name font.
2. Determines the colour of the city size box, unit key (shield) and team colour masks for sprites. In the game, the colour on the key is a darker version of this pixel.

Edit: Minor correction - revolt box unaffected.

curtsibling · February 5, 2004, 07:39

Catfish,
Nice one!

Can you post your version of cities, if possible?

My thanks!

Mercator · February 5, 2004, 21:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Catfish
2. Determines the colour of the city size and revolt boxes, unit key (shield) and team colour masks for sprites. In the game, the colour on the key is a darker version of this pixel.

And to be exact, to get that darker shade, the RGB values are all halved. They'll be slightly off that in ToT, but that's because the graphics are 15-bit.

Boco · February 6, 2004, 00:05

That programmer must have been a new parent at the time. The halving makes the color as appealing as peas and oats baby food.

('Poly needs a hurl smiley)

curtsibling · February 6, 2004, 04:23

I don't understand the Microprose rationale behind having the colours duller than a day trip to Aberdeen.

Catfish · February 6, 2004, 08:15

Quote:

Originally posted by curtsibling
Can you post your version of cities, if possible?

It's the same as yours! Or at least it was until I changed it a few moments ago.

I tweaked the Native cities and lightened the civ colours for the Crusader Kingdom.

Quote:

Originally posted by curtsibling
I don't understand the Microprose rationale behind having the colours duller than a day trip to Aberdeen.

In fact I'm stumped by most of the artistic decisions made by the ToT design team. S**t awful would be my crude, Australian description.

A few more points:

- You left the receiver entries out of your "Hoard Chest" and "Fine Treasure" UnitKilled events.
- In the scenario intro (first turn), it says the Crusader Kingdom is in the south and the Bursar kingdom lies along the middle river. Is this from an old version? The Crusaders are in the NE and the Bursars are in the NW.
- I'd try halving the gold rewards for treasure and villages. I'm cashed up to the eyeballs.
- Irene the Maiden? Next there'll be Charlotte the Harlot.

I've put cities.bmp and units.bmp (modified the village unit and changed the unit key) in the download. I've also made spelling and grammar corrections in events.txt, bitter1.txt and advice.txt. In case you're wondering about SpriteGen and its effects, I've included the files necessary to hide the health bar for the village and treasure units. These are static.spr, bitter1.scn (with the SPR override disabled) and rules.txt (with the SPR override disabled for said units).

BitterUpdate2.zip

Cyrion · February 6, 2004, 10:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Catfish
- Irene the Maiden? Next there'll be Charlotte the Harlot.

Nice one!

Too bad you didn't post at 23:58...

curtsibling · February 6, 2004, 10:36

LOL!

Well spotted, you 'Troopers!'

Mercator · February 6, 2004, 10:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Boco
That programmer must have been a new parent at the time. The halving makes the color as appealing as peas and oats baby food.

('Poly needs a hurl smiley)

I just realised that my new version of SpriteGen could fix this too. Make this part of the shield transparent, but add a masked area under it on your unit graphics.