Man am I impressed...

Traelin · November 17, 2003, 18:34

OK I've usually been involved in constructive criticism of PTW, but I really have to give credit where credit is due WRT C3C. Here's some of the changes I REALLY, REALLY dig:

1. Deserts giving 3 food when irrigated. What a great change. I can't stress this enough. It's realistic too.

2. AI not building a ridiculous amount of nukes, and not using them liberally (if at all). The developers are to be commended for this. How annoying it would be for me when the AIs (usually Rome) would nuke each other into oblivion and I'd be left with Mars in return. Either that or I'd end up having that "nuke crash to desktop" scenario.

3. Lethal bombardment. BIGTIME KUDOS FOR THIS ONE. Finally bombers are realistic.

4. AIs' use of air and naval warfare. So much good stuff has gone into the AI here. The AI now finally realizes the value of striking the city instead of the surrounding tiles. WTF would they want to destroy a perfectly good countryside anyways?

5. Cutthroat AI. Thank God the AI is now more willing to finish off opponents that they have by the cajones.

6. Limited rebase range. Awesome.

7. The Dutch. They make me very happy indeed. I finally have a non-militaristic Civ that I enjoy playing. Which leads to...

8. Agricultural and Seafaring traits. Man are these traits awesome when you are militaristic by nature and have Armies.

Which leads to...

9. Army improvements. Movement, attack, defense, healing abilities all got much-needed improvements. Man are Armies awesome, and deservedly so.

10. Lack of sleep and sustenance. Oh wait a minute, this is not good. I haven't gone to the gym all week because of this d*mn game. The "one more turn" feeling is back for me in force.

And the Modern Age absolutely rocks now IMO.

Sigh life is too short to be wasted away on a game.

pauli · November 17, 2003, 18:46

Quote:

1. Deserts giving 3 food when irrigated. What a great change. I can't stress this enough. It's realistic too.

@_@

wow. i wish i'd known. time to check it out...

Catt · November 17, 2003, 19:10

Quote:

Originally posted by pauli

@_@

wow. i wish i'd known. time to check it out...

Irrigated deserts with an oasis produce 3 food for most civs, 4 food for agricultural civs (both subject to the depotism tile penalty). Normal deserts remain unchanged from PTW - except that agricultural civs can irrigate and have them jump from 0 to 2 food.

Catt

Alexander's Horse · November 17, 2003, 19:18

I want this game

alva · November 17, 2003, 22:20

Quote:

6. Limited rebase range. Awesome.

How does this work now, what has changed?

Catt · November 17, 2003, 22:57

Quote:

Originally posted by alva

Quote:

6. Limited rebase range. Awesome.

How does this work now, what has changed?

I believe, but am not sure, that rebasing an air unit is limited to a maximum distance of 3x the air unit's range -- i.e., a bomber with 10-tile range could rebase no more than 30 tiles away in any one turn.

Catt

vmxa1 · November 18, 2003, 00:15

I did not measure the range, but it sure seem to be plenty far enough. I rebase to another contient with no probelm. Each time a rebase, I expect to find it was not allowed, but that never happened.

dexters · November 18, 2003, 01:51

Quote:

The AI now finally realizes the value of striking the city instead of the surrounding tiles. WTF would they want to destroy a perfectly good countryside anyways?

That's actually one thing we are pushing to change. Bombarding cities works if the AI actually has troops marching towards that city in that turn. Most of the time, AI ships just bombard random cities within their range. The units heal the next turn. No damage done. Bombarding countryside affect production, road networks and gold income. it does more damage. May not be realistic to you, but it worked in vanilla civ3.

Sarxis · November 18, 2003, 02:36

The AI still pillages a bit. So far in my games, its been doing so smartly.

steven8r · November 18, 2003, 11:05

#10. I can certainly identify with this one!!

I just got the game. Hello C3C, Goodbye weekend, weeknights, work-time, family, dogs, etc.

I'm not adicted! I can quit anytime I want--just one more turn!

Traelin · November 18, 2003, 11:31

Quote:

Originally posted by dexters

That's actually one thing we are pushing to change. Bombarding cities works if the AI actually has troops marching towards that city in that turn. Most of the time, AI ships just bombard random cities within their range. The units heal the next turn. No damage done. Bombarding countryside affect production, road networks and gold income. it does more damage. May not be realistic to you, but it worked in vanilla civ3.

IMO I hated when the AI bombarded the countryside. And what was even stupider was that if you captured THEIR cities, they would immediately bombard their OWN former cities (EDIT: cities' COUNTRYSIDES) into oblivion. By the time they can bombard en masse anyways, your production isn't going to be greatly affected by this tactic since you'll likely have a good-sized core. It's just a huge irritant. Bombarding a city IMO is incredibly smart because they can bring down your entire defenses, thereby enabling a much swifter capture of the city.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and how can you affect the production of a city any more than by bombarding it directly, removing improvements (ala factories etc.), and by decreasing the population? Bigtime, bigtime

to changing the AI behavior on this.

Traelin · November 18, 2003, 11:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt

Irrigated deserts with an oasis produce 3 food for most civs, 4 food for agricultural civs (both subject to the depotism tile penalty). Normal deserts remain unchanged from PTW - except that agricultural civs can irrigate and have them jump from 0 to 2 food.

Catt

I'm using the Dutch ATM, and I'm almost positive (haven't played in a couple days) that my irrigated and railroaded deserts (w/out oases) are producing 3 food. That's one better than it used to be. Let me recheck it though.

Traelin · November 18, 2003, 11:34

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
I did not measure the range, but it sure seem to be plenty far enough. I rebase to another contient with no probelm. Each time a rebase, I expect to find it was not allowed, but that never happened.

I play on huge maps, so maybe that is why I have had rebasing issues. Either way I like the change, because it just feels more realistic.

player1 · November 18, 2003, 11:50

Agricultureal civs, like Dutch, produce extra +1food when irrigrating deserts.

So that gives 3 food with railroaded desert.

Pretty cool (especialy in Mesopotamia scenario were Egyptians are Agricultural).

Catt · November 18, 2003, 11:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Traelin

I'm using the Dutch ATM, and I'm almost positive (haven't played in a couple days) that my irrigated and railroaded deserts (w/out oases) are producing 3 food. That's one better than it used to be. Let me recheck it though.

Agricultural civ + irrigated desert = 2 food.

Ag civ + Irr desert + RR = 3 food.

Catt

Traelin · November 18, 2003, 11:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt

Agricultural civ + irrigated desert = 2 food.

Ag civ + Irr desert + RR = 3 food.

Catt

Ahh Catt,

for the clarification. Well that is awesome IMO. Now it really is gonna be hard for me to play a non-Agr Civ because I always seem to end up having my initial city core in deserts.

BTW, is there a Mil./Agr. Civ now? I'm being lazy and don't feel like looking it up.

kring · November 18, 2003, 14:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Traelin

Ahh Catt,

for the clarification. Well that is awesome IMO. Now it really is gonna be hard for me to play a non-Agr Civ because I always seem to end up having my initial city core in deserts.

BTW, is there a Mil./Agr. Civ now? I'm being lazy and don't feel like looking it up.

Aztecs

lockstep · November 18, 2003, 14:20

Aztecs were changed to Mil/Agr.

EDIT: Another crosspost.