Did the Chinese Overreact?

[Sprayber]

What about all the people the Chinese ****ed over in the past? Or is that somehow different? The Japanese got some pretty stiff competition at killing Chinese from the Chinese themselves. But lets not talk about that. Lets just bash the Japanese like the PRC tells us to.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DaShi
The thing was that they weren't targetting China specifically.

OTOH, there is no sign of penitence on the part of Japanese government.

[DaShi]

So?

[st_swithin]

Originally posted by DaShi


So rioting and threatening Japanese students who weren't even born at the time is the proper response. Or is China just waiting for the chance to commit its own atrocities on the Japanese. I agree wholeheartedly that Japan needs to apologize and generally be more contrite for its actions during WWII, but bad behavior is still bad behavior. And the reasons for these riots are tenuous.

There is no proper response. Unfortunately, when a people hold their collective tongue for so long while simultaneously expecting contrition, respect, and recognition, any catalyst will serve to open the floodgates and result in an inappropriately disproportionate response.

Culturally, Chinese people tend to be rather less forthcoming about discussing events which are troubling or painful, instead choosing to hold it all in and hoping that it will all just go without saying.

[DaShi]

Well, had Japan done more to educate its own people about the atrocities, then these students may have had more tact. What it really comes down to, however, is immature children on both sides. Neither of whom experienced first hand the tragedies of WWII. The Japanese students were just foolish, and their teacher also should have known better. The Chinese students probably should have responded with quiet disapproval, but, being children with no better outlet to express themselves, they choose to vent their personal hatred in violent and unbecoming riots.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I am sure some German students making fun of Jews is going to go over well, particularly in Israel.

Are we insinuating that wearing fake genitals and bras is in some way making fun of the Chinese? Is there a stereotype that the Chinese have abnormally small breasts and genitals comparatively to the Japanese?

I though the Israelis were the best definition of 'apologist' on this forum. I guess I was wrong.

[Alinestra Covelia]

It doesn't surprise me that this was a British article. The Missouri School of Journalism has deep respect for the British broadcast media, but general consensus here is that American print media has the UK's print media beat hands down for objectivity and interpretative journalism without overframing.

The Guardian is already politically closer to the Chinese ideology than most British papers. Some quotes from the article would not be likely to appear in mainstream US broadsheets like the Washington Post or the New York Times, except perhaps on the op/ed pages.

If the performers had been Chinese, Russian or European, that would probably have been the end of the matter. But the fact that they were Japanese turned a cultural misunderstanding into an international incident

The outcry sparked by the innocuous display of student humour this week is the latest and most bizarre in a series of public demonstrations against anything Japanese

Both of these paragraphs are fine as editorial opinions, but they're not objective enough to stand up as factual reporting. I admire the reporter's attempt to contextualize the situation, but I don't feel that this attempt is backed up with enough facts or sources to bring it out of the veil of subjectivity.

Of course, this already counts as pretty high quality British print reporting, so I suppose I shouldn't complain. It's a hell of a lot better than what the US broadcast media would make of it, at any rate. (FOX News, anybody?)

Meanwhile, have a picture of my roommate dressed in drag.

I think this should spark an international incident against all American born Chinese who were educated in Britain. What do you think?

[DaShi]

We need an axe grinding smilie.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

I am sure some German students making fun of Jews is going to go over well, particularly in Israel.

Are we insinuating that wearing fake genitals and bras is in some way making fun of the Chinese? Is there a stereotype that the Chinese have abnormally small breasts and genitals comparatively to the Japanese?

I though the Israelis were the best definition of 'apologist' on this forum. I guess I was wrong.

My best advice to give you is to understand the complexity of the situation before you leap forth to proffer comments that is best classified as "ignorant."

I am sure that a furor will be raised if a similar situation takes place in Korea, the Philippines, or any country where Japanese brutality was overtly displaced for any length of time.

I thought the situation was roughly sketched out in a prior lengthy thread, but I guess not.

[Imran Siddiqui]

My best advice to give you is to understand the complexity of the situation before you leap forth to proffer comments that is best classified as "ignorant."

I understand it. I just think it is utterly moronic and foolish. Japanese kids do a bawdy skit and the Chinese go ape **** and threaten death.

All I can say is what the HELL is wrong with Asia if this would be common in Korea or the Philippines.

Utterly moronic activity by the Chinese here. They are the true 'ignorant' ones here

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

My best advice to give you is to understand the complexity of the situation before you leap forth to proffer comments that is best classified as "ignorant."

I understand it. I just think it is utterly moronic and foolish. Japanese kids do a bawdy skit and the Chinese go ape **** and threaten death.

You understand it? It appears that you do not, as you have failed to interpret the situation in context.

BTW, I see no mention of death threats in the quoted article, Imran.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You understand it? It appears that you do not, as you have failed to interpret the situation in context.

No, I definetly understand it and the utter idiocy of not being able to let go one iota. It is like they are waiting for someone of Japanese dissent to slip up so they can express how upset they are for things that happened 60 years ago.

The situation 'in context' changes nothing. Bunch of Japanese schoolkids danced bawdily in front of a Chinese group. BIG ****ING DEAL!

BTW, I see no mention of death threats in the quoted article, Imran.

The way this situation is going, I can see it come. Whenever the Japanese are involved, China has no sense of proportion, instead saying since you did something 60 years ago, we have the right to totally go bonkers and overreact.

[DanS]

as you have failed to interpret the situation in context

I have yet to see a plausible context in this thread.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I'm sorry, but what do war crimes 60 years ago have to do with silly, non-destructive pranks pulled by students today?

If you were black, and waiting on me in a restaurant, and I yelled across the place at you "Boy, fetch me another lemonade!" would you possibly get a bit "uppity?"

There may be some hypersensitivity involved, but there isn't baseless hypersensitivity.

[mrmitchell]

Any reaction at all over college kids making pranks is outrageous.

If the prank was done in America then they'd get applause and good humor, not this protest crap.

(Well, someone would protest, but it wouldn't be things like "articles in teh national media accusing them of humiliating china" etc.)

[Imran Siddiqui]

If you were black, and waiting on me in a restaurant, and I yelled across the place at you "Boy, fetch me another lemonade!" would you possibly get a bit "uppity?"

Like I said, if small breast and genitals were something that Japanese believed about Chinese, perhaps there would be something. But nothing like that exists.

It'd be akin to white schoolkids today prancing around in their underwear at a show attended by mostly black people. It may be a bit inappropriate, yes, but no one in their right minds would say the kids did this to insult blacks!

[David Floyd]

If you were black, and waiting on me in a restaurant, and I yelled across the place at you "Boy, fetch me another lemonade!" would you possibly get a bit "uppity?"

Possibly, but the Japanese pranks were not racial slurs.

And I find it interesting that Imran and I actually agree on something

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well it is UR on the other side

[MichaeltheGreat]

If you look at the whole modern history, it goes beyond mass butchery like Nanjing, beheading contests, gang rape sports until the victims literally died of internal hemorhaging, live dissections, live prisoners used at random for bayonet and sword practice, and a host of other things. You also have a mass of propaganda caricaturing the lowly, greasy, stupid, ignorant Chinese and the glorious Japanese, portrayals of every sort of stereotype and mockery of the Chinese individually, as a people, nationally, culturally. And this legacy of mockery and degradation occurred as the background to slavery, torture and genocide of unimagineable proportions.

The holocaust really pales in comparison, but the reason it's more prominent is that it lethally affected so much larger a percentage of the Jewish population of Europe. The Japanese simply couldn't butcher that many Chinese in the time they had, not for lack of trying - plus they also made it recreation, as opposed to an industrially effiecient process.

Add to that the complete denial, lack of apology or accounting because China went commie and we felt it convenient to look the other way at Japanese war crimes for the sake of the cold war - and the Japanese, individually and nationally got away with a hell of a lot vis-a-vis their treatment of the peoples they conquered. We not only had a lot less of Japanese "hospitality" with Pearl, the Bataan Death March, the mass murder of civilian construction personnel on Wake Island, POW executions at Makin Island, that did the Chinese, we had the catharsis of beating them ****ing senseless from Edson's Ridge right up to Nagasaki. We don't need no apologies, we got what we needed when we left an Ace of Spades on their dead asses.

The Chinese got dealt so many orders of magnitude worse that there isn't even a scale for it, and most of those atrocities and crimes were never answered for. Hell, you've got apologists, minimizers and deniers of Japanese warcrimes sitting in their government now, including at the national legislative level. In Japanese schoolbooks on modern Japanese history, those things essentially never happened. If you want to make an Israeli-German analogy, then you have to think in terms of a Germany where holocaust denial is de facto policy, and where neo-Nazis and holocaust deniers are active members of the government.

So we're not really in a position to judge their level of sensitivity about any sort of perceived insult. If the Chinese go ballistic, they have a lot of reason for it. As far as them being the ones to let it go - that's BS until the Japanese "let it go" by dropping the rationalizations, denials and evasion of the truth.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Possibly, but the Japanese pranks were not racial slurs.

And I find it interesting that Imran and I actually agree on something

"Boy" is not a racial slur, nor is "fetch me another lemonade" - they may be insulting and degrading, but mostly as a result of a particular historical context.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So we're not really in a position to judge their level of sensitivity about any sort of perceived insult.

Why not, it's a free country (well here anyway) .

I think we can judge that their sensitivity to something which can only be construed as an 'insult' by those looking to find one is utterly silly.

I think that statement is as ridiculous as saying whites are not in any position to judge the sensitivity of blacks in America about any sort of percieved insult. If its dumb, it's dumb. Maybe you need an outsider looking in to show the reasonable way to look at the situation, but that doesn't mean that the outsider can't say how dumb it is.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

So we're not really in a position to judge their level of sensitivity about any sort of perceived insult.

Why not, it's a free country (well here anyway) .

Let me rephrase then. We are always "free" to form uninformed, unqualified opinions.

I think we can judge that their sensitivity to something which can only be construed as an 'insult' by those looking to find one is utterly silly.

If you have an unresolved issue and a history of "**** you" attitudes by the past violator, then it's not too surprising that their current conduct is viewed in a somewhat jaded and unforgiving manner.

[Imran Siddiqui]

If you have an unresolved issue and a history of "**** you" attitudes by the past violator, then it's not too surprising that their current conduct is viewed in a somewhat jaded and unforgiving manner.

Understanding a reaction and calling it moronic anyway are two different things .

[Drake Tungsten]

Did the Chinese Overreact?

Of course they did; do the Chinese ever not overreact when Japan is involved? It's frightening that this type of stuff actually happens. You'd think something this idiotic could only come from the pages of the Onion.

[Dis]

I think it is obvious that Japanese people have no sense of humour. Of course, neither do the Chinese.

Scary. Why do I think China will attempt to conquer Japan now?

[Mr. Harley]

To add on to what MichaeltheGreat stated. It's a bigger problem when both governments teach a very slanted and propogandized history to their children. Please understand, the US could do better - who here knows what the Salt River Massacre was, or the biggest mass hanging in the history of the United States (hint, during the civil war) - but compared to what has happened in Japan and China we are a bright and shining star when it comes to teaching our children history.

The Chinese are hypersensitive collectively, and often individually, about any cultural insensitivity by any Japanese, and see it as an "ugly" Japanese, aka the "ugly American". Considering the unresolved history and government meddling gives it context. It's sad, but very human. South Korea seems to have worked through the issue of Japan's brutul occupation, maybe they would have some tips for China and Japan?

[Drake Tungsten]

South Korea seems to have worked through the issue of Japan's brutul occupation, maybe they would have some tips for China and Japan?

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I think South Korea still has a long way to go before they have fully worked through that particular issue.

[Mr. Harley]

That's true, but it seems they are not quite as hyper-sensitive as the Chinese. Of course, I'll be honest, I don't follow the news out of South Korea too closely.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Looking at this thread, I'm tempted to start a "Did Apolyton Off Topic overreact?" thread.

The only problem is that it would be impossible to fit in a "banana" option.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
No, Chinese hate Japanese with a passion. If the movie were American, nothing would have happened.

True. One day a student in my class said that he "hated" the Japanese. I asked him why. He replied that he "didn't know." A lot of Chinese (especially young people) are like this. They become "programmed" with information and don't question it very closely. It becomes something that "everybody knows" (e.g. "everybody knows" that Thai food is too spicy to eat, even though no one knows anyone who ever actually tried it.)

The days that Chinese were puritanical are long over.

Agreed. Chinese movies don't tell the real story (they must pass governement muster). In real life you see young couples everywhere making out in public (they have no place to do it in private). Sometimes I think I see more public hanky-panky in Shanghai than I ever did in an American city. It's rather surprising.