What Next?

Captain Nemo · October 13, 2000, 10:02

This mini-topic, "what would you like to see from me next", was inside the Second Front thread. I thought a separate topic for this was in order so here it is.

I am only willing to do another WWII scenario, because this is my field of knowledge and I have a pretty substantial library of units/terrains/wonders etc. for it.

Here are the proposed themes with their respective votes to date. Please copy the section below to your reply and add your vote to the tally so we can all keep score.

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 2
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 2
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (British or German): 0
Battle of Britain (British side): 1 (My vote)

Here are a few clarifications:

-Red Front, the map is made, 10% bigger than the original and much better proportionned. Harlan made it and assigned city populations, resources, industrial areas etc... from actual 1941 figures. Historically the map is 100% better than the original. Some terrain is changed as hills have been reintroduced and there is a new "mineral" terrain representing the rich Ural region metal, chemical and coal deposits. Bereza and oilfields are lost as separate terrain types. The tech tree will be beefed up and there will be more variety in units through the years of the war.

-Stalingrad: house to house fighting... yes each block would be a city but with no name and a hidden size. Again separate Civs for airforces but here I can let them be AI controlled since their role was not as critical as in Normandy (Hope to avoid the hotseat mode). Mostly infantry units to avoid the unrealistic aspect of having dozen of tanks inside one house. The scenario would cover the battle for the city of Stalingrad, not the broader campaign with the encirclement etc... I haven't chosen sides yet.
Soviets would be more interesting IMHO as they have the Volga bridges/resupply barges... This even has the potential of being a two sides scenario as the historical details of the actual battle are less known.
Special units: snipers, mortars, machine gun nests, a lot of different infantry types, light artillery.

-Battle of Britain:
Have a lot of good ideas here too. Human control of the RAF and Air defense network (Radar stations and Ack-ack guns). British population and industry represented by an AI producing no military units, just civilians, factories, trade trucks, cargo ships etc...
Human player owns just a handful of factories producing the airplanes and AA guns + fixed airbases (These are units with air carrying capability) across the UK. The Luftwaffe can destroy the airbases reducing the operating ranges of the RAF fighters as well as bomb the aircraft factories. AA guns can be placed in defensive lines to protect the British cities but can't be inside the cities since they are AI controlled.
Luftwaffe scores extra units/money for destroying factories, killing civilians, sinking ships and destroying airbases. If critical mass is reached (ie massive Luftwaffe superiority) an event triggers the release of 100 transport ships with German infantry from French channel ports...

As you can see I thought most about these 3.

This scenario building hobby of mine will end when CivIIs popularity falls off...release of Civ3?

DarthVeda · October 13, 2000, 10:12

chek tha otter thred

Captain Nemo · October 13, 2000, 10:22

With DarthVeda's vote:

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 3
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 2
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 0
Battle of Britain (British side): 1

[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited October 13, 2000).]

BeBro · October 13, 2000, 10:37

I love the Battle of Britain idea! So here´s the new result:

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 3
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 2
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 0
Battle of Britain (British side): 2

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Civ2000

Captain Nemo · October 13, 2000, 11:51

To add a little weight to your vote Bebro:

-Forgot to mention veteran pilots... As each phase of the battle is loaded (How about 14 days, scenario could be played in 6-7 14-day rounds) Old planes that have survived previous encounters are upgraded to "Veterans" then "Aces" by moving the units around. It requires the use of Leonardo's to upgrade production regularly as in Red Front but is feasible.

-Day-night raids: Red Front style change of season could be used to simulate Day/night raids alternating every 2 turns although this might require too frequent reloads? I would not expand the time-scale, just create a overall day-night alternation for strategic purposes. Interesting graphics, all terrain as black/grey silhouettes, cities/suburbs as black clusters with lighted windows and German planes as black shadows, almost invisible like the mines in SF?

I guess I'm trying to sell the idea!!

Stefan Härtel · October 13, 2000, 11:53

Afrika Korps--British and German

Max Webster · October 13, 2000, 14:09

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 4
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 2
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 1
Battle of Britain (British side): 2

kcbob · October 13, 2000, 14:42

First let me say that I have the highest regard for you and Harlan and all the other scenario builders in the world. It takes great patience, vision, and time to come up with these. Thank you all very much from the bottom of my heart.

Would it be possible for you to consider a naval scenario, say something in the Pacific? With a name like Captain Nemo, that would seem to make sense. I tried one once back in my Commodore 64 days and wouldn't mind seeing one crafted by you.

If ground warfare is your area of expertise, so be it. But a naval scenario might be fun.

Oops! Forgot to vote.

Afrikakorps.

------------------
Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited October 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited October 13, 2000).]

Captain Nemo · October 13, 2000, 15:27

Smash:
2194 Days of War is about as close as you can get with the entire WWII idea, IMHO. Trying to add the opening phases (Poland, France) would make it impossible...

I think I can get the Battle of Britain to work well if the AI bombers are attacking AI cities and AI units. You end up trying to defend one AI against the other. German bombers will have very high attack numbers but be vulnerable to Flak and fighters. German fighters will be divided in two groups, some with high defense and no attack to avoid idiotic attacks against cities. With the attack bit set they will travel with the bombers and defend them against Allied fighters. The other group of fighters will be of the normal type to attack British fighters. If I set the air attack/defense at much lower levels than the ground attack I should be able to insure that the fighters don't attack ground units... Flak could be "ships" with the air attack bit set and the paradrop capability so they can be placed in batteries around the cities but then not move and only attack adjacent airplanes...

Kcbob:
Harlan did a "War in the Pacific" scenario and advised me that the AI is too stupid and ends up requiring so much help that you are building the entire AI offensive for him.

Here is the tally with the 2 newest votes:

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 4
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 2
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 3
Battle of Britain (British side): 2

C0ckney · October 13, 2000, 16:11

Starlingrad, both sides if possible.

I like the Afrikakorps idea as well

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Windows 98 (windoze) a 32 bit extention of a 16 bit graphical shell for an 8 bit operating system, origalanly coded for a 4 bit processor by a 2 bit company who can't stand one bit of competition!

Allard HS · October 13, 2000, 16:19

Though I understand it's easiest to build a scenario with the units that are already available, I am a bit disappointed that you chose to do yet another ww2 scenario. Do not understand me wrong, I like ww2 scenarios, I like SF, but there are a few thousand years more of history than just those, well, 2194 days.

The Bayeux idea that you proposed a long time ago still seems very very nice. I myself would long ago have done it were it not that I do not have the necessary information and knowledge. Also, there are more wars that deserve attention.

But, if you choose another ww2 scenario, and if we are given the choice to which you are going to make, then I would pick France 1940. I would prefer it from the French side, but the German side would also be fun. And, of course, Holland might be a part of the scenario. hehe.

My own personal best choice of a ww2 scenario would be Fall Gelb, but that was not in the list

That makes the score:

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 4
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 2
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 1
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 3
Battle of Britain (British side): 2

S_Palpatine · October 13, 2000, 17:00

Captain Nemo seems to be most intrested in the Battle of Britain idea, I would love to see what he would come up with.

Shadowstrike · October 13, 2000, 17:10

I would like to see that Afrikakorps, both sides (I'd love to play as the Desert Fox), but I would also like to see the Battle of the Bulge (Allied side). The Battle of Britain would be an interesting concept, a scenario based on air war (a first).

Put my vote under Afrikakorps

The ANZAC · October 13, 2000, 19:03

Ooo, this is a really hard decision. I like the Stalingrad idea very much, but I also like the Battle of Britain. Market Garden would be nice, also maybe you might consider the Burma Campaign? I think I put my vote with... Stalingard!!!

It would be nice having an urban scenario. You could have the sniper duels between the top German and Russian sniper who were sent to Stalingrad... When does this poll end.

Oh, here's the updated chart:

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 4
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 3
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 1
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 4
Battle of Britain (British side): 2

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"We sought to throw a raging lion ashore; what we got was a stranded whale!" -Winston Curchill on the Battle of Anzio

"Quis custodes ipsos custodiet?" -Juvenal

"I can walk!!" -Dr. Strangelove
[This message has been edited by The ANZAC (edited October 13, 2000).]

Eternal · October 13, 2000, 19:12

Your scenarios are usually too complex for me, but Stalingrad is what I would most like to see now. But I know anything you do will be a work of art.

Case · October 13, 2000, 19:20

I vote for AfrikaKorps, making the chart:

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 4
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 3
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 1
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 5
Battle of Britain (British side): 2

I can't see how the Ardennes would make a balanced senario, basically once the weather cleared the Germans were doomed.

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If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error
-John Kenneth Galbraith

dizepam · October 13, 2000, 22:35

Here is my vote:
Red Front 1.941 (New map): 4
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 4
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 1
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 5
Battle of Britain (British side): 2

Captain Nemo · October 13, 2000, 22:41

Adding the omitted votes of S_Palpatine, Cockney, Eternal the current score is:

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 4
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 6
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (French side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (Both sides): 5
Battle of Britain (British side): 3

Allard, I agree with you historically but practically I must say that I would prefer to attack another WWII scenario with 90% odds of success than throwing myself at a completely new subject and burning out midway. Let others with a passion for other times make those other scenarios:

BeBro, Medieval times
Jesus, History of Spain
Stefan, Ancient times
Allard, Dutch scenarios

The Hastings scenario was on my todo list for purely artistic reasons: Making a scenario that looks completely different using graphics from the Bayeux tapestry (Of which I have a 1/8 scale full reproduction)... It would be fun, but maybe not that playable and it would take a HORRENDOUS effort

because every graphic would have to be changed.

All the ideas I propose above are past the 50% design mark because I have most of the units, the terrain, the ideas, the books and the knowledge... Just need to slap the scenario together

About this survey it never ends and it's just an opinion poll, not a mandate for me to do whatever gets most votes, because my vote counts for 500!

I am talking most about the Battle of Britain because it's an idea I just came up with and have not discussed here before. What makes the most sense is Red Front because I already have the map. And the entire structure for it.

[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited October 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited October 13, 2000).]

Captain Nemo · October 14, 2000, 00:02

And with Stefan's vote:

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 3
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 2
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 1
Battle of Britain (British side): 2

Smash · October 14, 2000, 00:41

Afrika Korps is a very good subject.

Battle of Britain sounds good also but aircraft in this game aren't used all that well by the ai.I wonder what ideas you could come up with to make it good.Day and night is good starting idea.I like it.

Ever do anything with Operation Market Garden?Lots of logistical possibilities.Many scenarios in a scenario type thing.

I know.How bout the entire 2nd world war from start to finish?Now that would be ambitious.

Chris Kirchgasler · October 14, 2000, 01:14

I want Red Front 1.941, if my opinion is of value.

If you decide to start fresh, though, mark me down for Afrikakorps -- that would be very interesting.

C0ckney · October 14, 2000, 01:57

Ahem,

My Starlingrad vote was not counted

Leonidas · October 14, 2000, 02:42

They are all excellent choices to choose from. I hope eventually most of these will be done

But for the next scenarios I would LOVE to see a Battle of Britain and an Afrika Korps scenario.

I love defensive scenarios, and I loved Red Front for that reason - just awesome. I think Battle of Britain would make a terrific defensive scenario - really make it hard - give the human a real challenge. This scenario opens up so many possibilities...

Also I think an Afrika Korps scenario would be terrific. Have a new map of the entire North Africa! Fight your way to the Suez; try to eliminate Malta; etc.

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 4
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 6
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (French side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (Both sides): 6
Battle of Britain (British side): 4

Keep up the great work Captain Nemo

[This message has been edited by Leonidas (edited October 14, 2000).]

Prometeus · October 14, 2000, 05:26

If you need an help with a Stalingrad scenario...

PS of course i vote Stalingrad.

kcbob · October 14, 2000, 15:26

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Nemo on 10-13-2000 10:41 PM
Adding the omitted votes of S_Palpatine, Cockney, Eternal the current score is:

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 4
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 6
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (French side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (Both sides): 5
Battle of Britain (British side): 3

Allard, I agree with you historically but practically I must say that I would prefer to attack another WWII scenario with 90% odds of success than throwing myself at a completely new subject and burning out midway. Let others with a passion for other times make those other scenarios:

BeBro, Medieval times
Jesus, History of Spain
Stefan, Ancient times
Allard, Dutch scenarios

The Hastings scenario was on my todo list for purely artistic reasons: Making a scenario that looks completely different using graphics from the Bayeux tapestry (Of which I have a 1/8 scale full reproduction)... It would be fun, but maybe not that playable and it would take a HORRENDOUS effort

because every graphic would have to be changed.

All the ideas I propose above are past the 50% design mark because I have most of the units, the terrain, the ideas, the books and the knowledge... Just need to slap the scenario together

About this survey it never ends and it's just an opinion poll, not a mandate for me to do whatever gets most votes, because my vote counts for 500!

I am talking most about the Battle of Britain because it's an idea I just came up with and have not discussed here before. What makes the most sense is Red Front because I already have the map. And the entire structure for it.

[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited October 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited October 13, 2000).]

kcbob · October 14, 2000, 15:27

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Nemo on 10-13-2000 10:41 PM
About this survey it never ends and it's just an opinion poll, not a mandate for me to do whatever gets most votes, because my vote counts for 500!

Okay, can you be bought?

------------------
Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

Cal · October 14, 2000, 15:28

...wait, did I vote already? I can't remember...

Captain Nemo · October 14, 2000, 16:27

I think you withheld your vote Cal until you heard more about the choices.

Kcbob, why did you replicate that post? I can't be bought, I do this for fun only... Contrary to most scenario designers here I don't really hope to ever make any money at it

Captain Nemo · October 14, 2000, 16:32

With Chris' and Prometeus' votes

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 5
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 7
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (French side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (Both sides): 6
Battle of Britain (British side): 4

Cockney, look a few posts up I did add your vote...

C0ckney · October 14, 2000, 16:56

ooops sorry

/goes red