Atari Reports Losses - Page 3

Vince278 · December 10, 2003, 02:22

Quote:

Originally posted by mrmitchell

I meant their attention span or seriousness was too small to keep up the list of French products and how to avoid them. Not that it was impossible to get by without lovely French inventions like...uh...damn.

The only thing that comes to my mind is that the French invented manned flight (by hot air balloon @1770's). Otherwise, I'm drawing a blank.

CharlesBHoff · December 10, 2003, 05:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Thriller
Skywalker.....having read his latest few posts, I would have to agree with you - he is a moron and stark raving mad to boot.

Shogun - gee, you know who your friends are here! We've never even met and you're telling our mafia friend CharlesBHoff aka Jimmy Hoffa to whack me!!! Oh well, wait till I meet you in multiplay! (if I ever work out how to use AND have the time to commit without having to pull out half way through!)

Cleaning money was sersious for any orgin crime. It was done by outsider with no criminal record(major crime, not you got parking ticket afew time) use what they call in the spy bussience dead letter drop an go in between. The person who the cleaning knew top level people in the money tranfer department whom ok's where need and plus they knew how to answer the question being ask about the money. They have contact in hight place who where well pay to help in the
cleaning procruess. They went to Swiss Bank with the poper forms complete to do than wire transfer of the money to than swiss bank account in the name of than cut-out with no criminal record who was paid to be the owner of that money for awhile. They did as many as ten wask cycles moveing the money to than other nation or swiss bank. At that time many nation share alist of orginate crime figure with each other which was pass on to
public banks. Only once did than small crime figure try to do
it himself an found out the hard way how tought it was to do. Even swiss bank will queston than person who want to
make than large cash despot in they bank just to meet certain mortal and legal standard. Bank can question any amount of money being despot in they bank, if I was than Italyian bussienman or woman to want to open than account for than few thousand dollar I only need to say that I want to do bussien with Swiss Companies I than traveling an want to have than current account(like america checking account) so I donot have to carry all that money around an that would saturity the bank moral and legal standard.

CharlesBHoff · December 10, 2003, 05:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Vince278

The only thing that comes to my mind is that the French invented manned flight (by hot air balloon @1770's). Otherwise, I'm drawing a blank.

The French invert the first motor vehilcle around 1790's that ran on than steam engine with 4 wheels no tracks so it was not than rail road. I only went round 3 to 5 miles/hour and it only last 10 minutes before it have the first motor vehicel accient when it hit than tree.

CharlesBHoff · December 10, 2003, 05:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Okay, I just scratched taxi cab company off my list of companies I planned to invest in.

Honestly, if I can extrapolate and extracate something meaningful from the CharlesBHoff postings.... is the bottom line message in the postings the concept that a company can use assets, investments, losses, etc in a manner to show a financial "loss" when actually they are a solvent company? I'm willing to wager that everyone on the board knows that...

This is a debate about depreciation, asset valuation and tax loopholes???

Any bussien that deal with than lots of cash donot report all
cash to the IRS or any government authority anywhere. Let say you as than person make 1 million dollar ayear and you help than old lady one weekend cut her lawn and aweek later she give you 10 dollar in cash are you going report it to IRS or any government authority.

CharlesBHoff · December 10, 2003, 05:25

This french company will be in bussien than lot long than SCO
which is sueing IBM for copyright infimate in the Limox OS case. The federal judge gave SCO 30 days to put up or shut up by giveing IBM lawyer the proof they ask for in legal discover.

Paddy · December 11, 2003, 22:03

opps

Theseus · December 12, 2003, 02:26

CBH, I have to say, I really do not know what you are going on about, not do I understand most of what you post.

I do not mean this in a flaming way... you seem to have some strong viewpoints, and I'd like to respond in a meaningful way, but I really do not know how to do so. Are you a non-native-English speaker?

Two more things:

* I really do know quite a bit about the state of multinational businesses in the world today. French companies (and Italian, but that is an *entirely* different story

) are for the most part a mess these days... I don't know why one would highlight them in a generally positive regard.

* In general, we like to keep the forums on topic... in this case, Civ3 and its extensions.

CharlesBHoff · December 13, 2003, 11:58

Atari will still be in bussien alot longer than some america think. First alot of people in El Paso ignore the MaxisNew.com
boy of French good. Alot of El Paso along with out House represt thought the desivion of our Congress to rename French fry freedom fry absolute funny than laughtable in El Paso we still called then French Fry. Alot of NM town are passing resoul against the Partot Act which is takeing away alot of our freedom under the Bill of Right . First in El Paso the Christian Fundie are than min group in El Paso compare to the rest of Texas and the South.

Kuciwalker · December 13, 2003, 15:27

Please at least make your posts slightly comprehensible.

Shogun Gunner · December 13, 2003, 16:31

CMH: You are one serious stream of consciousness dude. The problem is that your posts are always slightly (or completely) off topic. I understand the words you are using and have no idea what you are saying.

CharlesBHoff · December 13, 2003, 23:08

Well Atari isnot going to be than other Enron, Global Crossing which are almost dead America company. Enron went from 98 dollar ashare all the way down to less than 1 dollar ashare stock. I would like to have than enought money to go to french to ride they hight speed train that goes 268 mph, then to germany and japon to ride they hight speed train. The French Railroad is well run I hear compare to America railroad system.

mrmitchell · December 14, 2003, 01:12

Whoah, buddy, slow down! Say it in plain English so us guys without PhDs can understand.

Shogun Gunner · December 14, 2003, 02:43

I guess on-topic is too much to ask for

Vince278 · December 14, 2003, 03:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
CharlesBHof

Cut the OTF discussion... Next time I see you pull a stunt like this in an On Topic thread, you're toast!

This was last month in this very thread. Ming is either being uncharacteristically kind or he is currently on vacation.
CBH: I join the call to stay on topic. You have alot of material for starting threads in the OT Forum. I'm sure they'll be glad to have you there.

CharlesBHoff · December 14, 2003, 04:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Vince278

This was last month in this very thread. Ming is either being uncharacteristically kind or he is currently on vacation.
CBH: I join the call to stay on topic. You have alot of material for starting threads in the OT Forum. I'm sure they'll be glad to have you there.

I was on topic in away that Atari isnot going to be than other Enron which was than new company that was I believe rated
8 th on the DOW 500. The company used every loose accounting rules to help it grow. It look great in the 1990;s as it didnot own any oil wells, gases wells or powerplants it was than energry tradeing company. It got in touble as it have no real asset to buffer it when thing went wrong. Than Oil company still have oill wells and gases wells which is worth something than also make than income. Enron is basely than worthless company right now. Atari make computer games and other products which bring in a steady income, which is going thought than bad quater or quather's like any indrustry does. Atari also own copyrights on games along with trademarks which have than value. There are other Energy companies doing quietr
well now income wise that own oill wells, gases wells and powerplants, these asset do have than overhead that you need money to maintrian then and to upgrade then. Enron advantage in the 1990's was it didnot have that overhead
expences which make it look better in the earning department, when conditson change as they will the lacked of these asset hurt enron. The other energy companies where able to borrow money useing these asset to secured the loan. Enron when it needed money have no just assets to secured than loan. The accounting
problem they have didnot help matter at all as they deal the death blow to Enron.

Shogun Gunner · December 14, 2003, 11:50

CMH: That comparison doesn't hold water.

Many modern companies are totally serviced oriented or deal in "information" and not assets. In a loose definition, I would put Enron and Atari in the same category. Neither own oil wells or assets (with the additional benefit of low overhead as you point out). Additionally, as you suggest in your post, companies with large cap assets is a way for a company to have something to fall back on.

If people hate every software program released by Atari, Atari's financial performance will sink like a heavy stone just like Enron did. The only thing Atari "owns" would be copyrights, trademarks, etc. to software programs (unless they have diversified into other industries - I don't really know that). Enron had contracts, financial relationships, etc. Both are paper assets. The difference is that Atari, or the companies it bought, have produced software which people like - which the consumer or investor has confidence in.

Obviously, people lost confidence in Enron, for very good reason. Stock price is a crude indicator of confidence, due to investor evaluation of the company - and it fell from record highs to worthless very quickly. The problem with Enron was illegal activities, false reporting, etc. which distorted the true financial view of the company. This is what distorted an investor's evaluation of the strength of Enron.

I believe reviewing Theseus' posts would be worthwhile. He works in that industry after all. But even a step further back would worthwhile... the reason for this thread is to discuss the future of the Civilization franchise in light of Atari's financial performance. Strong company + strong demand for Civ games = new, full featured Civ 4. I believe that is the line of this discussion.

Not trying to be funny, but talking about French and Japan bullet trains, the mafia, the Catholic church, etc. just aren't on topic. I'm with Vince, mrmitchell, et al on this - Ming has been very gracious for whatever reason, but it's really up to us to help keep to the rules and spirit of this site.

Theseus · December 14, 2003, 18:56

@ SG

CharlesBHoff · December 15, 2003, 01:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
CMH: That comparison doesn't hold water.

Many modern companies are totally serviced oriented or deal in "information" and not assets. In a loose definition, I would put Enron and Atari in the same category. Neither own oil wells or assets (with the additional benefit of low overhead as you point out). Additionally, as you suggest in your post, companies with large cap assets is a way for a company to have something to fall back on.

If people hate every software program released by Atari, Atari's financial performance will sink like a heavy stone just like Enron did. The only thing Atari "owns" would be copyrights, trademarks, etc. to software programs (unless they have diversified into other industries - I don't really know that). Enron had contracts, financial relationships, etc. Both are paper assets. The difference is that Atari, or the companies it bought, have produced software which people like - which the consumer or investor has confidence in.

Obviously, people lost confidence in Enron, for very good reason. Stock price is a crude indicator of confidence, due to investor evaluation of the company - and it fell from record highs to worthless very quickly. The problem with Enron was illegal activities, false reporting, etc. which distorted the true financial view of the company. This is what distorted an investor's evaluation of the strength of Enron.

I believe reviewing Theseus' posts would be worthwhile. He works in that industry after all. But even a step further back would worthwhile... the reason for this thread is to discuss the future of the Civilization franchise in light of Atari's financial performance. Strong company + strong demand for Civ games = new, full featured Civ 4. I believe that is the line of this discussion.

Not trying to be funny, but talking about French and Japan bullet trains, the mafia, the Catholic church, etc. just aren't on topic. I'm with Vince, mrmitchell, et al on this - Ming has been very gracious for whatever reason, but it's really up to us to help keep to the rules and spirit of this site.

Enron asset where finicial contactor which are wallstreet side bet cannot be used to support than Bank loan the Fed
and other centeral bank rules and most state bank board in America went along with the fed ruleing( State Bank Board are not bond to follow Fed ruleing) . While other contact can be used to get bank loan. Even than world of information need real asset and goods to run. Like foods,metal,oils and engery to run. Enron accounting scandal took alot of person fund manger by surfice than they didnot unload they holding of Enron fast enought. They where to merger with than Germany energy company, it seem like the Germany company hire someone like me who have sersious doutb about Enron balance but
was unable to put their finger on what they where hideing(
this isnot unusal in accounting to think that the books are cook and not to know why). So the Germany company back out of the merger with Enron and the mess hit the fan after this. To detect cook books once must know how to cook books. Enron basely increase they earming by cooking their book to have lower expenses so they would have highter earming which fool alot of people who look at one number only back then maining earming and didnot look at the other numbers also. It the other number donot support the cooked number is than good sign that the books are cooked.

Vince278 · December 17, 2003, 01:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
but it's really up to us to help keep to the rules and spirit of this site.

Well said.

Skanky Burns · December 17, 2003, 11:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Look at last year's figures. They made less than 1m net on 109m or something sales?

That's less than 1%, which means they are doing worse than supermarkets. I don't know if I should

or

If true, thats an extremely poor performance.

We will have to see what their figures post-christmas are.

Argos65987 · December 17, 2003, 17:04

I just have to say this is the most bizarre thread I have ever read.

Vince278 · December 18, 2003, 04:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Argos65987
I just have to say this is the most bizarre thread I have ever read.

Check out the OT forum.

Shogun Gunner · December 18, 2003, 07:48

I think this is the OT forum surging into Topic FOrums.

yes the OT is bizarre...

Mad Bomber · December 18, 2003, 10:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Bingo.

Look at last year's figures. They made less than 1m net on 109m or something sales?

That's less than 1%, which means they are doing worse than supermarkets. I don't know if I should

or

Man that is some SERIOUS overhead. On the otherhand, buying Atari likely cost a pretty penny as did the outrght purchase of Avlon Hill/ Hasboro. Moving the Headquarters out of France and covering losses in the employee pension fund (due to Enron, GC, MC World Com, ect) must be considered as well. In some ways it seems a minor miracle that Atari's losses were not even larger.

CharlesBHoff · December 18, 2003, 18:49

Where did they move they headquater.

Theseus · December 18, 2003, 20:00

Here in NYC.

Actually, though, that's not really 100% true... Atari is HQed in NYC, and Infogrames is still the French entity, and owns appr. 2/3 of Atari.

This was done as appr. 60% of total sales are in the US.

Shogun Gunner · December 19, 2003, 00:14

oh...we are back to on topic again....good (i'm never sure when that email comes through and the subject line says "Reply to post 'Atari Reports Losses'

)

That profit margin is incredible thin!!! When's the next earnings announcement due from Atari?

That stock price is pretty low... $3.65/share

CharlesBHoff · December 19, 2003, 18:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
oh...we are back to on topic again....good (i'm never sure when that email comes through and the subject line says "Reply to post 'Atari Reports Losses'

)

That profit margin is incredible thin!!! When's the next earnings announcement due from Atari?

That stock price is pretty low... $3.65/share

Profit margin isnot also that inportant. The state of the world
ecomony can effect profit margin of all bussiens. Wallmark is reporting last week that Christmas sale they ecpect is at the very low end of what they want. It the global ecomony pick up the profit margin will pick up again. There is no instant recovery from than major despration we went thought, it alot
like the 1929's thought 1930 despression. You must know alittle bit of history to put thing in the propter frame. In the last Great Despression almost all big corppration that survice report negrate profit margin for afew quater before thing got better.

Shogun Gunner · December 19, 2003, 20:14

Thanks. One of my degrees is in Economics.

...and profiy margin is one of the more important financial metrics. For proper perspective, it needs to be compared to the sector's performance, the trending over several quarters, overall sales figures, debt load + debt rating, and considered in light of the corporations strategic direction.

Theseus · December 19, 2003, 21:12

Quote:

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff
Profit margin isnot also that inportant. The state of the world
ecomony can effect profit margin of all bussiens. Wallmark is reporting last week that Christmas sale they ecpect is at the very low end of what they want. It the global ecomony pick up the profit margin will pick up again. There is no instant recovery from than major despration we went thought, it alot
like the 1929's thought 1930 despression. You must know alittle bit of history to put thing in the propter frame. In the last Great Despression almost all big corppration that survice report negrate profit margin for afew quater before thing got better.

I prefer EVA, myself... but, once again, I have no idea what you are going on about.