New scenario: Greek war of independence 1821-1832 - Page 3

Varwnos · November 6, 2003, 15:36

Gerry, you are certainly a great help, this is my first scenario as you know and i am really very happy for your support, you will be in the text file thats for sure

and so will be Tanelorn, since i am using some of his- not sure if they are by him, or just selected by him- units (for the non-greek units, but also for all of the ships)

here is a look at units atm:

I didnt know how much work was needed to make a civ2 scenario, untill i started to make one myself. Now i know that it takes months even to start having units that dont look like utter crap (i hope that they are generally acceptable now)

There are really thousants of things that one can do, and even the most impressive scenarios dont employ all of the graphical slots, at least i havent seen a scenario that uses both the railway slots and the mountain slots for new graphics, or one that has that and also all new cities, or one that has all that plus huge tech tree with individual branches for each nation, and then there are so much more things one can do! But i realise that one doesnt need to do ALL that so as to make a fun scenario, and that is very good, since at the rate i am going if i dont make some general plans for the limits of this scenario i will just give up (and i dont want to do that at all!)

By the way it seems that the topic of the greek war of independence is cursed for civ2 scenario making

but i am confident that i will release this

I will probably focus more on balance of power and fun than history

see you soon

Arthedain · November 6, 2003, 17:46

The units are really nice varwnos! keep up the good work

gerryandersson · November 7, 2003, 05:19

The units look nice, but the wepons the greek soldiers have are alittle "hidden". I like it when you can see the weapon more clerly, like on the turkish infantry. But maby thats just me...

gerryandersson · November 7, 2003, 05:21

But don´t get me wrong, the units are verry good any way.

gerryandersson · November 7, 2003, 07:27

...And one other thing. I love scenarios with a simple begining. You don´t have many units and when you get more units you can keep an eye on them. I often seem to neglect manny units if there are too manny that I havent built and sent there my self.

Varwnos · November 7, 2003, 12:10

thank you Arthedain & Gerry

yes, there wont be seas of units, only the ottomans probably will have many from the start, but they are of considerably weaker power.

changes:

-new unit for greek leader (in the pic)

-some other new units, variations (one of them in the pic, island greek unit)

-probably wont have "egyptians" as a nation, since i dont really see the point. this means however that now there is room for one more nation. I could make "nation" Philhellenes, with lord byron and some english and french, and even an american unit. Any suggestions? (atm lord byron is either a southern, or an epirotan greek unit, and so is his byronic guard)

also i havent yet created any mounted unit, because i suck at them, so if anyone wants to he can help with mounted greek units, using preferably the horse that the mounted ottoman unit has

otherwise probably i wont have any of them unless i can create anything half-decent

here is the pic:

Varwnos · November 8, 2003, 18:43

since the "nation" egyptians was dropped (they will be simply ottoman units) i am undecided on whether i will have a 7nth nation or not, and which it will be if i have one. I am thinking that the more rational choice would be to have a "nation" under Maurokordatos to represent the civil war that broke out in 1823 (i think it was in 23) while the war of independence was still going on. The problem with this is whether it will be fun or not.

changes since the last report:

-minor changes in some units/also picked some more units by others. turns out that i havent selected anything made by Tanelorn (at least not yet)

-decided that the island greeks will start with many island cities, since it is really boring to have all of them be liberated through events, with units popping up here and there, since then i would have to do that for all of them. Only exception is the city of Chios, which is part of an event

-probably the macedonian greek "nation" will not have any city. But if people want the scenario to be more about fun they can have one, expansion is impossible though since Thessalonike stands between them and the rest of the map, apart from one other city. I could ofcourse give them a city somewhere else, and keep them into play, it would be more fun, your thoughts?

-"nation" Epirotan Greeks starts with one or two cities, and is safe for the first rounds, since Vilaeti of Ioannena stands between it and the ottoman armies. So its fun and playable

-Southern greeks start with one city, near where the greek flag was hoisted for the first time to signal the revolution

-Decided to have unit "settler" not available in the start, but only through research (after all its the middle of a war!!!)

-i plan to have barbarian activity in the game, to represent outlaws and groups of mountain bandits, who many times acted indiferently to the revolution

If i have the 7nth nation be the other side of the civil war i am not sure what the benefit will be, as opposed to having the enemies in the civil war be depicted as regular barbarians units through events, after all they dont start with any city, and will just have an imobile unit somewhere.

Other candidates for a seventh nation?

Btw, Tanelorn, you had some french units in your unit collection, did the french take part in the defence of the vilaeti of Ioannena?

see you soon

-

Varwnos · November 8, 2003, 20:12

1. basic macedonian greek unit
2. strong island greek unit
3. Lord Byron & byronic guard
4. Kolokotronis & guard
5. basic southern greek unit
6. generic greek unit "revolutionary"

tanelorn · November 8, 2003, 21:20

I am afraid that no island Greeks wear "foustaneles" (Greek "kilts"), they wear loose black/ blue baggy pants (vrakes) instead. Foustaneles are particular to mainland Greece, only. The kilt itself is a great source of pride and tradition (its basic piece is a sleeved tunic- ÷åéñéäùôïò ÷éôùí). Also, in some parts of northern Greece people wear a flat scull cap (kalpaki) instead of the fez or woollen cap (fesi) and long white pants, though white pants are rare.

Varwnos · November 9, 2003, 02:17

well, this is a game, not a historical army unit catalog

ofcourse if you are offering to make those units i will accept them

i think that the units are looking a bit better now though

Varwnos · November 9, 2003, 02:28

your starting screen

tanelorn · November 9, 2003, 18:50

Could this on the left settlement be Souli? Agrafa perhaps? Yes, I might give it a try once I get some free time (lack of it explains why I haven't drawn much lately).

Varwnos · November 9, 2003, 23:04

i never even thought of Souli (certainly it is important in the history of the revolution) but dont know where exactly it should be placed on the map! (i know its in Epiros, ok, but not quite where!)

Also i am trying to find out where in the Pelloponese is Methone and Korone, since historically they were two of the few towns which werent liberated easily. If you can post any link to a map with any of those towns it would be very helpfull

ps i could always use your unit, the one with the blue coat and the "kalpaki", it certainly looks very cool, i am only afraid that it wouldnt fit in with my units (it looks better than them)

also i am trying to find a reasonably good timeline of the greek war of independence, again without success, so if you have any site in mind please post

btw did you have any icons ready for your scenario? (i need them too)

see you around

Varwnos · November 9, 2003, 23:23

It would be nice if i could get some help with the icons, it isnt much fun trying to do everything by oneself (let alone the end result being not as good)

so, optimistic that i may urge someone to help, i post yet another pick, this time YOU are in control of the Vilaeti of Ioannena, and the glorius city of Ioannena

gerryandersson · November 10, 2003, 04:08

What kind of help do you need with the icons? I can look fore some icons but I can´t make icons.

:) Smiley · November 10, 2003, 05:00

What are those buildings in the countryside?

gerryandersson · November 10, 2003, 07:27

You mean those tempel like buildings? I think they are tempels or historical ruins/buildings.

(Make them "clerer"/smaler varwnos)

Varwnos · November 10, 2003, 10:53

well i need some cool icons for the wonders, especially these:

-the Parthenon
-byzantine churches -not ok to use the one with Hagia Sofia (the great church in constantinople)

also regular icons for churches

i will certainly use many icons already found elsewhere, but dont want to just draw everything from one or two scenarios

as for the buildings in the countryside, i think that you mean the "towns"/suburbs. they are food providing terrain. The "temples" are the "greek monument" terrain which produces a lot of trade. They are near the main areas of historical ruins/monuments in Greece. I will probably have indivudual names for most of them (using the railroads terrain as another "temple" terrain) They are in these areas:

-Athens (the agora, parthenon, pillars of olympian zeus etc)

-Thessalonike (ancient greek market, roman palace of the tetrarchy etc)

-Ioannena (not in the city itself, but near it are the ruins of the oracle of dodoni, delphi is also somewhere near)

-Sparta (no real major ruin here, pretty much nothing remains in Sparte to signify the importance of the city in the past, thus Herodotus was proved correct in his saying)

-Epidavros (this isnt a city, its the ancient theatre of EPidavros, the best preserved and biggest in Greece, in the eastern edge of the Pelloponese)

-asia minor coast (representing several ruins there)

as for making the "temple" image smaller, i dont know if it would still be clear, i might alter it a bit to make it look more like a ruin though, if anyone wants to do it for me i accept!

you didnt say what 7nth civ you would like to have, since the game isnt hardcore historical (then there would only be 3 civs) there can be some fun civ around

if i had Crete in the map (only a very small part is there) i would have had the cretans

Varwnos · November 11, 2003, 02:03

Hi again!

i have been editing some of the units and creating new ones, here is a new one (next to an older one so you can see how they mix together)

certainly this is the best unit i made so far!

gerryandersson · November 11, 2003, 05:37

From IMPERIUM ROMANUM
Scenario by Bernd Brosing

Varwnos · November 11, 2003, 14:11

cool

i will take the partenon icon and probably a couple of others as well from imperium romanum

also the sword sequence for fighting is very cool, i may use that or edit my own

what do you think of the cannon unit?

Varwnos · November 11, 2003, 15:32

finished with the legs. i have to say that i am tired of working on the units, so i only plan to create one more unit: greek cavalry. Ok, a lot of work, and December is getting closer and closer!

other news: the temple icon went away (perhaps it shouldnt have) i will probably make some terrain with collapsed columns, there is a terrain with colapsed trees and i shall probably edit that

here are the units with their new, stronger legs

Varwnos · November 11, 2003, 19:13

here is the new terrain for ancient ruin. i might alter it a further bit, and may create a seperate terrain for more preserved historic sites (not sure) your thoughts on the pic?

to make it i edited the collapsed tree terrain from one of the lotr scenarios

gerryandersson · November 12, 2003, 05:13

The cannon unit is very nice

The ancent ruin to.

Varwnos · November 12, 2003, 20:56

i re-worked most of the untis and they look a LOT better.
the scenario is almost complete, since i have set all of the parameters for every nation apart from the "island greeks" which i plan to individualise a bit more, creating one or two special units for them. now i will place the icons (a few days work if i am very lazy) and then write a few events (nothing much, lord byron is the only certain one). technology wont be a major issue in the game, although the settler unit will only be available through research, and probably another strong unit. the scenario will play a lot like the "pelloponesian war" only in a much larger scale. the ottoman empire sadly is very boring to play, since i couldnt do anything else since it starts with almost all of the mainland cities (apart from 5) as things stand the vilaeti of Ioannena isnt much fun either, but since the game wont be hardcore historical the macedonian greeks are fun, and the epirotan greeks as well. the protagonist is the southern greks, and island greeks are challenging. here is a pic of the reworked units, with some totally new ones i made, the horse unit is one i am especially fond of

ps: Gerry (or anyone else) do you have any cool ottoman footsoldier unit to propose? i am not very happy with the one i am using at the moment. also an egyptian mercenary unit

(i am lazy)

gerryandersson · November 13, 2003, 05:40

Form...

'de Historibus Europae v. 2.2 by Henrik Lohmander
and
Brown Man's Burden II: the Scramble for Africa (Ver. 1.1),
by Carl Fritz
and
The Seven Years War
by Michael Jeszenka
and
History by "Soundave" (I think)

Varwnos · November 13, 2003, 12:48

cool selection Gerry

i will use the first unit for the egyptian mercenary, and another one of those for the ottoman empire/vilaeti of ioannena settler unit.

the scenario will be complete in a week or so.

techs to be researched include:
-french intervention (vilaeti of ioannena tech, provides the unit "french regular", and probably the settler unit as well

-english intervention (all greek "nations" tech, provides the unit "english regular" and the settler unit

-Navarino battle (ottoman tech, provides the unit "settler")

these are the techs will be be researched at some time in the game, not realistically researchable untill very late (and if you have lots of cities) techs will include "the bavarians in Greece" (unit bavarian regular, all greek "nations" tech) and "ottoman decline" with probably some other unit.

what do you think of the state of things? i mean its pretty much complete atm

certainly it has surpassed its original scope, i think that it will be one of the good scenarios around, and i am happy about that

other notes:

special units of each nation:

macedonian greeks: macedonian philikos (strong footsoldier)

epirotan greeks: rebel village (unique unit, although some are already in the map in the start of the game)

island greeks: island philikos (strong footsoldier) & exploding ship unit (missile)

southern greeks: the strong cavalry unit (also the greek leader unit and lord byron & guard, but they are unique, and not produced)

vilaeti of ioannena: unique footsoldier, probably some unit for Ali Pasha as well (not sure)

ottoman empire: unique footsoldier, unit for Kioutachis (general)

-added unit "cannonball".

edit: added new techs to be researched: (some already have one or more, while others are not allowed to research a few)

-epirotan heroes (heroe unit)

-19th century values

-armatoloi (strong footsoldier "armatolos" unit)

also hypothetical tech: Ioannenan searule

therefore now the tech sector is respectable, although not in the level of DAROE

But i am very confident about the scenario alltogether.

Only the icons remain to be done, then i will beta-test the nations, and then i will release the scenario, probably at the start of December

Arthedain · November 13, 2003, 17:21

Varwnos, I just come across a whole bunch of Greek units made by Tanelorn. Maybe you want a look @ them?

Varwnos · November 13, 2003, 18:48

I probably have, if they are the ones posted in these threads, but are you suggesting that you like them more than mine?

they are cool, but mine are ok too i think

anyway the units are complete, unless (Very unlikely) i bother to make another one or two. there is room for another 5 units i think, but frankly i dont see the point, the final unit i will have is the bavarian regular. apart from the units made by me fairline is the creator of most(or probably all, i am not sure)

btw who do i have to contact when the scenario is finished?

Varwnos · November 13, 2003, 20:00

here are ALL of my greek units Gerry

enjoy

they include improvements of old ones, and some never before seen

do tell me what you think of them