Nuclear War - Poly

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by DrSpike


Which will attract 'attention'.

Who...me??

We were actually allies for a brief period, Spikey. Tassadar invited me yesterday, and I accepted

Nobody cared to send me any orders, though - so I had to improvise. Unfortunately, my intelligence was pretty bad (I didn't know that you were also in this alliance) so London was lost.

If you wish, you can blame it on Comrade Tassadar. If he had been any quicker to send me some orders, this wouldn't have happened.

(Or I could have checked who I was allied with - but let's not go there )

Asmodean

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Jamski
I'm just waiting for Game 2....

With the addition of a couple of new rules from the board game? Spies and propaganda and governments anyone?

-Jam

Board game? I never knew there were a board game?

Feel free to post the game rules (in short)... Propaganda was the only thing in the game... there was no governments nor spies...

[Jamski]

Ah, then you missed half the fun of the board game.

Propaganda is a new order : you can take one city from an opponent and it becomes yours.

Governments would need to be adapted for the 'poly rules... for example you choose (only at the beginning of the game) democracy.

Democracy : Your propaganda is twice as effective, you cannot use spies and propaganda is useless against you. However, you cannot nuke anyone unless they attack you first, and you have to post ALL your orders openly.

More governments to come... I gotta think how to convert them to 'poly rules.

-Jam

[Jamski]

Ok, Governments :

You choose your gov. at the beginning of the game. To change you need a revolution, which takes a whole turn in which you can do nothing else. Governments are OPEN to the general community to see.

Democracy
Advantages : Progaganda is twice as effective - they lose 2 cities you gain 2 cities. You are immune to propaganda.
Disadvantages : You have to openly post all your orders (very open to spies) and you cannot nuke someone unless they nuked you first (deflections count as nuking from the person who deflected)

Communism
Advantages : You are immune to spies, and your spies are twice as effective (i.e. information on two opponents, or sabotage 2 opponents) You also have 2 spies at the start of the game.
Disadvantages : You cannot build new cities or preform propaganda.

Isolationalist
Advantages : You start with one extra city. You can use the "hide in bunker" three times. Your deflectors stop one extra nuke (i.e. they stop 1,2,4,6... while 3,5,7 will hit)
Disadvantages : You can launch only one nuke per turn. You cannot build new cites and you cannot use spies.

Millitarist Dicatorship
Advantages : You can launch 3 nukes per turn.
Disadvantages : You cannot perform propaganda, you cannot deflect and you cannot hide in your bunker.

Next the new orders :

Perform Propaganda :
This takes one city away from an opponent and adds it to yours. You cannot perform propaganda on a country that has directly or indirectly (i.e deflecting nukes) been involved in a nuclear exchange with yours, or a country with the same government.

Stockpile Nukes :
Instead of launching 2 nukes you can "ready" them for next turn and fire FOUR nukes next turn. This doesn't stack, so you can't waith 5 turns before launching an apocalyse of 10 nukes.

Train a new spy :
Just like it sounds.

And finally, SPIES :

Each country starts with one spy. A spy can either be used to see what another country is doing that turn, or used to sabotage another country's orders, cancelling them. A spy used to sabotage is "used up", a spy that only observes is regained. Spies can be used at the same time as performing other orders. Spies are lost if the country they are "observing" is nuked that turn.

So, what do people think? This will bring it closer to the original board game.

-Jam

[DrSpike]

Will ADG be able to process all that?

[Asmodean]

The GameMaster will certainly have to keep his head cool

But it sounds fun

Asmodean

[DrSpike]

That's exactly what a backstabber would say.

[Jamski]

I'd love to have the people to play the old board game.... the fun of shouting accross the table as your mum (allied to you) nukes your last cities

-Jam

[Nubclear]

Um, hello? Communism can't do propaganda? Communism is KNOWN for it's propaganda Democratic governments are known for their REALLY BAD propaganda

Change it now Jamski or die

[Nubclear]

A critique on the government choices:

Democracy
Plus: Propaganda twice as effective.
This is wrong. Democracy is known as having very ineffective propaganda due to it being too direct.
Plus: Immune to propaganda
This is WAY wrong. Democracies are MUCH more easily subverted by propaganda due to it being an open society. This is one of the main criticisms of democracy.
Minus: Openly post orders.
Wrong. Most democracies never publickly announce their orders
Minus: Cannot nuke unless nuked.
This is correct.

Communism
Plus: Immune to spies
Wrong. Communism isn't immune to spies. Bad argument, but...I need to argue against communism
Plus: Spies are twice as effective.
This may have applied to the KGB, however one cannot say the Chinese intelligence agency, the North Korean one, the Cuban one, etc are anywhere near the KGB.
Plus: Two spies at start of game
This is OK.
Minus: Cannot build new cities
This is a MAJOR setback to any government, and is completly wrong for communism. In fact, under communism new cities are OFTEN built especially in China to accomidate for the growing populations.
Minus: Perform propaganda
This is obviously false. Propaganda was the main tool for Stalinlism to take hold in the Soviet Union, and was used as a tool to maintain support for any current actions. Propaganda has been used effectively also in China, North Korea, and most other communist nations.

Isolationalist (Sic, should be Isolationist)
Plus: Start with one extra city
This is OK.
Plus: can use Hide in Bunker three times.
While this may be "historically" correct, this is unbalancing. Three times?! *@^(!!!
Plus: Deflectors stop an additional nuke.
This is OK.
Minus: Can only launch one nuke per turn
I would increase this to 1.5, but.....
Minus: Cannot build new cities and NO spies
Alright.

Military Dictatorship
Advantages: Launch 3 nukes per turn
@*^*, again!
Minus: Cannot perform propaganda
This may be correct. Usually the military enforces the 'propaganda'.
Minus: Cannot deflect
No.
Minus: Cannot hide
No. Both these make it too easy a target.

Another post to come later with suggestions.

[Nubclear]

COMMUNISM

Advantages: Propaganda twice as effective (Due to communists being masters at propaganda ),
2 spies (Uh...Because of the legacy of the KGB? I want at least 2 advantages per government.),
cities take 2 nukes to destroy (Communism stuck it out for a while....)

Disadvantages: Unable to build any new cities (...but was unable to grow),
spies take 2 turns to train (Representing fear of the government and skepticism of its motives for recruitment)

Democracy

Advantages: Can build 1.5 cities per turn (Meaning they've built one and started construction on another...The next turn they complete construction, and build another thereby building "2" cities. This represents populations fleeing tyranical governments to achieve thier dreams Isn't that heartwarming?)
Can stockpile an additional nuke (Due to populations being more productive under more freedoms)
Disadvantages: Can't nuke or deflect to a nation that hasn't nuked the democracy.

ISOLATIONIST

Kept the same with the added advantage of being able to stockpile 6 nukes (Though this would take 6 turns to accomplish)

MILITARY DICTATORSHIP

Advantages: Can launch 3 nukes per turn (Having most of the economy tooled towards military)
Immune to propaganda (Due to, well foreign anything not being allowed)

Disadvantages:
Cannot initialize propaganda (Due to nobody wanting to be under a military dictatorship)
Cannot stockpile nukes (Um...Because he's trigger happy?)
Deflections only protect 1 in every 3 nukes (So nukes 3, 6, 9, and 12 would be deflected by 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, and 11 would hit, because no freedoms at all make scientists ineffective at researching deflection technology)

[vovan]

Doesn't "Propaganda twice as effective" for democracy mean, the democracy looses two cities with propaganda?

EDIT: Oh wait, it wouldn't be an "advantage" then, now would it?

EDIT2: Oh, yes, almost forgot why I cam here: I'm leaving till the first of december, so you'll miss the maps till then.

But then, you all probably seen that in the Mafia thread.

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by DrSpike
That's exactly what a backstabber would say.

Did you care to read my post?

It was an accident. The target software in my nuke got fed the wrong data

Asmodean

[vovan]

Originally posted by Asmodean
The target software in my nuke got fed the wrong data

Stupid popups...

[Az]

Democracy: not immune to propoganda, can build 2 cities per turn.

[Nubclear]

That was initially my first idea, but then 2 cities per turn is a bit overpowering....Three turns yields 6 cities That would take nearly forever to counter...So I think 1.5 is best.

[Jamski]

The governments aren't meant to be like real life Tass But they are pretty balanced. NOONE should get the ability to expand faster than 1 city per turn. 1.5 is too fast as well.

As it is, each government specialises in one area, at the cost of another.

Democrats : Propganda gods
Communists : Spy gods
Isolationists : Defence gods
Dictatorships : Attack gods

And that's the way it should be. The game is just an abstraction, not a real-life simulation. The open-orders post for democracy is a needed minus, because the double propaganda is so powerful (this is things like Berlin wall etc...)

I knew Tass would hate the commies whatever I said

Tass's Ideal Communists :
Advantages : Spies twice as effective. May build two cities per turn. May launch 4 nukes per turn. Immune to propaganda.
Disadvantages : May only be used by Tass.

But I like the suggestion that isolationists can stockpile more nukes than the others. But, I would suggest that they stockpile 2 per turn, with a maximum of 6.

-Jam

[Adagio]

Sounds like I get a lot of work with these rules, but sounds like fun... I'm up to it

Though the taking cities sounds like something diffecult to draw for Vovan


Though about the propaganda I was more thinking in the line as they had in the computer-game (Anyone tried it?)(With less randomness than in the computer game though):

Each city has a size (Mostly around 1-60, but sometimes larger than 100). Each attack (Nuke or propaganda) would take a number of citizens. How many people was lost was more of a random factor, but since randomness can't be used here, I have another idea:
Propaganda: The more nukes has been fired at specific nation, the happier they are to leave, though the higher emount of nukes sent to them from the nation initiating the propaganda, the less interested they are in moving out. Also the more times the propaganda has been used against them, the lesser they "notice" the propaganda.
The people who's affected by the propaganda moves to a random city in the nation who started the propaganda.
There's a chance it'll create a ghost-town (size = 0 = dead)

Nuking: How many people a nuke will destroy is random (I'll have a list of numbers before the game starts. The first nuke will kill the number of citizens as written on first line (Then the line is deleted, making second line the amount for the next nuke)



Of course this makes it much more advanced

There's no option to build a new city... Each player starts with 5 cities...






Btw, where's those orders
I have yet to recieve the first orders for this round...

[Jamski]

We should leave all randomness out of the game. Its better when each order has a fixed result. And the simple use of cities as units, rather than the mess of population in cities. We don't want it tooooo complicated, do we?

-Jam

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Asmodean


Did you care to read my post?

It was an accident. The target software in my nuke got fed the wrong data

Asmodean

Maybe I believe it, but you can forgive a little scepticism.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Jamski
We should leave all randomness out of the game. Its

Yeah, that's what I thought... I just wanted to share how it works in the game... maybe someone could come up with a great idea or something

[Asmodean]

I like the game as it is, perhaps with the addition of spies. If people want to go the whole way with the rules that Jamski has proposed, I'm up for it, but I really think we shouldn't.

KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

Asmodean

[DrSpike]

I agree with the backstabbing Dane.

Tbh either way we really need to get a group that will post orders each day, because otherwise it could get dull.

[Az]

I don't like spies, anyway...

[Adagio]

4 hours left... and still not one who has given some orders

[Adagio]

2 hours left... and I've only recieved 1 order... ok, I did recieve 2, but one of them has to be changed... I sent a PM back to this person...


WHEN ORDERS HAVE BEEN SENT, PLEASE POST A MSG HERE

[Asmodean]

Orders sent

Asmodean

[DrSpike]

Let me eat first.........I have a couple of hours right?

[Adagio]

September 2004:

The numbers of cities left in this world is not a great number… And after this month, there’s even less. Spaced Cowboy attacked Nuclear Master, who were quick on the trigger to deflect it… to bad for him, he forgot to input the coordinates for the deflection. The deflected nuke went all the way around the world and landed on his own city Ontario. SC’s other nuke hit Canada.
Asmodean nuked Sheep, and got two hits: Sydney & Perth.
DrSpike also set up a deflection system…



4 - Spaced Cowboy (Dallas, Plano, Denton & Irving remaining)
5 - DrSpike (Southampton, Torquay & Paignton remaining)
9 - Sheep (Brisbane & Adelaide remaining)
10 - Asmodean (Copenhagen, Århus, Aalborg, Odense & Randers remaining)
11 – Nuclear Master (Quebec & Calgary remaining)

[DrSpike]

Does that mean NM deflected without saying who to, and you had no choice but to let the nuke hit him?