Artaxerxes Update-gathering ideas

[Stefan Härtel]

Hi folks. I've started thinking about an update to "Artaxerxes, the fall of the Spartan hegemony".
My basic ideas are:
-Remove bugs
-Include new graphics
-Improve/Change events
-Improve some basic map stuff

In detail:

I will remove any bugs including graphical faults.
I will include a number of new graphics, including those that were used in "Darius", but also some other brand-new ones.
About the events:
I will erase some uneccesary and irelevant events such as the satrapal revolts, and instead will include the conditions of the royal peace of 386 BC.
Now the question is: Should I make two different events files for Persians and Greeks?
The Persian events will feature inner-Persian matters, perhaps the one or other Satrapal revolt and the essentials of Greece.
The Greek events will include some neat things that decrease the possibilities for the player in the frame of the royal peace, i.e. if Athens thinks about increasing their navy, they get busted by the Persians and so on. The Greek events file will also be playable for the Carthaginians.
Now, I will stick with the one-events file because I don't really want a re-modeling of the scenario (I think it is good enough). Things such as the camel herds, nomad camps and so on will of course stay. And in general, most of the nice other things will as well.
Now, do you think I should make the scenario start in 404 BC, the year in which Artaxerxes accessed the throne, in order to include the revolt of Cyrus the Younger? This might be more fun for the Persian player because, aside from Sardeis and Daskyleion he will most propably be able to "liberate" a lot more Barbarian cities from the revolting satraps.
I will also include an accessable tech tree for both Greek and Persian player as well as some new improvements and perhaps the one or other new WoW.
I will also change the map a little to make the country a little more unhospitable. There will also be some new things to recreate the actions of Artaxerxes: The national religion and so on... More scythians, lesser units, lesser money perhaps... impossibility to bribe Barbarian and Greek cities... More sounds too.
There will also be random quotations from Xenophon's "Anabasis", Plutarchus' "Vita Artaxerxes" and other Greek author's views on the Persia of Artaxerxes II.
If anyone here has some good new ideas, you are welcome to tell me. It would also be great if one or two people would volunteer for playtesting here.

[Prometeus]

I think 404 B.C. is a cool starting point, Stefan...

[Stefan Härtel]

Oh yeah, I also got some new (colourful!) reconstructions of Persepolis, so there will be a new Persian city style!

[BeBro]

quote: Originally posted by Stefan Härtel on 11-08-2000 09:21 AM Now the question is: Should I make two different events files for Persians and Greeks?

Yes, that would be good. You can include the Greek quotations in the events for the Greeks, and the Persian quotations of course in the Persian events. So you can create a completely different atmosphere and "connect" the player better with the chosen civ.

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Civ2000

[BeBro]

Just saw your last post

Can´t wait to see the new cities. Will you also include that Greek cities from your last city collection? I mean the style with this huge temple...

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Civ2000

[Civfan]

quote: Originally posted by Stefan Härtel on 11-08-2000 04:24 PM Oh yeah, I also got some new (colourful!) reconstructions of Persepolis, so there will be a new Persian city style!

Hey Stefan, can ya send some of those pictures of Persepolis to me.... Jram@sympatico.ca


Thanks....



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Civfan (Warriorsoflight)

[BeBro]

Can you send these Persepolis pics to me, too?

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Civ2000

[Stefan Härtel]

Sorry, folks, no-can do
It's impossible to scan it because its one of those two-pagers in a small format paperback book. Even if I tried to make it as flat as possible, I would only wreck the book, which I don't want to.
I can give you examples of the tile designs in black-and white scheme drawings with a color legend, along with some b/w reconstructions (I already sent those to BeBro).
CivFan: If you want to use those for the Parthians, that is not advisable, because they had a very different architectorial style than the Achaemenid Persians. I do have some Parthian reconstructions you may want to have, and I'm working on a Parthian city style too.

quote: Can´t wait to see the new cities. Will you also include that Greek cities from your last city collection? I mean the style with this huge temple...

Yes, I will use the new Greek style, although I will change the last "walled" size a bit because I don't like the temple.
I really don't have much done yet, though, I just started the new Achaemenid style. I'll have to do more work on it though because I'm not really satisfied with the current results.

[Prometeus]

I'm actually ransacking & converting to Civ2 format Shogun Demo sounds ... do you need something particular like cavalry sounds or else?

[Stefan Härtel]

Right now I have no need for new sounds, but in case I should really need some I'll consult you, Prom.

[BeBro]

Stefan it´s clear that you don´t want to ruin the book. Can you tell me author and title?

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Civ2000

[VietMinh]

You should add the Spartan Infantry !

[Stefan Härtel]

"De la Grece a l'Orient-Alexandre le Grand" by Pierre Briant, published by Découvertes Gallimard. Only to be found at the Louvre or in French bookstores
And according to the credits list, the picture of the palace can be found only at the Parisian national library
Sorry.

[BeBro]

Hmm, that´s a pity. Somebody who helps me to plan a robbery on the Louvre?

Stefan, if you need some ancient ships or other things, my website has some ancient gfx.



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Civ2000

[Stefan Härtel]

*bump*
Still need ideas

[Prometeus]

Persepolis pictures? What part of the city are you interested in ? Do you need AoE style buildings ? Just send a PM ( I've the "Send an e-mail option" turned on ). I've a big archaeology encyclopedia... and a more bigger scanner.

[Stefan Härtel]

My new Persian style is pretty stuck. If I don't get a new great inspiration I fear I'll have to stick with those from "Darius"

quote: 1) Personally I like the idea of civ-specific event files. It does take more time to develop and you really need to playtest both sides thoroughly to ensure that everything works. The effort can be reduced by limiting the number of "new" versus "shared" events. In SoG, only 60% of the Events in each of the seven files were truly unique.

Sure, I will have only a few historical events for the Hellenes, as well as with the Persians. Most of the stuff will be the same. I have a fun idea about the Athenian-Persian relations after the Royal Peace: If the Athenians discover specific techs, like "Fleet expansion project", they'll be pulled into war with the Persians, same with the conquest of specific cities. If they do the same when the human player is Persian, it is the player's responsibility to keep an eye on the definitions of the peace

quote: 2) Dual tech trees is also a good idea. I recommend you include two rules.txt files, and change the desirability of the human-controlled techs. For example if the Greeks are the human player and the Persian AI is "civilized", the rules.txt file should set all Greek techs to AI Desirability of zero and the modifier to -2 (if the Persians are "aggressive", set the modifier to +2). Thus even if the Persians steal a Greek tech, there won't be any incentive to research further along the Greek path. Be sure to give each side a no,no tech which obsoletes all or most units of the other (to prevent Greek Immortals and Persian phalanxes).

I doubt that two rules.txt files will be necessary. There won't be too many techs to discover, and with balanced work on the civ's characters, I believe it will all work well.

quote: 3) People.gif: This really needs to differentiate between the various civs. As it is, everyone looks Egyptian. Feel free to borrow any of the ones I used for EotBA.

I will certainly use some of your people.gif guys, but if I may make a suggestion: The women in ancient Persia had the same rights as the men, and no special dress code. I can send over a couple of examples, especially for their hair styles if you want. I just always notice that they have the islamic fundamentalist veil. That is too Arabic and came to Persia only after the Arab conquest. I'll also replace Elvis with Magian priests and those Einstein guys with... well, I'm not sure yet.

quote: 4) Cities.gif: Most are OK, but there's a huge style difference between that used for the Greeks and all the others. Maybe it's just me, but I find style differences to be very disconcerting. One of the reasons (IMHO) that Nemo and Alex get such rave reviews is that the artwork in their scenarios is totally consistent. So I'd give serious consideration to replacing those Greek cities.

I have done a beautiful new Greek style based on the pics in a book a friend gave me on my birthday. I thought about leaving the same style to Athenians and Thebans, but perhaps make a unique style for Spartans and Ionians (one civ). You know, Sparta was actualy a tiny city. Before the Hellenistic age, only a few public buildings existed in Sparta itself, and there were only perhaps 5,000-10,000 real citizens (for comparrison: Athens had 20-25,000). Ionia and Syrakosai on the other hand were rich. So there will be the dirty little look for Sparta (with assurance that it won't grow too large) and the huge, rich look for the others.
As for the Persians: See above.
I'll make a new style for the Carthaginians that is for universal use.

quote: 5) Terrain Specials: I think there's quite a few you could add which are more appropriate for this era and location. For example, Olives and Copper were hugely important. As for the forest pheasant....my views are well known!

That is one of the most important points, and one of the reasons why there will soon be a Darius 2.3 version
I'll have to do a bit more research on ancient Iranian geography. I won't stick with natural ressources like figs, walnuts, roses, fruits and so, I also hope to include some agricultural ones like goats and so on. I will include a new terrain style (one? at least). Yes, this is hard hand work, I agree.


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[Kull]

A few thoughts:

1) Personally I like the idea of civ-specific event files. It does take more time to develop and you really need to playtest both sides thoroughly to ensure that everything works. The effort can be reduced by limiting the number of "new" versus "shared" events. In SoG, only 60% of the Events in each of the seven files were truly unique.

2) Dual tech trees is also a good idea. I recommend you include two rules.txt files, and change the desirability of the human-controlled techs. For example if the Greeks are the human player and the Persian AI is "civilized", the rules.txt file should set all Greek techs to AI Desirability of zero and the modifier to -2 (if the Persians are "aggressive", set the modifier to +2). Thus even if the Persians steal a Greek tech, there won't be any incentive to research further along the Greek path. Be sure to give each side a no,no tech which obsoletes all or most units of the other (to prevent Greek Immortals and Persian phalanxes).

3) People.gif: This really needs to differentiate between the various civs. As it is, everyone looks Egyptian. Feel free to borrow any of the ones I used for EotBA.

4) Cities.gif: Most are OK, but there's a huge style difference between that used for the Greeks and all the others. Maybe it's just me, but I find style differences to be very disconcerting. One of the reasons (IMHO) that Nemo and Alex get such rave reviews is that the artwork in their scenarios is totally consistent. So I'd give serious consideration to replacing those Greek cities.

5) Terrain Specials: I think there's quite a few you could add which are more appropriate for this era and location. For example, Olives and Copper were hugely important. As for the forest pheasant....my views are well known!