A balad for GS

[Darekill]

@ Sir Ralph
No, you don't sound harsh to me. You say what you mean and say it in clear words. Like I said I can handle that. No problem.

Concerning the PTWGII, you are right I'm not so present there but that has it's reasons. I'm too active in some other DG's and can't be everywhere and from what I've seen I'm one of few members that deliver some input at least sometimes....

[GhengisFarb™]

I can fully understand Sir Ralph's position. The SP Demogame was all about making the most perfect decisions possible, but the PTWDG has smaller teams and has become more about minimizing losses due to miscommunication and mistakes.

I know GoW has had quite a few of those, and its a whole different game when you are trying to recordinate miscommunicated battle and infrastructure plans and the what not.

[Harovan]

The mentioning of the second game wasn't meant to criticize you, it was just to demonstrate that I'm also actively involved in a demogame. By the way, I'm actually not that upset that I'm pretty much alone there (except rare comments from 3-4 others), this way I can meet decisions without having to poll and discuss.

[Beta]

Sounds like what we need is a Vox Public Announcement, or better yet, another poetry contest.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
These are mudslinging how exactly?

How exactly is anything Darekill wrote mudslinging or any worse form of grandstanding? Please, explain it to me. Or is it that GS is just exempt from such things?

And when exactly called anyone your Trappings a mudslinging campaign? I for my part didn't even read them, let alone say a single word of comment.

Im frankly glad you don't see fit to read them. That eliminates one person that could have been the one to report them to the mods. They don't call them that where anyone can see, they prefer to report them or to PM me.

Look at it this way GS aren't a team of whiners or fun nazis that want everyone to be miserable or to suck all the fun from the game, you know us well enough to know this isn't the case.

Then why do you think that members of GS get annoyed with these things in the public forum?

I have nothing but respect for the MEMBERS of GS.

Collectively, i have a distaste for the team that goes beyond measure, however.

Imagine a young Irish child who goes to school one day. He plays a game of marbles agianst 3 English children. In the game the 3 English kids gang up on him and beat him. Then they start poking fun at him saying they are better than him etc etc. He has a pretty big go back at them but is generally upset, as everyone else ganged up on him.
Later he tells the teacher. Is he right too?
The other kids will obviously say that he was mean to them back. Perhaps even suggesting the Irish kids "cries them a river". The 3 children will find it hard to understand why the other child got so upset and perhaps accuse him of whining. Whereas the Irish kid cannot understand why the other 3 behaved the way they did.

You conveniently forgot to mention how the English kids first asked him to join in as an equal and he refused. Still, at what time have we started poking fun? HOW exactly was that poking fun? Please explain it to me.

You want a reference? Take Roleplay. They have endured FAR more than you EVER have both in game and in the forum. They have given as well as they have received, and despite likely holding some well deserved grudges are not out posting and b*tching every time someone dares to make a CREATIVE post about their team or game events surrounding their team.

And that is the heart of my problem. Leave the creative submissions alone for the love of god!

This is not the first time at Poly I have seen such a thing, but it is the last time I am going to sit and remain quiet about it. Darekill was trying to add to the Poly community and you guys came in and quickly berrated him. This may be the only forum I am active in of late, but I will not stand idly by and watch such childish behavior.

Go ahead, go tell the teacher, but don't expect me to not at least attempt to meet you after school.

I want GS removed from this game. Period. Not for anything quantifiable or In-Game, but to return some fun to this forum. Nothing against the individuals, but the TEAM. I know I am not alone whether those others choose to speak up or not is their own decision.

I honestly feel GS is the heart of the matter in sucking this game dry of fun by the constant line of complaints on fun or creative posts and mourning of lost members, and I want it to stop. This requires a removal of the team. If I had my way, I'ld gift all their land to Vox as well if only so that Beta would be a world leader again and start making funny posts once more, even if they are at the expense of my own team, I would at least be entertained.

GS, you want me to be silent? Kill my unit and I will. Sir UnOrthOdOx is somewhere near the Alamo.

Bring it. I'll be there.

Sir UnOrthOdOx: Rider 4.3.3 - 3 War chickens killed, no retreats to date.

Aggie, I formally request that my search for MrWIA be put on hold and I be used to remove this GS atrocity from off of Bob, and god willing the game.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
How exactly is anything Darekill wrote mudslinging or any worse form of grandstanding? Please, explain it to me. Or is it that GS is just exempt from such things?

Where, pray tell, did I say this?

[UnOrthOdOx]

That is what started the thing here, but.

Let me rephrase.

How is what Darekill wrote any different from those?

[vulture]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx

I have nothing but respect for the MEMBERS of GS.

Collectively, i have a distaste for the team that goes beyond measure, however.

That's a shame, at least from my POV.

Aggie, I formally request that my search for MrWIA be put on hold and I be used to remove this GS atrocity from off of Bob, and god willing the game.

If you look carefully, you'll find all the GS leadership in the Lego capital. Just wander over there and sack the town, and you'll eliminate us no problem.

Many thanks to Vondrack for his excellent beer and hospitality

[Harovan]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
That is what started the thing here, but.

Let me rephrase.

How is what Darekill wrote any different from those?

You can't quote me, because I didn't say this. Next time inform yourself better before you launch an attack.

I already said, I hold no grudge against him. I find his poem superfluous and in terms poetry awfully bad, but I don't deem it mudslinging. Neither do I deem funny stories mudslinging.

What I do call mudslinging is what started with "Vox public announcements", where we with blatant lies were blamed to have not honored treaties and agreements while the opposite was true. This behavior has nothing to do with informing non-players what's going on. It is just putting down a team, nothing else. Beta apologized later for it, kudos to him and neither I nor anyone else in our team (I'm sure) still holds any grudge against him.

What concerns the attacks from your team later, when you broke our NAP again blaming it on us, they made me just ignore the lions share of your team. Not by adding you to my ignore list of course, but just by not responding to the bull. Works just fine.

[UnOrthOdOx]

You can't quote me, because I didn't say this.

You want to play the QUOTE game huh?

OK.

Go back and read my post. Did I call them mudslinging?

No. I just said GS has participated in the same as what happened in this thread. Pot, meet Kettle. Perhaps YOU should check and inform yourself as well.

What concerns the attacks from your team later, when you broke our NAP again blaming it on us

dead horse time, huh?

I informed your team after Bilbao that any further 'gifting' would be seen as an act of aggression, then you are surprised that when you accept another city we consider it breaking the NAP. Fine whatever.

Yes, we TECHNICALLY broke the NAP IN GAME by being the first to act aggressively. So, if we were an AI, we would have broken it. However, it should have been no surprise, and you acting like it was is laughable.

Hell, you sent a letter to ND saying you were going to save RP. That may as well been a declaration of war on us, having committed to removing them. DUH!!! Maybe we would see that as breaking the NAP? Nah....we're an AI, we only see what happens IN GAME, right?

It is only with the recent change in GS leadership that I have felt you guys have seen us as anything other than an AI, though. on them changing my opinion in that reguard.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
That eliminates one person that could have been the one to report them to the mods. They don't call them that where anyone can see, they prefer to report them or to PM me.

That's pretty gross , I didn't know this. Explains a part of your rage, but how do you know that it is to blame on our team? Prejudice? Or are you reading the cards?

[UnOrthOdOx]

While I don't KNOW, there was a reference to a private agreement made between myself and GS in the complaint.

Either a GS member complained or GS is sharing my PMs around. I don't care for either.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Go back and read my post. Did I call them mudslinging?
No. I just said GS has participated in the same as what happened in this thread. Pot, meet Kettle. Perhaps YOU should check and inform yourself as well.

Replying to a blame of mudslinging with the words "You have participated in it as well" should settle this.

dead horse time, huh?

Gosh, I don't care that you broke the NAP, so no need to explain it. We expected it, as a matter of fact. I'm just upset that it was, again, blamed on us.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Replying to a blame of mudslinging with the words "You have participated in it as well" should settle this.

Um...I was replying to THIS:

yes yes, perhaps I was too vague
in this thread ND ask why the save is delayed from GS.

In this thread is the reason.

GS has participated in exactly the type of stuff found in this thread.

Gosh, I don't care that you broke the NAP, so no need to explain it. We expected it, as a matter of fact. I'm just upset that it was, again, blamed on us.

Again, GS treating us like an AI.

It's only the act of violence that breaks the NAP in your eyes. Not the threatening accepting of 'gifts'. Landing of troops without permission, or writing a declaration of war. All of those are perfectly fine and not breaking the NAP, right?

Give me a break. You guys are as much at fault as us. If you can't see that, we will just have to disagree.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Again, GS treating us like an AI.

Insults, insults...

It's only the act of violence that breaks the NAP in your eyes. Not the threatening accepting of 'gifts'. Landing of troops without permission, or writing a declaration of war. All of those are perfectly fine and not breaking the NAP, right?

We landed troops with the permission of the owner of the land, the RP team. And accepting gifts is threatening, huh?

Again, I don't care as much as for a dead fly on the wall.

[asleepathewheel]

Pass the bottle of Prozac

[UnOrthOdOx]

Again, I don't care as much as for a dead fly on the wall.

That's why you brought it up, huh?

You know exactly what I was referring to as well. GS knew they were acting in a threatening manner. Go ahead and deny it publicly if it makes you feel better, just reinforces the two-faced attitude I have come to know you (as in GS, not you as in Sir Ralph) by.

Pass the bottle of Prozac

I'm sure GS wants every team as apathetic as them. No dice. I have chosen to put more of myself in this game than any of you will know through Trappings. It is emotional for me.

I will not sit by and watch a team belittle creative submissions by anyone. I draw the line here and now. You want to shut me up, come to the Alamo, or sit back and hide waiting for me to come find you.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Im frankly glad you don't see fit to read them. That eliminates one person that could have been the one to report them to the mods. They don't call them that where anyone can see, they prefer to report them or to PM me.

Any ideas on who did that? I find that to be pretty....well on a panag level if you know what I mean. anyway, its highly doubtful that (if it was a GS person) that they are still active on the team

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I have nothing but respect for the MEMBERS of GS.

Collectively, i have a distaste for the team that goes beyond measure, however.

Its just a game.

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
You want a reference? Take Roleplay. They have endured FAR more than you EVER have both in game and in the forum. They have given as well as they have received, and despite likely holding some well deserved grudges are not out posting and b*tching every time someone dares to make a CREATIVE post about their team or game events surrounding their team.

Immortal beloved anyone?

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I honestly feel GS is the heart of the matter in sucking this game dry of fun by the constant line of complaints on fun or creative posts and mourning of lost members, and I want it to stop. This requires a removal of the team.

If you want us removed, then you're going to have to bring it to Stormia. And I think you remember the last time GoW landed troops on our shores, and what happened the last time we were invaded at home.

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
GS, you want me to be silent? Kill my unit and I will. Sir UnOrthOdOx is somewhere near the Alamo.

Bring it. I'll be there.

Roflmao, give it a rest man, we don't give a rat's ass about your unit. You are the one that is making this into something personal.

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Aggie, I formally request that my search for MrWIA be put on hold and I be used to remove this GS atrocity from off of Bob, and god willing the game.

good show

[Harovan]

Oh come on Unorthodox, stop it already! I will too, promise. Even though it amuses me a bit to see you fret and fume. I think you should read again all of my posts in this thread and you will see, that you're just wasting your talent barking up the wrong tree, since I have nothing against Darekills poem (even though he never will turn into a Goethe, honestly). Will ya?

In fact, some posters, particularly even from your team, understand my point of view. Why can't you?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I'm sure GS wants every team as apathetic as them. No dice. I have chosen to put more of myself in this game than any of you will know through Trappings. It is emotional for me.

I will not sit by and watch a team belittle creative submissions by anyone. I draw the line here and now. You want to shut me up, come to the Alamo, or sit back and hide waiting for me to come find you.

You're a good guy Uno. And a decent writer (rider?).

Peace bro peace, its just a game.

[Darekill]

Little information about my poem and how it came to beeing written...

I had just read in our private forum about the battle and how well it ended for ND. Well I was pleased to put it mildly. So I was in the mood to write such a thing.
I wrote it just as fast as I could type it. no second thought, no reading through over and over to see if it was good. It wasn't even intendet to be good since I know that I'm not talented in such stuff. I didn't care. I thought it would be funny maybe someone would be able to laugh about this awful atempt of poetry.
So everyone can tell me right in the face that i never will be a goehte. That's not new for me, I realised that already.
Ah well, I think my little text was just a catalysator for an argument which I wouldn't even start. You pay to much attention to this...crap?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Oh come on Unorthodox, stop it already! I will too, promise. Even though it amuses me a bit to see you fret and fume. I think you should read again all of my posts in this thread and you will see, that you're just wasting your talent barking up the wrong tree, since I have nothing against Darekills poem (even though he never will turn into a Goethe, honestly). Will ya?

In fact, some posters, particularly even from your team, understand my point of view. Why can't you?

Sir Ralph, I fully understand and respect your PoV reguarding Darekill.

My first post was to one OPD who has been using "GS" and presumably speaking on behalf of GS, not himself. Anything beyond that has been responding to your quoting of that or later posts, nothing more.

If you will read my own posts, I am not arguing for mudslinging as you describe, but for people complaining about the creative works such as are found in this thread. Surely you can see the difference.

I'm not saying people need like them, but the should appreciate the effort.

Roflmao, give it a rest man, we don't give a rat's ass about your unit. You are the one that is making this into something personal.

Just throwing in some Roleplaying. I have a named unit, that allows me to personify both in and out of game. I personally enjoy it. If you care or not is not my concern. Yes, I am making it personal. As personal as my search for MrWIA, the dirty rotten no good child killer.

If you want us removed, then you're going to have to bring it to Stormia. And I think you remember the last time GoW landed troops on our shores, and what happened the last time we were invaded at home.

Still have that wall of units preventing such a thing from being POSSIBLE? I honestly haven't looked in a while.

If I have any say, which I am but one voice, I will most surely see to us landing. Never fear of that my friend.

Immortal beloved anyone?

Best you can do is something...how many months ago?

Any ideas on who did that? I find that to be pretty....well on a panag level if you know what I mean. anyway, its highly doubtful that (if it was a GS person) that they are still active on the team

No idea, it's not allowed to ask. There is pretty decent evidence it was from GS, though.

One bad apple....

Hence, I respect the members, not the team. The bunch is spoiled.

Its just a game.

Yes it is, Hence, I respect the members, but not the team. The team must die

[vondrack]

Actually, did I mention that I kind of like beer mixed with a little bit of tequila? Mexican beer, of course... would never do such a mixing thing to Czech beer...

[Arrian]

Jesus H. ****ing Christ.

Darekill's poem is fine. Trappings is fine (I haven't the faintest clue why someone would report you for Trappings, UnO).

As far as I know, OPD was not speaking on behalf of GS. In fact, I'd venture a guess that the vast majority of GS had absolutely no problem with Darekill's post (or any of Trappings).

-Arrian

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
What I do call mudslinging is what started with "Vox public announcements", where we with blatant lies were blamed to have not honored treaties and agreements while the opposite was true. This behavior has nothing to do with informing non-players what's going on.

What concerns the attacks from your team later, when you broke our NAP again blaming it on us, they made me just ignore the lions share of your team.

Sir Ralph, it really is a god damn shame that you have also not joined the exodus of GS players to leave your team.
You are truly far better suited, to sticking with the SP strategy forum, and killing AI.

You sound childish claiming you did not see the humour within the Vox Announcements.

And you make yourself and your team look foolish everytime you try and defend your teams position as not agressive against GoW.

Yes..if you were dealing with AI, GoW broke th NAP. But we are NOT AI
Your team took aggressive actions against GoW that the majority of human players within this game clearly agree.


And while I am on a role.... everytime you or a GS member blames your recent defeats on membership loss due to other teams mudslinging, you are coming across as a bunch of snot nosed elitists who's ego is desperately looking for someone else to blame for their own failings.

We know the bulk of GS membership is not like that, but please do yourself and your team a favour and stick to SP. You are hurting this game and your team by bemoaning the play style of other teams.

[Arrian]

H_E,

Our membership problems are a fact, not an excuse we're trying to hide behind. At least I'm not hiding behind it. Our present difficulties in-game are clearly due to choices we've made (or failed to make), in conjunction with choices the other teams have made (or failed to make). That's patently obvious. So obvious, in fact, that I didn't think it requires mention.

As for the repeated claims that GS treats other teams as if they were the AI, I can only laugh. Our negotiations with the various teams (from Vox, to GoW, to RP, Lego...) go far beyond that. We obviously aren't as adept at diplomacy as some of the other teams, but just because our strength lay in domestic planning doesn't mean we were ignoring other teams, or treating them as if they weren't human!

Finally, I still disagree with your characterization of our acceptance of RP's cities as "aggression," but it doesn't really matter. That issue has been thoroughly discussed, and I really don't think it needs further discussion.

-Arrian

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Arrian
H_E,

Our membership problems are a fact, not an excuse we're trying to hide behind. At least I'm not hiding behind it. Our present difficulties in-game are clearly due to choices we've made (or failed to make), in conjunction with choices the other teams have made (or failed to make). That's patently obvious. So obvious, in fact, that I didn't think it requires mention.

We agree then...

Originally posted by Arrian
As for the repeated claims that GS treats other teams as if they were the AI, I can only laugh. Our negotiations with the various teams (from Vox, to GoW, to RP, Lego...) go far beyond that. We obviously aren't as adept at diplomacy as some of the other teams, but just because our strength lay in domestic planning doesn't mean we were ignoring other teams, or treating them as if they weren't human!

GS are truly the masters of domestic planning

Originally posted by Arrian
Finally, I still disagree with your characterization of our acceptance of RP's cities as "aggression," but it doesn't really matter. That issue has been thoroughly discussed, and I really don't think it needs further discussion.

-Arrian

I am more than happy to agree to disagee on this point.
It's moot, and has already been passionately debated.
(But it was not I who first brought it up this time )

I really do respect the bulk of the membership of GS.
I have learnt an incrediable amount about this game from the strategy forum/SPDG/ISDG and analysis of your teams tactics in this PTWDG.

But I also respectively say, your team also has its fair share of whiners...who's only goal is to hijack the game into their own playstyle.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by vondrack
Actually, did I mention that I kind of like beer mixed with a little bit of tequila? Mexican beer, of course... would never do such a mixing thing to Czech beer...

You did mention it at another time and in another thread. But true remains true.

[Theseus]

Enough bad blood, everyone. And I do mean everyone!

Acknowledged: Inter-team relations have been difficult due to different styles... in gameplay, diplomacy, attitude, etc.

This keeps rearing its ugly head... and GS often seems to be involved. We will do all that we can to minimize that issue; we ask that the other teams try to move on from the past.

Can we get back to the game, folks, and have a little fun? And for those aspects of the game that are played out in PMs, chats, and the public forum... I BEG, on my hands and knees, that those of you who enjoy and thrive on those aspects RETURN, in full force!!

And can somebody PLEASE write the epic Fall of the War Chickens?

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Theseus
And can somebody PLEASE write the epic Fall of the War Chickens?

Knowing how totally humorless some members of GS are (mind you a very small minorty and definitely doesn't include the current leadership), I'm afraid if GoW wrote that it would lead to another round of stupid bashing.