overdose - Page 2

Provost Harrison · November 16, 2003, 16:55

Paracetamol is the big liver killer...

Jon Miller · November 16, 2003, 16:58

that's notlisted as an ingrediant in anything Itook

JM

st_swithin · November 16, 2003, 17:02

Vodka and scotch damage your liver too - moderation in all things, even forums.

Dr Strangelove · November 16, 2003, 17:04

Aspirin is acetyl salicylic acid, while tylenol is acetaminophen. They are different chemicals with different toxicities. The primary toxicity of acetaminophen is liver damage, and as said above generally occurs only with doses greater than 10,000 milligrams. In alcoholics who already have liver damage smaller doses, as low as 3000 milligrams/day, may be toxic. Acute poisoning by aspirin is more likely to cause metabolic acidosis and to damage the kidney. Long term daily use of high dose aspirin may cause peptic ulcers and chronic kidney damage. If you stay within the recommended doses of these medications you're unlikely to run into a problem.

Jon Miller · November 16, 2003, 17:08

is ibuorifen the same as tylenol or aspirin or something different?

I diffinitely want to limit my use of tylenol the next couple of days

JOn Miller

Dr Strangelove · November 16, 2003, 20:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Miller
is ibuorifen the same as tylenol or aspirin or something different?

I diffinitely want to limit my use of tylenol the next couple of days

JOn Miller

Ibuprofen is not the same as aspirin, but it belongs to the same class and has similar toxicities. I would not mix the two in large doses. They're both "non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs", which act to inhibit an enzyme known as cyclo-oxygenase, which catalyzes a crucial step in the synthesis of the prostaglandin class of biomolecules. Prostaglandins are among the mediators of pain and inflammation, but they also have a role in the maintenance of the mucous barrier of the stomach and in maintaining blood flow in the kidney. Therefore prostaglandins relieve pain and inflammation (partially), but they also reduce the protection of the stomach from its own acid and reduce blood flow to certain parts of the kidneys. Fortunately the latter two actions usually only become a problem with prolonged use. NSAIDS are irreversible inhibitors of cyclo-oxygenase, while acetaminophen is a reversible inhibitor, meaning that tylenol doesn't inhibit the reaction as avidly or as long as the NSAIDS.

Mr. Harley · November 17, 2003, 01:34

Dr. Strangelove, nicely said. Just got back on, and checked this thread. You said it better than I could. For John's sake, that 10 gram overdose is the level that gets you ill, and will have a high likelihood of some liver damage. Nice thing is that livers have a high recuperative ability (self-repair) and that a few incidents won't screw it up. It takes a determined effort, like alchoholism, or an infection like hepatitus, or cancer, to destroy the liver. The worst combo is alchoholics who use tylenol to treat hang-overs. That can kill your liver relatively quickly.

I didn't check your math on your dosage, I took you at you word on the 4000 mg, which is 4 gm. Some people shrug off mega-doses (as in sub-overdose but higher than recommended) while other people start to see adverse effects. I put it the way I did, as in close to half the toxic dose, as in overdose, level, to make the point - FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS ON THE BOX, EVEN IF IT'S OVER THE COUNTER. I realize with that level of pain you're getting desperate (I've had an eardrum rupture due to a mistreated and massive ear infection - that hurts!). I commented on mixing alchohol because we seem to have a small number of people who, shall we say, at least periodically overindulge, and I didn't know where you fall. From your description your level of alchohol intake does not constitute too much risk when taking tylenol, just don't mix them when you do drink. However, swearing off getting drunk versus swearing off alchohol is an excellent idea. Not only will your liver and other organs thank you, you won't do something appallingly stupid while drunk (I don't need alchohol for that, as in doing something stupid, so I shudder to think of just how stupid I could be if drunk

).

With tylenol, ibuprofin, and aspirin, drink plenty of water. It makes it easier on the liver, kidney, and kidney respectively. Actually kidney damage is more often seen from taking pain killers, because again it's cumulative, the kidney doesn't repair itself as well as the liver, and people often don't drink enough water. With all three groups of drugs, stay hydrated. Single easiest piece of advice. I stated you needed to tell your doctor about the mega-dose of tylenol, because when they prescribe you a pain killer, they needed to know that you already had a pretty good dose of tylenol in you. That way, as appropriate, they could prescribe something without it, yet plenty strong. Post how your visit went. Hope you get better soon.

Lefty Scaevola · November 18, 2003, 11:31

"Read the ****ing manual"

Good god, OTC medical labels are not rocket science.

And ODing on pain relief. I would like to see how you woul deal with an acute case of gout (and try it in an ankle, much worse than in a toe) or serious back pain. Don't you know than one of the incidents of being an adult is that you will never be free from pain again? (Happy growing up , now.)

Spec · November 18, 2003, 11:35

Advil rules all for pain relief.

Spec.

Jon Miller · November 18, 2003, 11:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
"Read the ****ing manual"

Good god, OTC medical labels are not rocket science.

And ODing on pain relief. I would like to see how you woul deal with an acute case of gout (and try it in an ankle, much worse than in a toe) or serious back pain. Don't you know than one of the incidents of being an adult is that you will never be free from pain again? (Happy growing up , now.)

oh, I surely didn't need that much

I just meant to take a little over normal (but still within range)

instead I took a lot over normal

Jon Miller