rrright....

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Azazel
What an interesting metaphore.

Quote:

And Israel is clearly a BIG reasons for the tensions between the West and the Arab-Muslim world.

Since most of the arab world is actually mad that we even exist, I think that what's the problem is arab macho culture making them "all or nothing at all" all the goddamn time. OMG you didn't have it your way one time!

And they cry so piteously about always getting nothing. Losers!

[Az]

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Azazel
Btw, people, lately "Israelis" has been reduced to "Azazel".

Quote:

It has to do with why everybody pays attention and why people don't like it when you tramp on the guy who isn't getting a few billion a year from uncle sam. It's not a justification, it's an explanation as to why people say "Israel" when asked the question. Obviously it's a stupid answer, but there you go...

I REALLY fail to understand your point.

Did this discussion not start with the recent poll which suggested that most Europeans regard Israel as the greatest single danger to world peace (or something)?

If so, then I'm explaining why they got that answer.

I don't have a "point" in that I'm not using this to attack Israel, if that's what you're asking.

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by Verto
I'm not surprised, after seeing a poll from NPR that showed 60% of German males 16-24 believed the US government carried out the 9/11 attacks.

You've got to be kidding me!

Idiots.

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by Edan


As long as People exist, there are going to be threats to world peace.

The magazine???? Wow, I didn't realize pointless gossip and celeb news was a threat to world peace.

[lord of the mark]

go look at the actual results by country, on the EU website. Some of the highest "yes" numbers for is Israel a threat come from the most pro-Israel countries, like Netherlands and Denmark. Apparently, with only countries listed, not conflict situations, and with Palestine not on the list ("its not a country") people said yes on Israel to indicate that they saw the israel-Pal conflict as a threat to peace.

Kinda what Spiffor said, i guess.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Azazel
Btw, people, lately "Israelis" has been reduced to "Azazel".

that does good to israel and peace
LOTM and Edian or whatshesname OTOH.... much harm

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by paiktis22


that does good to israel and peace
LOTM and Edian or whatshesname OTOH.... much harm

thanks, im flattered

[Ned]

Aazzell, I think you hit the nail on the head when you asked a question as to why the bulk of media in Europe is anti-Israel. I believe it is because the bulk of media in Europe has a liberal bias. As far as I know, they have no equivalent of Fox News nor they have conservative talk radio as we do here in United States. All they ever hear, read or see the constant drumbeat of anti-Israeli spin.

Now I may be completely wrong here. But am I? Is Fox News widely available in Europe? Does Europe have an equivalent of Fox News? Does Europe have conservative talk radio?

[Spiffor]

Ned:
AFAIK, there is only one Europe-wide information network, and it's called "Euronews". Euronews isn't exactly unbiased, but it seems to follow the bias of the country to which it's sending.
I mean, Euronews airs the same footage, but the comments change, as the footage is dubbed in 6 languages. For example, I could sometimes see two radically different comments on the same Israel / Palestine news item (and same footage) when switching from French to English

So, to answer your question, you have to ask on a national basis. In France, info is mostly transmitted by one of the two main general channels (the public and the private one). The biggest private general channel, TF1, has a clear right-wing bias, as it had always favored right-wing candidates during elections and during crises. There's a close 'relationship' between right-wing governments and the public works company that owns TF1
But we have no media outrageously insane, far-rightish and nationalistic like Faux News in France. There is however a fringe radio station that follows Le Pen's ideology, if you're interested.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Ned
Aazzell, I think you hit the nail on the head when you asked a question as to why the bulk of media in Europe is anti-Israel. I believe it is because the bulk of media in Europe has a liberal bias. As far as I know, they have no equivalent of Fox News nor they have conservative talk radio as we do here in United States. All they ever hear, read or see the constant drumbeat of anti-Israeli spin.

Now I may be completely wrong here. But am I? Is Fox News widely available in Europe? Does Europe have an equivalent of Fox News? Does Europe have conservative talk radio?

Actually IIRC Rupert Murdoch owns Fox News - in Europe he owns Sky (and Sky News), which happens to be the largest satellite channel across Europe. EVERYONE who has satellite or cable has Sky News, CNN etc.

So yes. You are wrong - as usual...

Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist - have you even been outside your country?

Come back when you actually know what you are talking about.

[Spiffor]

Mobius:
Does anybody outside Britain watch Sky News?

[Ned]

One of the questions is, do they get FOX News. Neither of you answered that.

Also, does Europe have talk radio? And if they do, do they somehow prevent conservatives from having shows?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
One of the questions is, do they get FOX News. Neither of you answered that.

I don't remind having ever seen Faux News in my satellite distribution, unlike CNN, ABC, MSNBC and Bloomberg. Now, I haven't looked into the availabilty of American channels in more than a year, so maybe Faux is accessible since then.

Talk radio exists. In France, there is no law that could shut up a talk radio emission, except if it calls to hate or racial hate.
However, there aren't many radios specialized in pure talk. In general, there are general radios that deature talk shows.

[Ned]

In the US, AM is virtually all news or talk radio. Music primarily appears on FM.

FYI, I really like MSNBC. It is increasingly right-wing, probably to compete with FOX News. FOX News is now #1 in all time slots in America vis-a-vis other news programs.

Also, Rush Limbaugh has a larger audience than all news programs, newspapers and news magazines by a large margin. He reaches an estimated 20 million listeners a day (IIRC). This is why the left is gunning for him and why anything he says or does is news.

It would be interesting if Rush expanded into Europe.

[Spiffor]

My bad, it was CNBC (just looked at the channels I have access through satellite).

Rush Limbaugh would have to change his ways seriously if he wants to stick in Europe. For some reason, Limbaugh is completely unknown here, whereas Michael Moore is quite famous (The Big One and Bowling For Columbine have both made it to the movies and to TV; pretty much the whole Left gloats when Moore issues a new documentary on your great society).

[Ned]

Spiffor, I will send Rush an e-mail. Perhaps he will be up to the challenge of Europe when he gets out of rehab. However, most of his show is about US politics, which may not concern many Europeans.

Still, you can get a daily dose of Rush by subscribing to his site. His programs are carried live on the internet and have archives of past shows.

[Sandman]

TV News doesn't have the same agenda in Britain as it does in America. The channels do not express political opinions. They do not have insipid celebrity commentators, nor are there conservative or liberal 'talk shows'. The audience is encouraged to make up their own mind.

The American model could not be easily imported. Nor should it.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sandman
TV News doesn't have the same agenda in Britain as it does in America. The channels do not express political opinions. They do not have insipid celebrity commentators, nor are there conservative or liberal 'talk shows'. The audience is encouraged to make up their own mind.

The American model could not be easily imported. Nor should it.

Agenda?

Sure they have an agenda. In this case, anti-Israel.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by Verto
I'm not surprised, after seeing a poll from NPR that showed 60% of German males 16-24 believed the US government carried out the 9/11 attacks.

I saw that poll too. It seems Europeans are just as likely to come up with truly stupid opinions as Americans are.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I saw that poll too. It seems Europeans are just as likely to come up with truly stupid opinions as Americans are.

It also shows that they have been fed a pack of lies by their own media.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by Spiffor
pretty much the whole Left gloats when Moore issues a new documentary on your great society).

I'd disagree that Moore has ever made a documentry. He seems to specialize in partisan political hatchet jobs though he's not the only one as both the left and the right do it.

[cinch]

(Pardon me if this has already been posted; I couldn't be arsed to read the entire thread...)

El Pais, the Spanish daily newspaper, said in an article Thursday that the Dutch, Austrians and Luxembourgers were most likely to see Israel as a "threat in the world" whereas the French were less likely.

The French were LESS likely? Looks like everyone has to find a new nationality to accuse of being overtly antisemitic.

I suggest the filthy Luxembourgers.

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by Ned
Spiffor, I will send Rush an e-mail. Perhaps he will be up to the challenge of Europe when he gets out of rehab.

That was really great.

As for Fox, it was available via Astra after 9/11. Excellent entertainment, but laughing about stupid americans wears off after a while.

As for media, there is no anti-Israeli bias in european TV news. On the other hand, there is a rabid pro Israel bias in the US news media, either out of conviction or self censorship.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
Spiffor, I will send Rush an e-mail. Perhaps he will be up to the challenge of Europe when he gets out of rehab. However, most of his show is about US politics, which may not concern many Europeans.

I've been very curious about that Limbaugh fellow in Februar, and I thoroughly read all available articles. Never again. Not only do I find the radical egoism he preaches extremely dangerous, I was also very displeased by the portrait of France he did. By that time, I assumed his show was an information show, and I didn't know it was dressed-up as entertainment.

There is room for conservative talk-radio or TV in Europe. There is an increasing demand for people who get all excited about sending junkies to prison (even in Netherlands!), for people who want to send all Immigrants in their country of origin, for people who whine on the always-too-high taxes permanently, for people who always trample on feminism, etc...

But if you're serious about writing an E-mail to Limbaugh, you should mention that he should seriously change his ways to stick in Europe:

- Be local. We don't care about America's issues as long as we can't make fun of them, or as long as we can't use them to show how barbaric/stupid your country is (examples: Gun Control, Monica Lewinsky). Especially, breaking down on the American liberals is sure to bring you nil attendance.
Also, don't try to make a Europewide show, that would be broadcast in English. Save in Britain, nobody but the educated would ever have the possibility to listen to you. And the educated are not going to waste their time listening to Rush's ramblings (save to fuel the flames they can say about the US ). Shows on national scales in the national languege are the only hope it ever works.

- Stop insulting or patronizing European countries. Rush's utter contempt for Europe and for the Europeans will not please his audience at all, if it shows. For some reason, we Europeans tend to dislike being called chicken or traitors, especially when our reasons for not backing the US (whether our country or only the public opinion rejected to back you) have nothing to do with fear.
Rush believes in the values of extreme individualism that are very American. It is extremely likely he'll promote them in his show. It's extremely likely the EuroRushShow will partly be about how we Euros should follow the great model of the great United States under the guidance of the great Bush. Such a message will never stick in Europe, because we don't like being given lessons by people who know nothing about us but stereotypes.

- If you're going to praise the conservatives, do it right for each country. For example, in France for example, there is a strong tradition of clearly separating religion and politics: don't talk about having prayers at school in your French show. Other example, you can be much more hostile to abortion in your Irish show than anywhere else.
Rush's traditional issues are generally to the far right. Remove the racism component, and Rush is perfectly compatible with Le Pen, Haider, Fortuyn... Save for the "US is great" part. Europeans are being more and more impressed by this kind of far-right crap, so there is a demand for a local Rush in every country. But Rush would have to do it right. Simply broadcasting the same show as in the US on European waves won't do the trick.

[HershOstropoler]

"But if you're serious about writing an E-mail to Limbaugh, you should mention that he should seriously change his ways to stick in Europe:"

No, if he wants to be a success he has to be the original. As for non-english countries, just subtitle him. Worked well for spitting image or Monty Python.

He'll attract a rabid rightwing fringe, maybe, but the main audience would look for entertainment value or for satisfaction of their Antiamericanism.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
He'll attract a rabid rightwing fringe

I don't think so. Some of his positions are a strict no-no for the ordinary far-right people he's aiming at. And nobody out of the far-right would listen to his crap. If Limbaugh gets broadcasted in Europe as is, I think the amount of believers will be very, very near to zero. "Fringe" doesn't begin to decribe the maybe 25 serious listeners Limbaugh will attract.

the main audience would look for entertainment value or for satisfaction of their Antiamericanism.

Sure it is Limbaugh has "America sucks" written all over his face But I doubt that's what Ned really wants

[Ned]

Spiffor, you amaze me. You actually looked into Rush Limbaugh to see what he had to say.

You should know that the pompous ego-maniac gig is a joke. He really is a very humble guy. His show mainly pokes fun at the left, and, like you say, he promotes individualism.

Obviously, Euro-bashing would not go well in Europe. I don't think he does that. But he has been critical of Chirac for obvious reasons.

On the immigration issue which seems to be driving European politics now, I have no idea what Rush position would be. After all, we are a nation built on immigration. It makes us strong. We really are not afraid of it at all. The problem we have with immigration is a federal-state issue with respect to public services mandated by the Feds but unfunded by the Feds. The states have to render these services at their own expense to all comers, including illegal aliens. The illegal aliens do not pay taxes because one needs a social security number or a IRS taxpayer ID to pay taxes in the US and only citizens can get a social security number and only legal aliens can get a taxpayer ID. As a result, border states are nearing bankruptcy, including California.

What I think Rush would harp on in Europe are the high taxes, excesssive union power and too much socialism. Rush is a free-enterprise kind of guy.

The way Rush works is through local radio stations. I think he might do his show in English and have it translated later so that those who do not speak English can enjoy the show as well.

We shall see.

[Ned]

You guys make it sound as if the European right wing are simply a pack of racists. The US right wing have nothing in common with that crowd. As you noted, Rush believes in individualism and the free market. This has nothing to do with racial issues.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
You guys make it sound as if the European right wing are simply a pack of racists. The US right wing have nothing in common with that crowd. As you noted, Rush believes in individualism and the free market. This has nothing to do with racial issues.

It's not exactly like that. From what I gather from the American conservatives, I think they have very much in common with the European far-right except the racist content.

- massive breakdown on junkies
- very strong anti-taxism
- anti-feminism
- Anti-abortion
All these topics are very common in Rush's show (from what I gather here), and they are also very common in the European far right. I'm not saying Rush is racist (actually, I think the accusations of racism on him because of the Black Quarterback are bollocks). But he and American conservatives have much in common with the European far-right. Actually, the main difference between American conservatists and European fascists is that the Yanks are no racists

But you Ned, as well as Rush, would call any reasonable right-winger in Europe a "socialist", because everybody -except a fringe of ultraliberals in the Euro meaning (free-marketers)- in the reasonable political spectrum thinks that welfare and State intervention is fundamentally good. The right wingers mostly think that it's overkill because of the new pressure that is globalization; they also believe many people abuse the system. But it doesn't make them want to apply the very American principles of "self-help" everywhere.