The real reason AI would not build ships!

Gothmog · January 13, 2001, 10:57

A few weeks ago I asked for help in this forum about a scenario I'm making. The problem was that the AI would not build ships. Well, the problem has been solved, and I have stumbled upon the real reason why there was a problem in the first place.

The reason was that I had used the mapcopy utility to bring an updated map into the scenario, but I didn't use mapcopy properly!

What you need to do, and this is clearly stated in the mapcopy documentation, is use the ANALYZE MAP function in the civ ii map editor. This updates the map file with something called the "body counter". Each land mass in the map is assigned a number and each tile belonging to the land mass gets that number. You can see that number to the right of the coordinates of a terrain tile in the game.

If you don't use the ANALYZE MAP function before saving your map, what gets imported into the scenario file are "body counter" values of zero. The AI uses these values for trade calculations and apparently for deciding whether to build land or sea units. With one apparent land mass, why build ships?

Somewhere along the line, I must have reimported an analyzed map into the scenario and fixed the problem without knowing it. Before I had thought the AI problem had something to do with population values or unit values, but this was surely not the case.

All of this brings up a question. If you start a regular civ game with a map that has not had an analyze map done to it, will that game's AI be all fouled up?

Jay Bee · January 13, 2001, 11:11

Sorry if it's a dumb question but... what's mapcopy?

SCDARS · January 13, 2001, 11:34

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Bee on 01-13-2001 10:11 AM
Sorry if it's a dumb question but... what's mapcopy?

It's a quite smart tool maed by Dusty and allows some map operations (see http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/zother.cfm )

Carl, that's a very valauable insight...
I was already wondering why I couldn't reproduce the solution as you described it (rising the population about 50%, changing some values etc.) - no it's clear as I somehow had an older savegame. I regret I couldn't help you with this problem, but it seems you didn't need my advice

Another application I could think of: Perhaps it would be easy to force the AI to build more ships by changing a map from an ocean world -> normal world without analyzing the map?

techumseh · January 13, 2001, 15:54

Very interesting. But how did you learn this?

Mao · January 13, 2001, 16:57

ewwwwwww!!!! SidGames bad! BAD! BAD!

Jay Bee · January 13, 2001, 17:40

Hmm this is interesting. As I posted before I had the same problem as Gothmog with Celts & Iberians. But I made the map from scratch (I did not even know that a mapcopy thing even existed). I do not remember if I used the analyzemap thing with it, but most likely I didn't.

So perhaps the problem does not reside in using mapcopy but in NOT using analyzemap?

I second Techumseh's question, how did you find out?

PS. Mao, if you ever see this, we are waiting for your spamming...uh, spanglish posts at the new Spanish Civ Site forum!

St Leo · January 14, 2001, 02:19

Mao, you are one of the most open-minded people I've ever had the privilege of meeting.

------------------
St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

Gothmog · January 15, 2001, 12:24

How did I find out?
1. I never had complete faith that the population explanation was the right one.
2. After I got the scenario working, I once again imported a map with the mapcopy utility. Then the scenario broke down again.
3. Then I read through the mapcopy documentation more thoroughly like I should have done in the first place. When I saw the stuff about the "body counter", I knew what the problem had been all along.

I think it is absolutely necessary to analyze the map if you use mapcopy to copy map changes made in the map editor into the CIV2 scenario editor. Otherwise trade and the AI will be fouled up. That's the main point I wanted to make with this thread.

Note to Jay Bee.
The procedure for using mapcopy is
1. Load your scenarios map from the sav file into the regular CIV II map editor.
2. Make your terrain changes. Sometimes, it is easier to change terrain in the map editor than the scenario editor when you have a lot of changes or rivers are involved.
3. Use the analyze map function. This updates the body counter information. (Initially I did not do this, therefore I had the AI problems.)
4. Save the changes to a mp file.
5. Import the mp file into the sav file using mapcopy.

Jay Bee · January 15, 2001, 14:41

quote:

Originally posted by Gothmog on 01-15-2001 11:24 AM
I think it is absolutely necessary to analyze the map if you use mapcopy to copy map changes made in the map editor into the CIV2 scenario editor. Otherwise trade and the AI will be fouled up. That's the main point I wanted to make with this thread.

OK, but what if you did not use mapcopy at all? Would then AnalyeMap be necessary?