Everything That Has A Beginning Has An End: Matrix Spoiler Thread.

Provost Harrison · November 5, 2003, 19:15

Well there you go, that is that resolved. I think I feel vindicated that pretty much what I thought was going on is true. But when you think about it, has the cycle being broken? Smith has been returned to the source, along with Neo, and a fragile peace has been forged. But to me, the power still seems to lie decisively with the machines. Will they renege on their agreement with Neo or will some kind of new order be forged?

Go on, discuss away...you know you want to...

Bereta_Eder · November 5, 2003, 19:19

oh great perhaps we are twins

Bereta_Eder · November 5, 2003, 19:31

Ok this thread is 2 minutes earlier than mine so i think it can stay and the other can be closed.

here is what I've written in the other

OK. We have seen it

Now questions: I've read somewhere a theory (before the film came out) that Zion itself and the "real" world was just a second level matrix. That it wasn't real either. Anyway, too long to explain but the point is that that theory was proven wrong.

Now.
What went "differently" and brought up this change in the succession of the one? Why this Zion (the 6th?) and this Neo altered the course of what was programmed to be created and eliminated.

Obviously there is just one answer and that is: Agent smith. The virus. This was an aunstable parameter that obviously didn't exist at the previous successions of "Zion" and the "One".

So in logical advancement the one precise instant which altered the course of "tolerated and programmed" creation of "ones" and "zions" was the moment Neo entered the body of agent smith at Matrix 1.

Thus smith copied/absorbed elements from Neo such as the "expansion" procedure of the human species (he said so himself). And then acted upon it.

Discuss! (generally not only on this)

Bereta_Eder · November 5, 2003, 19:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Well there you go, that is that resolved. I think I feel vindicated that pretty much what I thought was going on is true. But when you think about it, has the cycle being broken? Smith has been returned to the source, along with Neo, and a fragile peace has been forged. But to me, the power still seems to lie decisively with the machines. Will they renege on their agreement with Neo or will some kind of new order be forged?

Go on, discuss away...you know you want to...

well what I found a bit faulty(!) is that code of honour of the machines. yeah we cut you a deal and we're going to stick with it. and why? because we are not humans?... of course we have the power to crush you completely but we won't. that's how cute we are.

Provost Harrison · November 5, 2003, 19:39

Yeah, well you would have thought the computers would be more calculating than that...use Neo, destroy Smith, complete the destruction of Zion, reboot, and reseed Zion...

Provost Harrison · November 5, 2003, 19:40

Is there only me and you who have seen it so far paiktis?

Bereta_Eder · November 5, 2003, 19:41

yep, and they also gave a pledge to free from the matrix all those who wanted to get freed?!?! this is a bit too much I think.

Provost Harrison · November 5, 2003, 19:43

Won't all those people disappearing cause a bit of a problem, or will they some how be written out of the matrix?

Bereta_Eder · November 5, 2003, 19:53

that's another question (for example you'd have to re program the lives of all those associated with those who will chose to leave etc)

but also this is a great giveaway to the humans. and the machines gave that away in the precise moment when they had everything they wanted and they were all powerful. and the program could reboot exactly as they have done so far - doesnt really click.

the only possible explanation is for the machines to realize (after the agent smith incident (!) that they would rather voluntarily excile all the malcontents as a way (if this can be it) to not have to restart the "one" and the "zion" program. the malconents will simply be excused. but still why? not to mention the loss of all those batteries

also not to mention the oracle's "warning": "peace for as long as it lasts" not what the machines would want to risk perhaps

Sandman · November 5, 2003, 20:32

It just didn't grab me. It's telling that the character that I hooked onto most was that cardboard cutout robot commander guy, whilst the other characters were just plain empty. The spectacle was engaging, but the substance wasn't there.

A LOT of the characters were simply skipped over. The Merovingian and Persephone; who were they? Why were they in the Matrix? Did the Merovingian serve any purpose other than be a 'spare' bad guy? What happened to them? Where were the exceedingly cool Twins from Reloaded? How did Seriph, Trinity and Morpheus get away from him? What happened to the Merovingian when Agent Smith took over the Matrix?

Morpheus hardly played any role in the film. Wasn't he in the least bit concerned about Trinity, his protoge and friend? Still, at least he wasn't hamming it up as usual. And what about the love triangle between him, Niobe and Lock? Why did they spend so much exposition on that when, in the end, it wasn't resolved?

Trinity. She died. In a bumpy landing. Why? It made Neo saving her at the end of Reloaded pointless, and it was a pathetic end for her character. Half the film is a bumpy landing, for God's sake. I had always liked her character, but I just didn't care when she died. Perhaps it was because neither Neo nor her seemed to give a damn that she was dying; at odds with her character; she was always a fighter, desperate to survive.

God, I could go on and on. But I'll stop here, for now.

Bereta_Eder · November 5, 2003, 20:45

well ok trinity could have died a thousand times before, now she actually did. vivere pericolozamente and all that.

according to a theory frenchmen was a previous neo. who was offered a getaway after the desrtuction of zion since he chose for him and trinity (persephone) to live.

the ghosts were programs gone bad.

how they escaped the mergovian can be seen as: if you dont take us out of here we kill you.

these are just answers on top of my head, so take them for what's worth

Bereta_Eder · November 5, 2003, 20:59

also it was not pointless that neo saved trinity. after he went blind he couldnt drive the ship. she could.

morpheus doesnt really need a role in 3: he just needs to have that awe-filled look when theres anything invloving nEo - alllll the money

Zylka · November 5, 2003, 21:16

THRILLING

Koyaanisqatsi · November 6, 2003, 01:47

That was really, really horrible. I mean, really. Bad. I don't know where to begin. I guess I won't, really...other than one brief comment about the end. Yes, we got the idea that Neo was Jesus...they weren't exactly subtle about it. But come on...they put a crucifix on the arm of Link's wife (it was scratched in such a way it formed a perfect crucifix)! Because you never know how dumb the audience is, I guess, just have to really drive the point home with a 40lb sledge.

*sigh* So much potential...

Solly · November 6, 2003, 07:21

I never watched any Matrix thing, it all sounded so geeky sci-fi pseduo-intellectual that I knew I would just laugh at the pretentiousness of it all.

Provost Harrison · November 6, 2003, 07:50

You never watch anything though Stew...you lack soul

laurentius · November 6, 2003, 08:13

Quote:

From BBC:

So many people, after watching the original Matrix, wanted the second and third films looking to findanswers to spiritual and religious questions that they felt the first film offered up. They forget that the primary function of the films are as entertainment, not as an answer to the hollow feelings they have inside, answers that neither their own religion or materialistic lifestyles are not providing them- as the two latest films are suggesting - there are no answers to the big questions.

We should celebrate the fact that the filmakers are trying to create a world and the films do have ideas and great action - some other films insult your intelligence. Just enjoy the ride, stop worrying about desired effects on your soul.
Michael,UK

This sums up my feelings

BUT good points there paiktis, sandman and harrison

laurentius · November 6, 2003, 08:20

Did you notice btw that the button seraph, morpheus and trinity pushed in the elevater was "Hell"

It was quite obvious that the frenchman was the satan and that they went to the underworld (latex and leather aaaw, scarrry) to strike a deal with the devil himself

Solly · November 6, 2003, 08:23

Quote:

You never watch anything though Stew...you lack soul

I do. Emmerdale, Coronation Street and Eastenders.

rixxe · November 6, 2003, 08:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Park Avenue
I never watched any Matrix thing, it all sounded so geeky sci-fi pseduo-intellectual that I knew I would just laugh at the pretentiousness of it all.

pseudo-intellectual, you said it..

I read a comment from a matrix fan in today's newspaper saying that this movie raises some philosophical questions...

laurentius · November 6, 2003, 09:18

Actually Matrix DOES raise many philosophical questions. There was an intresting article in the biggest newspares in here, where two very respected finnish philosophers were asked to analyse the Matrix. They found tons of questions...

Sava · November 6, 2003, 10:33

wow... with all this controversy, I'm looking forward to seeing the movie...

eye candy action and sci-fi special effects satisfy me... I'm not looking for story here... it sounds as if I will like it...

Q Classic · November 6, 2003, 10:44

do those power-walkers look less like cg than they did in reloaded?

and do we see that minority report docking interface thing again?

Provost Harrison · November 6, 2003, 10:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Park Avenue

I do. Emmerdale, Coronation Street and Eastenders.

I sincerely hope you are sh*tting me, you watch soap operas? Perhaps this doesn't point at a lack of soul, but a complete quadruple taste bypass

Solly · November 6, 2003, 12:46

Well, not tonight cos Liverpool are on and we've voted to watch that.

Koyaanisqatsi · November 6, 2003, 13:35

Quote:

From BBC:

So many people, after watching the original Matrix, wanted the second and third films looking to findanswers to spiritual and religious questions that they felt the first film offered up. They forget that the primary function of the films are as entertainment, not as an answer to the hollow feelings they have inside, answers that neither their own religion or materialistic lifestyles are not providing them- as the two latest films are suggesting - there are no answers to the big questions.

We should celebrate the fact that the filmakers are trying to create a world and the films do have ideas and great action - some other films insult your intelligence. Just enjoy the ride, stop worrying about desired effects on your soul.
Michael,UK

Fine, then tell the story rather than completely abandoning the premise of the first Matrix movie and turning into Jesus Christ Marvel Hero.

David Floyd · November 6, 2003, 14:52

I wish the Merovingian had been better explained.

Provost Harrison · November 6, 2003, 16:14

He is just a trafficker of information...the head of the underworld, a program in a position of not inconsiderable power in the matrix...

Provost Harrison · November 6, 2003, 16:16

I don't think there is much else to say about him that he has moved to the matrix and is an errant program like Smith...

Bereta_Eder · November 6, 2003, 16:23

If you listen to what Persephone says in the 2nd Matrix, it comes forth that The Mergovian (I always mess up the spelling) and Persephone were VERY similar to Neo and Trinity. That in combination with the Architectes speech which has not been proven false about several "ones" in previous versions of the Matrix can make you think the the frenchman was a previous nEo which, has chosen the path to save trinity (persephone) (and exist into the next instalment of the matrix program) and himself and doom zion.