November 5, 2003, 19:41
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#1
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Settler
Local Time: 12:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Spain
Posts: 22
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What's the best UU now?
My bet goes for Conquistadores! Avaliable with Astronomy and with no map trading until Navigation, they are REALLY useful now!
Now you have an increased chance to have them before the enemy has pikemen. Just unload some of them in a new continent with civilizations not very advanced in science and see the results...
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November 5, 2003, 19:54
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#2
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King
Local Time: 13:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,333
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Why not beeline for cavs and use them instead??
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November 5, 2003, 19:57
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#3
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Emperor
Local Time: 06:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Maryland Heights, MO
Posts: 6,188
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Hum, good point on less advanced enemys: The major way to catch up with techs if you weren't the first to discover the other contientant was to buy the cheapest contact from the player who did for your WM, then use that contact for tech, WM, or contact trading.
This postponement to the middle age (combined with max research time now 50 turns) delays all those tactics, grealy helping out the Conquistador.
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November 5, 2003, 19:59
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#4
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Deity
Local Time: 13:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
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I think the Gaellic swordsman is a darn good contender.
Pre-C3C I would say Siphahi (loooong life-span and very effective in SP games.  )
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November 5, 2003, 21:59
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#5
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Chieftain
Local Time: 06:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 36
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Blitzing Cossack.
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November 5, 2003, 22:19
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#6
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Prince
Local Time: 05:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: St. Louis, USA
Posts: 303
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Novaya Havoc
Blitzing Cossack.
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I was tempted to say blitzing cossack but often they're going to take too much damage on the first attack to be used more than once per turn.
The Immortal is still #1.
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November 5, 2003, 22:20
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#7
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Deity
Local Time: 07:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
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I don't know about best, but I was all set to like the Enkidu. till I realized it would be GA before you put your boots on. It would have been fun rush with it I suspect.
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November 5, 2003, 23:05
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#8
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Emperor
Local Time: 07:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
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Gallic or Cossack.
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And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
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November 6, 2003, 00:04
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#9
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Deity
Local Time: 07:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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I like Berserks.
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[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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November 6, 2003, 00:15
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#10
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King
Local Time: 04:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California - SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,120
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What about Mayan Jav Throwers? I have no experience and so won't express an opinion -- but I am intrigued by the enslavement capability and would think that the opportunity for several extra slave workers in an ancient archer rush would be powerful (albeit less so with an industrious civ).
Blitzing cossacks make the mouth water however . . .
Catt
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November 6, 2003, 00:32
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#11
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Deity
Local Time: 07:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Aren't the Mayans only in one of the scenarios?
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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November 6, 2003, 00:40
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#12
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Emperor
Local Time: 07:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Catt
What about Mayan Jav Throwers? I have no experience and so won't express an opinion -- but I am intrigued by the enslavement capability and would think that the opportunity for several extra slave workers in an ancient archer rush would be powerful (albeit less so with an industrious civ).
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1. Javelineers cost 30 Shields.
2. Enslavement is a 1 in 3 chance.
I'm not saying it's a bad UU, just that it takes some work to shine.
Dominae
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
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November 6, 2003, 00:48
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#13
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,468
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It doesn't seem to good after all
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November 6, 2003, 01:29
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#14
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King
Local Time: 04:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California - SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,120
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Dominae
1. Javelineers cost 30 Shields.
2. Enslavement is a 1 in 3 chance.
I'm not saying it's a bad UU, just that it takes some work to shine.
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Yes, I can see your points. Only a ways into my initial game, but the %$#@! 30 shield cost is painful. Combined with the lack of cheap barracks (no militaristic) I despair at building a powerful Jav Thrower force for a mid / late ancient age war. OTOH, I've only killed two barbs and have enslaved one barbarian worker (enslavement works against barbs!), and there are a lot of enemy regular warriors running around which seem to have "enslaved worker" tatoo-ed on their chests.
Silly side-note: I beelined to Math for the Zeus wonder (and free ancient cavs) without remembering that I need ivory to build the wonder -- ivory is not yet seen anywhere and my continent-mates are not building the wonder, so I have a palace pre-build working towards who-knows-what.
Second silly side-note: With the Portuguese, Incas, and Rome on my continent, I was the third civ to discover Mathematics (and ivory is as yet unknown on our landmass) -- so either a hut gave Math or the AI civs are hot and heavy after Math in C3C.
Catt
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November 6, 2003, 01:44
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#15
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King
Local Time: 07:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Toronto, UnAmerica
Posts: 2,806
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Catt
What about Mayan Jav Throwers? I have no experience and so won't express an opinion -- but I am intrigued by the enslavement capability and would think that the opportunity for several extra slave workers in an ancient archer rush would be powerful (albeit less so with an industrious civ).
Catt
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I can't recall the Mayan's civ traits offhand, but I would say that industrious would boost the value of an enslavement rush. You're getting a lot more from each worker you capture.
I'm going to have to give the Mayan's a try, the sheer fun-factor potential of the Jav thrower is awesome.
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November 6, 2003, 03:53
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#16
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Deity
Local Time: 07:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
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I sort of headed for Math as well and found most seemed to have it about the same time as I did, even the ones I found isolated. I have those funny boats that seem impervious to sea tiles and are available so early, they caught me unaware. I checked on one city and it was already making them. So I get fast contacts.
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November 6, 2003, 05:45
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#17
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Local Time: 13:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
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I play with similar rules for a long time, and there is often a big tech gap between advanced and backward Civs in my games. Bu even then, Conquistadores aren't that great to conquer fledgling Civs. The 3 attack and 2 defense make them vulnerable even to low tech opponents like Archers, Spearmen, or Horsemen.
For the same price, knights do the job much better
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Last edited by Spiffor; November 6, 2003 at 06:57.
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November 6, 2003, 06:32
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#18
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King
Local Time: 06:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Right down the road
Posts: 2,321
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I still like the Sipahi for raw power. An Army of them is a truly awesome force.
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November 6, 2003, 07:29
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#19
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Emperor
Local Time: 06:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: of the Free World
Posts: 7,296
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On the right map, that new English Man-O-War certainly isn't the BEST UU in the world, but it's certainly no longer a dog, either. On the right map, that thing rocks, especially since the obsolescence brought by ironclads is no longer either certain or near immediate.
When you combine this with the fact that the English are now Seafaring and Commercial (which is one hell of a powerful commerce upgrade), the English are definately in the running for being a much better civ, especially on archipelago maps.
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November 6, 2003, 08:07
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#20
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Prince
Local Time: 12:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Antwerp (the pearl of Flanders) Belgium
Posts: 444
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Catt
Yes, I can see your points. Only a ways into my initial game, but the %$#@! 30 shield cost is painful. Combined with the lack of cheap barracks (no militaristic) I despair at building a powerful Jav Thrower force for a mid / late ancient age war. OTOH, I've only killed two barbs and have enslaved one barbarian worker (enslavement works against barbs!), and there are a lot of enemy regular warriors running around which seem to have "enslaved worker" tatoo-ed on their chests.
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Catt
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Enslaving barbarians? Now THAT seems powerful: no triggering og golden age, experiencing mil promotions, razing camps and most importantly: free workers.
And we all now -in normal game situations- there is never a shortage on barbarians.
AJ
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November 6, 2003, 11:22
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#21
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Prince
Local Time: 20:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 420
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Don't forget the biggest advantage of enslaving barbs: no diplomatic penalty for having barbarian slaves! Taking slaves from an AI empire makes them hate you, but barbs are outside the diplomatic model, so you get no penalty! I am pretty sure that the guys at Firaxis are going to realize that Barbarian Enslavement is an exploit and will probably remove it in a patch.
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Those who live by the sword...get shot by those who live by the gun.
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November 6, 2003, 12:03
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#22
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King
Local Time: 11:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Heavens
Posts: 1,167
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It's not a UU really, but I'd say the little boat (curragh? carrack?) is hands down the best new unit in the game.
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November 6, 2003, 12:46
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#23
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Prince
Local Time: 06:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Washington, DC, US
Posts: 548
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Dominae
Gallic or Cossack.
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Agreed, IMO Gallic rocks. I just miss the old Celt traits and won't them that much now.
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November 6, 2003, 13:13
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#24
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Warlord
Local Time: 06:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Posts: 266
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ijuin
Don't forget the biggest advantage of enslaving barbs: no diplomatic penalty for having barbarian slaves! Taking slaves from an AI empire makes them hate you, but barbs are outside the diplomatic model, so you get no penalty! I am pretty sure that the guys at Firaxis are going to realize that Barbarian Enslavement is an exploit and will probably remove it in a patch.
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Nah. Those barb slaves work sooooooo sloooooow. Plus, it's only a 1 in 3 chance anyway.
Motown
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November 6, 2003, 13:36
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#25
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King
Local Time: 12:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Scio Me Nihil Scire
Posts: 2,532
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Gallic kicks ass. and their traits are killer too. They're far better than the PTW Celts, for sure.
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Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit
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November 6, 2003, 14:11
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#26
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Warlord
Local Time: 11:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: South-East France
Posts: 124
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Argghhhhhh !!! I want Conquests !
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November 6, 2003, 15:32
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#27
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Deity
Local Time: 07:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
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I'd definitely like to check out the new 40-shield Gallic under the new 3g-per-shield upgrade cost system before saying for sure, but I still think Riders will be tough to top.
-Arrian
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November 6, 2003, 15:43
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#28
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Warlord
Local Time: 06:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Posts: 266
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Arrian
I'd definitely like to check out the new 40-shield Gallic under the new 3g-per-shield upgrade cost system before saying for sure, but I still think Riders will be tough to top.
-Arrian
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I played a MP game last night and it was 1.5g-per-shield. Is this a difference between SP and MP?
Motown
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November 6, 2003, 15:50
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#29
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Deity
Local Time: 07:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
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Hmm?
Warrior = 10 shields
GS = 40 shields
30 shields difference. In PTW, the cost of upgrading a 10-shield unit to a 40-shield unit was 60 gold (2g * 30 shields). With Leonardos it was 30 gold, obviously.
I read somewhere that upgrade cost in Conquest was increased, such that upgrading a warrior to a Gallic would cost 90 gold (3g * 30 shields).
Would accelerated production have something to do with it?
-Arrian
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grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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November 6, 2003, 16:04
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#30
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Posts: 4,223
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Accelerated production is turned on by default for all MP Conquest scenarios (confirmed in the party chat the other day), so that would account for it.
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