Thread Tools
Old November 7, 2003, 10:02   #31
Mountain Sage
PtWDG2 Cake or Death?Apolyton University
King
 
Mountain Sage's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally posted by sabrewolf
mountain sage (fellow citizen )
i think some breakaway guys got the a$$e$ kicked in MP against some sid-level-warmongers like arrian and could bare the defeat. so they changed the rules
I just don't care about the reasons, as long as the Civ3 gods made war more 'expensive' and a PP game more 'attractive'.

I just these Civ 3 gods (for now...)
__________________
The Mountain Sage of the Swiss Alps
Mountain Sage is offline  
Old November 7, 2003, 10:08   #32
Mountain Sage
PtWDG2 Cake or Death?Apolyton University
King
 
Mountain Sage's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus
Except that those Pike to Musket upgrades are going to be even more expensive now.


So what? Gold is made for spending it (at least in Civ3...) and you can upgrade units only if you have gold enough. But war is not (by far) the best way to get this gold. Therefore.... a PP game with lots of gold....
If you can't get 1'200 gold/TURN on an Emperor game at the beginning of the Industrial Age, then something is terribly wrong with your playstyle...
__________________
The Mountain Sage of the Swiss Alps
Mountain Sage is offline  
Old November 7, 2003, 14:42   #33
Ragnar_84
Settler
 
Ragnar_84's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Marin County, CA
Posts: 21
Something else to keep in mind with respect to the 40->50 turn change, military upgrade change, is something I got burned on last night playing my first Conquests game. I didn't realize one of the government changes, mainly the additional upkeep of military under the Republic. I built The Statue of Zues, researched and switched to (I'm Religous) the Republic, traded for currency and now to research Fedualism (Babs alreadly have/won't trade) or Monotheism to remain profitable it will take 50 turns to accomplish. I may build some infrastructure and switch back to despotism until I'm able to trade for Monarchy.
Ragnar_84 is offline  
Old November 7, 2003, 14:57   #34
TheArsenal
Apolyton University
Prince
 
TheArsenal's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 900
I would also imagine the change in research would reduce the obsolescence rate of many units for at a few turns more.
__________________
"Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription is ... more cow bell!"
TheArsenal is offline  
Old November 7, 2003, 15:59   #35
Yahweh Sabaoth
King
 
Yahweh Sabaoth's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Heavens
Posts: 1,167
Quote:
Originally posted by TheArsenal
I would also imagine the change in research would reduce the obsolescence rate of many units for at a few turns more.
Along these lines, it seems as though the player (at Monarch level at least) has a greater opportunity to prolong the Ancient Age, if that's what he/she wants to do.
__________________
You can't fight in here! This is the WAR room!
Yahweh Sabaoth is offline  
Old November 7, 2003, 16:40   #36
Cort Haus
PtWDG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?InterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
Cort Haus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: London
Posts: 12,012
re: Cort arguing case for not penalising defensive upgrades
Quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Sage




So what? Gold is made for spending it (at least in Civ3...) and you can upgrade units only if you have gold enough. But war is not (by far) the best way to get this gold. Therefore.... a PP game with lots of gold....
If you can't get 1'200 gold/TURN on an Emperor game at the beginning of the Industrial Age, then something is terribly wrong with your playstyle...


Well excuse me for not always reaping 1200gpt by the turn I ping Magnetism, MS I don't play huge maps, so the world economy doesn't support me that sort of income at that point. I'm surprised you let them get that close to you in economic power

Besides, why should I wait till near-Nationalism before upgrading my Pikes? I want them before they can bring on their knight divisions, let alone cav.

Gold is made for spending - on mkts and unis preferably, but in that era I like to thrash the commerce on science mainly. The double-cost upgrade is there to nerf the mass offensive upgrade which we all use so mercilessly against the AI. If, as you say, the Civ 3 gods were really smiling at us PP-ers (and they have done, it seems, to an extent), they'd limit the extra upgrade cost to offensive units. How will the poor AI upgrade it's feeble defenses now?
Cort Haus is offline  
Old November 7, 2003, 17:39   #37
Yahweh Sabaoth
King
 
Yahweh Sabaoth's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Heavens
Posts: 1,167
Re: re: Cort arguing case for not penalising defensive upgrades
Quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus
If, as you say, the Civ 3 gods were really smiling at us PP-ers (and they have done, it seems, to an extent), they'd limit the extra upgrade cost to offensive units. How will the poor AI upgrade it's feeble defenses now?
A very good point. I haven't yet had time to launch a full-scale upgrade/offensive, but I plan too, and to see if the major cost overhaul is too extreme.

I mean, I make a LOT of money in every Conquests game I play for about 10 minutes... a lot more than I did playing the same length of time in PTW... and still get a tech lead (or don't fall far behind). I think it might still be feasible.

I do worry about agressive AIs with the agricultural trait, however...
__________________
You can't fight in here! This is the WAR room!
Yahweh Sabaoth is offline  
Old November 10, 2003, 08:41   #38
Mountain Sage
PtWDG2 Cake or Death?Apolyton University
King
 
Mountain Sage's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,351
Re: re: Cort arguing case for not penalising defensive upgrades
Quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus



Well excuse me for not always reaping 1200gpt by the turn I ping Magnetism, MS I don't play huge maps, so the world economy doesn't support me that sort of income at that point. I'm surprised you let them get that close to you in economic power
this pic is just to make some people jalous. It's from Sir Ralph's game. There is a glitch in the game: I don't get any interests for Smith TC, but then the accountant has probably problems with the 5% over my 1'000 gold...
Attached Thumbnails:
Click image for larger version

Name:	gold.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	338.9 KB
ID:	57007  
__________________
The Mountain Sage of the Swiss Alps
Mountain Sage is offline  
Old November 10, 2003, 11:05   #39
nuther
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 11:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 34
I had a game going that was very similar to the screen shot above. It just goes to show what you can do with germany, or any other scientific civ. They can make tons of cash and keep many people happy through tech trading.
nuther is offline  
Old November 10, 2003, 11:15   #40
sabrewolf
Civilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMApolyton UniversityIron CiversCivilization IV CreatorsC3CDG Desolation RowCivilization IV PBEMCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Emperor
 
sabrewolf's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: turicum, helvetistan
Posts: 9,852
MS, how many cities have you got? and are you researching every tech at 4 turns/tech? and which difficulty and world size?

i guess best trait combo for your economic power would be commercial & scientific (so korea and greece). surprisingly, the AI tends to handle these civs quite well.

personally, i think scientific is too weak... the advantages are too small in comparison to other traits and the effect only kicks in late ancient, early medieval ages. by then you're either going to win anyway or your hopelessly behind
but for c3c it might be worth a try. scientific great leaders appear more often, so a to be the first to every tech is a quite appreciable situation
__________________
- Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity
- Atheism is a nonprophet organization.
sabrewolf is offline  
Old November 10, 2003, 14:28   #41
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
MS SMiths does not give you 5%, you have to build Wall Street. That requires at least 5 banks.
vmxa1 is offline  
Old November 10, 2003, 15:07   #42
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
Yep, the glitch is in your memory, not the game.

Also, the 5% is capped at a maximum of 50 gold/turn.

Quote:
Gold is made for spending it
So what are you sitting on 14798 gold for? Surely you can spend a bunch of that.

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old November 10, 2003, 16:23   #43
alva
Civilization III PBEMPtWDG2 Cake or Death?PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
alva's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
Quote:
give you 5%, you have to build Wall Street. That requires at least 5 banks.
Wasn't that changed in PTW? Don't you need 5 trademarkets? (or whatever it is called)
-
Quote:
So what are you sitting on 14798 gold for? Surely you can spend a bunch of that.
My idea exactly, I hardly ever have more then a 1000 in the bank. Rush...rush...rush !!!!
__________________
#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
alva is offline  
Old November 10, 2003, 17:28   #44
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
Yes it changed to stock markets.
vmxa1 is offline  
Old November 11, 2003, 01:07   #45
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
Quote:
My idea exactly, I hardly ever have more then a 1000 in the bank. Rush...rush...rush !!!!
I'm too lazy to rush-build
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Kuciwalker is offline  
Old November 11, 2003, 07:57   #46
Mountain Sage
PtWDG2 Cake or Death?Apolyton University
King
 
Mountain Sage's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,351
Replies to everybody (including my fellow citizen):

You're right: the glitch is in my head: Smith TC pays for all trade-related city improvements. By now, I have Wall Street.

This is Sir Ralph's game (his thread 'By By PTW'): Huge, Emperor, Germany, continents, 24 civs.

The militaristic and scientific traits are irrelevant in this game. I could have afforded to pay all my barracks and harbours 100% of their price without putting a dent in my stockpile of gold (BTW, I don't have Sun Tsu, I only have Leo). As for a free tech each Age, I already had a 2 techs advance by the end of the Ancient Times.

My income is the direct consequence of 'clever' trading and building all gold-bringing improvements.
If only I had the French or Carthage ...

I have now about 40 cities (should count them one day) because I got 3 Russian cities (declared war and expanded a bit south) and conquered all of England in 2 wars (they declared war 2 times).

I am researching at 6 round/tech (the min. in this game is 5 round).

I sit on all this cash (by now I have about 48'000 gold) just because:

1. I still trade every 2-3 turns and milk all other civs dry (just to keep practice, that is).
2. I have a not-too-large military (108 Cavalry 1 + 1 Infantry/city).
3. I'd like to top my previous record of gold before I finish the game.
4. I can't rush anything else. My core cities are building cavalry, which is disbanded in my fringe cities. If I were to rush improvements in my fringe cities, I'd had to put my core cities on wealth...

No 2 civ is (was) England and no 3 is (still) Spain (all on my continent, which includes Rome (pitiful), the Celts (lost a war with the English, down to 1 island, Russia (average) and Carthage (I think, long gone). For once the the AI managed to play these 2 civs very well.

I hope to finish this game by next Monday, so I'll post mome pics and comments on my 'Emperor games' thread.
__________________
The Mountain Sage of the Swiss Alps
Mountain Sage is offline  
Old November 11, 2003, 09:51   #47
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
Ok, back to the original topic of the thread: 50-turn techs.

I played a game as the Maya last night until nearly the end of the middle ages. I did research 1 tech at 50-turn pace: Republic.

I researched something (the wheel?) off the bat for trading, and then went straight for philosophy. I chose CoL as my free tech, and then chose Republic, at 10%. I was still easily first to it, and my gold reserves came in handy for a few rushbought temples and 12 warrior -> medieval infantry upgrades.

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old November 11, 2003, 10:21   #48
Cookie Monster
King
 
Cookie Monster's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 1,310
Quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
... figuring that I'll be popping lots of huts and the one tech I DO NOT want is Horseback Riding.
-Arrian
Arrian,

Just curious, why don't you want Horseback riding at that point in the game? I play monarch as well.
__________________
signature not visible until patch comes out.
Cookie Monster is offline  
Old November 11, 2003, 10:34   #49
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
I typically avoid HBR as long as I can, for two reasons:

1) so I can built 20-shield chariots for upgrade; and
2) because HBR doesn't cost much to research, and so when I do want it, I can typically pound it out fast.

With the upgrade cost change in Conquests (3g/shield instead of 2g/shield), I may ponder the usefulness of a mass chariot->horse upgrade. In my first C3C game, I didn't do it, but that was primarly because I had a LOT of REXing to do before I got anywhere near horses (let alone iron!! It was half a continent away!).

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old November 11, 2003, 13:05   #50
Cookie Monster
King
 
Cookie Monster's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 1,310
Oh I see thanks for the answer. Have to give that a try but at the new cost we'll have to see if it's worth it.

BTW check out my post in the "Changes to the AI" thread under conquests. I had a similiar experience regarding hard to get resources.
__________________
signature not visible until patch comes out.
Cookie Monster is offline  
Old November 12, 2003, 09:06   #51
jshelr
Civilization III PBEMIron CiversC3CDG Ankh-Morpork
Emperor
 
jshelr's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: pittsburgh
Posts: 4,132
Alexman wrote: "It's looking as if research in the Ancient age is back! I can't wait to receive my copy of C3C."

He's right. The 50-turn limit favours the AI in the ancient era powerfully and they now demand big bucks for formerly cheap techs. So, the turn research down and buy techs strat looks relatively unwise, based on a couple of games. Damn. I'll have to learn some new tricks.
jshelr is offline  
Old November 12, 2003, 13:32   #52
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
It sure seems to require you to at least blast for one or two techs.
I played two ages yesterday and only the first tech I researched, was I first to learn. I never figured out why. I was the largest, seemed to have 1 or 2 techs more than anyone, got nearly all of the wonders? I got to the point were I have Copernicus and Nweton, universities and libs in most cities and still was never awarded a tech for being first? After I got Steam, I checked all the civs and none had any techs I did not have and I have at least one that they did not have, but I was not awarded a break though tech.

I figured in the ancient age, they may have had contacts that I did not, but after I had all contact ????
I can only presume that the scientific civs all got a different tech and traded it around. No science leader of course, but that was expected. I delibertly did not try to pick techs that would be unlikely to be chosen by the AI, I just took what made sense to me.
vmxa1 is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:51.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team