War of the Worlds based on Exiles Imperialism 1870 scenario

[Exile]

Just great. Another one.

Sometimes, I really miss the university environment. There, if I caught a student presenting someone else's work as their own, I could flunk them or even get them tossed out. Here, I just have to put up with it, apparently.

I work hard and spend literally hundreds of man-hours tweaking and perfecting each scenario so that it works just the way I want it to.

Then someone comes along, steals my work, presents the bulk of it as their own, tosses off a little "based on" and then tries to take full credit.

In what world is this considered acceptable?

I must be living in a different one.

And here's another thing; WHY MINE? Why aren't people stealing JayBee's or Stefan's or Case's or Tech's? Just my luck, I suppose.

[curtsibling]

@Exile:

I am surprised and saddened at the fact that the thread starter did not seek your permission before going public with this idea.

@thorgrimm:

I suggest you cool it with this scen and contact Exile about your plans for this project.

It should have been done beforehand, and it is merely manners to do so now.

[thorgrimm]

Well you EGOTISTICAL i never stole a Damn Thing!!!! I gave credit and if Exile's Piss poor ego problems give him a *&%$# swelled Head thats his problem unless he has a copyright on his scen he does not own it The people who bought out microprose do!!! I thought using an idea created by someone else and giving credit was a form of flattery but i guess i was wrong it seems that we have a few swelled heads in this crowd of GOOD OLE BOYS So i bid you Adeau and i feel sorry for you if you think that by using your scen i was "stealing from you" you are dead wrong and a miserable wretch at the same time. Oh by the way in 1870 the Philippines, Cuba and Puerto Rico belonged to Spain you miserable cur NEVER CALL ME A THIEF AGAIN!!!

[Exile]

If you want to create a scenario, do it.

If you want to steal mine, I'm going to point it out . . .

Thief.

On a related note, does anyone else besides me suspect that this is yet another soundwave DL? He sure does have the tone of a soundwave DL. 16 total posts according to the profile.

[thorgrimm]

Drug smoking Hippy vermin You are the type of miserable wretch who think they are god's gift to the world while you are nothing but a cockroach who if in person would not say the same thing


MY NAME WAS NOT EVEN IN THE POST TITLE!!! you vermin on 2 legs and if you read the entire thread, puke you would see that i had asked around for you but you were probably to busy smoking dope you miserable excuse of a 2 legged vermin!

[curtsibling]

Gentlemen!
Enough of that!

There is no need to flame. I urge you to calm down, thorgrimm.

I think the scenario should be made within the framework of a fresh start, without basing it on any other scen.

It is OK to make such a scen for your own use, but if you wish to go public you must clear it with the author(s) first.

It is the way things are done.

Since exile made the basis of the scen here, he is entitled to a say.

But come on, let's keep it civil, chaps!

[Exile]

1.) Yes, I am egotistical. Why not? People keep appearing out of the blue and seem intent on stealing MY scenarios. Not anyone else's--just mine.

2.) Yes you did steal a plethora of "damn things." My map, my placements, my terrain, my numbers and relationships, my governments, my tech tree . . . do I really need to go on?

3.) Credit is good. How about permission?

4.) Ok, is my ego "piss poor" or a "problem?" Make up your mind.

5.) "Swelled head?" See the response #1 above.

6.) I never claimed to own it, and (obviously) can't prevent someone from stealing it and calling it their own. Just because I don't have a copyright doesn't mean that I didn't create it. Everyone here knows that I did.

7.) "using an idea" and stealing it are two different things.

8.) I am flattered. Doesn't excuse the theft, however.

9.) Who are the other swelled heads?

10.) "Good ole boys" Well, then, why don't you steal someone else's work and see how they respond? And how would you feel if someone stole yours and presented it, without consulting you or acquiring your permission, altered it so that it doesn't work the way it was intended, then puts it out there?

11.) It's adieu.

12.) I'm not wrong. You were stealing from me, and that has nothing to do with whether or not I'm a " miserable wretch."

13.) In the scenario, all three of the places you mentioned DO, in fact belong to Spain. This remark is, AFAICT, a non-sequitur.

14.) If you don't want to be called a thief, then stop stealing others' work.

[thorgrimm]

CurtSibling I apologise for my outrage if you check my posts on civfanatics you will see that i always try to debate with intelligence not emotionalism. And i did try to contact him to see if it was ok. Since i recieved no contact from him i did not see the harm because i do believe that i made an honest attempt to contact him. And as i have removed it he has nothing to complain about now, and i consider the matter closed. I also think i will not post here because of his slanderous statements against my honor and as a United States Marine we take slanderous statements very serious and as in the post title my name was nowhere in it. I did not "just come along and steal his work". As it was my very first attempt at creating a scenario i tried to pick the very best scenario i could to base WOTW on. As i have no graphic talent to speak of. And again i apologise for my outbreak of emotionalism.

[thorgrimm]

If someone uses anything i create and put out to the public i am thrilled not threatened by it.

[Dr Kellogg]

Originally posted by curtsibling
I think the scenario should be made within the framework of a fresh start, without basing it on any other scen.

That'd be probably the best.

[curtsibling]

@thorgrimm:

No sweat.

I hope we can reach a solution that is suitable for all.

[Exile]

1.) "drug-smoking hippie vermin" I don't use drugs, I am not a hippie, and I am just as human as you are. Carried away much?

2.) "cockroach" You DO seem to be caught up in this "vermin" thing, don't you?

3.) Yes, if I was in person, I would say the same thing. If it came to a fight, no problem kid.

4.) I wasn't smoking anything and what does the fact that I walk on 2 legs have to do with anything?

5.) "i always try to debate with intelligence not emotionalism." Ummm, failure.

6.) Ok, so lemme get this straight; if you can't contact someone to acquire their permission to use the things they've created, then it's allright to steal it, alter it, and put it out there anyway?! Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

7.) No "slander." Just facts. It's my scenario. You took it and altered it, then posted it here without my permission, approval, or even knowledge. If I'm slandering you, sue me. Seriously.

8.) You're a marine? Then your "honor" should dictate that you not steal from someone else. In any case, I'm not sure that I believe it, and I'm certainly not impressed.

9.) Glad to hear my scenario was the best.

10.) Little late to say you're sorry, and I notice that you're only apologizing to Curt for throwing a tantrum, not to me for stealing my work and attempting to pass it off as your own.

11.) You're not going to post here anymore? That's a slick way of avoiding responsibility for your theft and dodging any further embarrassment. Run away, little boy. They teach you that in the "marines?"

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that this person is a soundwave DL. Is there a moderator who has access to the necessary tools to take a look at the IP addy? What American uses epithets like "cur" and "wretch?" I'm very suspicious. He also seems right on the edge about this--as if he's already very frustrated with me refusing to just lie back and accept the theft of my work.

[thorgrimm]

Fact: Thorgrimm is nowhere in the title.

Fact: Thread is called War of the Worlds based on Exile's Imperialism scenario

Fact: Attempt to contact 28 October

Fact: Reply made 01 November

Fact: Objection noted 01 November

Fact: Scenario removed 01 November

Question: Where in the Scenario description does "Thorgrimm's scenario" appear?

Saepius Exertus, Semper Fidelis, Frater Infinitas

[Exile]

Sorry, but I'm not buying the claim that you attempted to contact me. Here's why;

I get online every day. I have my ACS control panel set up so that I'm notified via an email every time I receive a private message on the site. I see all private messages within 24 hours, probably sooner. Ask anyone here how long it takes me to respond. I received no notification from you.

I also check my email, every day, multiple times per day. I received no emails from you.

So, apparently, you're a liar as well as a thief.

[curtsibling]

@Exile:

This mode of dialogue will get you both nowhere.

If Thorgrimm has retracted his use of your stuff, it is best left at that.

Your stance is vindicated; I see no more need for these unpleasantries.

[Exile]

Curt, if he'll shut up trying to justify his actions and his villification of ME with the insults and name-calling, I'll let it drop.

I want a public apology too. Not just for the unauthorized theft of my work, but also for all the insults and name-calling as well. Throwing a temper tantrum is ok for toddlers and children. It's NOT for adults.

Here's something to think about; If I let this kind of thing slide, it's an open invitation for someone else to do the same thing or worse. I'm not about to take something like this laying down.

Neither would you.

[MarineCorps]

Your also doing the Name calling here.

[Exile]

Where? Quote?

Keep in mind, if someone does steal or does lie, then what I am doing is describing their actions. If someone does these things, they ARE a liar, they ARE a thief. The problem lies in the CHARACTER of the person, NOT my description.



And I notice that your profile indicates that the post above is the very first one you've ever posted. Whatsa matter, kid? Can't fight your own battles? (Oh, and btw, you should've said "you're" not "your." The latter is the possessive form, not the contraction of "you are" that was appropriate in the context of your sentence. )

[MarineCorps]

Yes it's my first post, I am talking to Throgrimm on MSN and was linked here.

[MarineCorps]

What are you talking about, I can't fight my own battles?

[Exile]

I don't care if he's a marine or not, sarge. His character is PRECISELY what is questionable here. If he IS a thief and a liar, then, as I just stated above, these terms are DESCRIPTIONS of his CONDUCT.

It wasn't I who used the words "cur" and "vermin" and "wretch." The truth is that the kid threw a temper tantrum because I didn't approve of his actions in regard to my work. The responsible action to take would have been to contact me privately, apologize for failing to acquire my approval, and I'd have treated the whole business quite differently.

Instead, when I finally DID notice what had happened, and voiced my justifiable disapproval, he acted like a spoiled little child and started calling me names and insulting me. Is THIS what you teach in the marines?

[MarineCorps]

Who said I was a sargent in the Marines? And no you didn't use those words, but you did insult him by calling him a thief, also I notice your online through AOL, Me too . Good bye.

[Exile]

Hmmmm. Now we have thinly-veiled threats from persons who remain anonymous. What good character. I'm so glad that you guys are showing your true colors--brings things into much clearer focus. I'm looking better and better. Thanks.

Sure, I use AIM. Contact me anytime you want.

[Mercator]

Ahem... Thorgrimm, you might have put Exile's name in the title of this thread, but you didn't mention his name in the scenario readme.

And it seems you only remembered Exile made the original after someone at CFC pointed it out, while I'm pretty sure Exile's name appears prominently in the original's readme.

But enough of that, you removed the download, so any other problems can be solved via PM.

Something more about the scenario though. You say it is based on the book, but the book only deals with Greater London (the Martians only launch 4 pods I believe, all landing around London), not to mention the Martians don't have any flying machines (perhaps because flight was only invented after H.G. Wells wrote the book? ).

[thorgrimm]

Actualy the Martians Launched 10 cylinders, as the journalist and the Curate were buried under the 5th cylinder. and on his way to London he describes a giant flying machine with swept back wings like a crescent moon. also wanted to show that if the Martians had not died of disease they would have had a very hard tome with the rest of the planet, given Humanitys capacity and ingenuity for war. As i believe that Humanity would not have folded up with the fall of the British Isles

[techumseh]

Just to set Exile's concern to rest - Soundwave, thorgrimm and Marine Corps all have different IP's, so they are at least different computers, if not different people.

thorgrimm, Mercator is right, you should have included a reference to Exile's work in your readme file, especially since so much of your scenario is actually his work.

Having said that, I think Exile should have taken a few things into account:

1) thorgrimm made it clear from the outset that his scenario was based on Exile's.

2) thorgrimm is new, and should have been given a chance to do the right thing before being attacked. Despite being attacked, he still did what he said he would from the outset, and withdrew the scenario.

3) the rule here has always been that material posted here (or on any civ site) is public domain and is available for everyone to use, PROVIDED that proper acknowledgement is given. No permission is required, although it is sometimes sought, as a courtesy.

When I was a newbie around here, I witnessed the debates when Alex the Magnificent tried to claim copyright on his artwork and even tried to SELL his scenarios (those were the days of Glastnost, I guess ) Alex conceded defeat, and the current understanding has been in place ever since.

[Case]

Originally posted by Exile
On a related note, does anyone else besides me suspect that this is yet another soundwave DL? He sure does have the tone of a soundwave DL.

The writing style does look spookily familiar

[though I accept Tech's findings of different IPs]

Originally posted by techumseh
3) the rule here has always been that material posted here (or on any civ site) is public domain and is available for everyone to use, PROVIDED that proper acknowledgement is given. No permission is required, although it is sometimes sought, as a courtesy.

I dunno - I think that it's OK to request that others seek permision for modifying something as large and labour-intensive as a scenario.

When I was a newbie around here, I witnessed the debates when Alex the Magnificent tried to claim copyright on his artwork and even tried to SELL his scenarios (those were the days of Glastnost, I guess ) Alex conceded defeat, and the current understanding has been in place ever since.

- I guess that explains why you could never load his graphics in MS paint.

[Exile]

Brian, I'm not asking anything of anyone else that I didn't do myself. When I put together MedDarkAge and American Empire, I was certain to contact and acquire permission from both Eric and Charles before placing those scenarios ANYWHERE. Both of these gentlemen gave me a clear and even enthusiastic go-ahead. Moreover, both of them had long since left the Civ2 community.

You're right in saying it's common courtesy. It is. But when someone does the things I've encountered to MY scenarios without even informing me that it was being done then I'm going to point it out. Agressively if necessary.

The reason is simple;

I spent a LOT of time making sure that, despite the difficulties with the Civ2 program itself, the scenarios performed the way that I wanted them to. When someone else monkeys with that work, they are simply not going to be able to take into account all the factors that I have. There are almost inevitably some factors that a thief isn't going to even know about, let alone understand. Then, the "modified" scenario goes out there. And it's screwed up. And then persons playing it are unhappy, unsatisfied, and wind up thinking that my scenario is crap.

Think that's an overstatement? Look at the "soundwave/history" episode. He "modified" AoW, and the result was that the careful balance I'd tried to create was ruined. The result of his tampering was wreckage.

I'm still trying to understand why MY scenarios are the only ones attracting this kind of "attention."

Thorgrim isn't a newbie. He's only a newbie here. He's been over on CivFan for some time. Long enough to know better, frankly.

[Case]

Originally posted by Exile
I'm still trying to understand why MY scenarios are the only ones attracting this kind of "attention."

As the saying goes, plagerism is the ultimate form of flattery

Seriously, the reason is that your scenarios are great potential starting points for various mods. The maps are great, the tech trees are excelent and the units and their stats are well chosen. I don't think that many other scenarios have such inherent flexibility. IMO the only ones which come close to being as mod-friendly are those by Harlan Thompson [who, for the record, I sought permission from before releasing mods of some of his scenarios. He was even nice enough to send me his unfinished scenario Dark Age/Vikings 2.0 which I lamely tried to finish, before giving it up owing to my near total ignorance of that period of history].

[Exile]

I feel much better now.

Thanks, Case.