a quick question about culture flipping

anteos · November 20, 2003, 09:36

Hi,

Is the starvation the best method to prevent cities flipping back to their previous owners. After taking the city, I starve the population down to 1 and then add citizens of my own.

Is this effective?

Thanks

simone007 · November 20, 2003, 09:48

Nice!

I too use this tactic! Dunno if it's effective, though

Brundlefly · November 20, 2003, 09:51

Adding your own citizens helps, however building cultural improvements immediately, especially Temple, helps the most.

vulture · November 20, 2003, 10:38

IIRC adding your own citizens doesn't help. The probability of a flip to civ X depends on the number of foreign citizens of nationality X (not the fraction of foreign citizens) and the number of tiles in the 21 tile city radius that are under the control of X (within their cultural borders, or with their troops on if you are at war). There are other factors as well which you can't do much about (ratio of distance to capitals, who has produced more culture in the city), and a few you can do something about (stationing troops in the city, avoiding civil disorder, getting WLTKD if possible).

As a rule, you have to wait a long time before you have more culture in that city than the AI produced, so producing culture isn't a big issue. You just need enough to expand your borders once to reduce the number of 'enemy' tiles in your radius. Then starving the city down to one citizen, whilst avoiding civil disorder, is about the best you can do (although starving captured cities seriously messes up the attitude of the parent civ towards you - which can sometimes cause unexpected problems if the city has changed hands a few times). Dig up the cultural flipping formula, and estimate how many troops you need to stop the chance of flipping entirely - sometimes it is too large to bother trying to stop a flip with a garrison (so just park one unit in the city, and a small garrison outside it to re-take the city if it flips).

Arrian · November 20, 2003, 10:50

I starve captured cities, often all the way down to size 1. The exception is if I have a truely massive culture advantage and/or if I expect to completely wipe out that civ within a few turns.

-Arrian

Cookie Monster · November 20, 2003, 11:23

I perform partial starving and rush buy a temple and library asap. Usually works for me.

anarres from CFC has created a culture flip calculator. The link to the calculator is in his sig.

Solomwi · November 20, 2003, 16:45

Starvation works, and while that city isn't producing anything else, keep it out of disorder (iow, once resistance is crushed, swap 'em all to taxmen, unless you can get a couple more shields from one) and build workers. You get maintenance-free workers and it augments the starvation, as long as the pop remains purely foreign. I also rush a temple ASAP, but that's mainly to hamper enemy movement and solidify the border than for the culture value.

vmxa1 · November 20, 2003, 18:22

Are people seeing enough flipping to worry about it?

Rhothaerill · November 20, 2003, 18:29

I haven't had a city flip on me in a very long time. But then I also use the starvation and temple/library tactic (library only if I'm scientific). I don't generally bother to add my own workers for extra pop since those cities generally won't be worth too much anyway.

bongo · November 21, 2003, 06:24

Well, haven't seen many flips lately. Once I learnt how to deal with them they occur in less than 1 in 3 games. I use a combination of the techniques described above, as the situation allows/dictates.

Solomwi · November 21, 2003, 14:36

My flipping problems are mainly with large cities/metros during conquest, especially in the turn or two before taking the enemy capital. A metro next to the capital, in disorder, before I've gotten to rush a temple, is a heck of a threat to flip regardless of the overall culture ratio. Sure, that capital's going to be mine in a turn or two, but it's a nuisance to have to go back and retake the city, killing its puny little rifleman, then re-rush a temple, etc. It's not going to change the overall result, just cause me to divert some forces from the main attack.

bongo · November 21, 2003, 15:23

I never* bother with rushing buildings when the change of a flip is big. Most of the time this means waiting until the resistance is gone and your enemys border have been pushed away from the city in question.

*Rushing an airport or other improvement that are crucial for your campaign will of course be done even if the change of a flip is imminent.

steven8r · November 25, 2003, 01:25

I just had a city 'Flip' on me. I had bombed it down to size 1 before I took it, then I added a couple of my Settlers to it, built/rushed Temple, Library, Cathederal, ResearchLab--from Internet. After it got to size 10--all mine except the original 1 and all happy or content, it flipped back. AND, supposedly, the other civ was 'impressed with my culture' Argh!!!!!

I didn't have any units inside the city. I had parked a few outside--just in case that happened, but it still surprized me when it did. But, it's mine once again. Now I just have to rebuild all the 'Cultural Improvements' again. (and wipe-out the parent civ to make sure that it doesn't happen again.)

bongo · November 25, 2003, 03:47

steven8r, with just 1 foreign citizen in the city a garrison of 1 is enough to prevent a flip. You shouldn't have left it empty. Did the enemy border overlap your city radius BTW? Adding own citizens won't help against a flip.

Solomwi · November 25, 2003, 04:11

I'd also ask what your overall culture ratio was vis a vis the other civ and how close it was to the enemy capital as opposed to your own. Along with border encroachment, those are the major factors I can think of (other than in-city culture ratio, which at that stage is pretty much dependent on just how much culture the enemy had built up when you took it).

Cookie Monster · November 25, 2003, 09:27

Quote:

Originally posted by bongo
steven8r, with just 1 foreign citizen in the city a garrison of 1 is enough to prevent a flip. You shouldn't have left it empty. Did the enemy border overlap your city radius BTW? Adding own citizens won't help against a flip.

That does make sense. It is important to have at least one unit defending the city and keeping the populace in line.

Theseus · November 25, 2003, 21:18

BTW, there is a HUGE added benefit to starving cities down now, almost on the verge of being an exploit: Specialists.

(But what a PITA to keep re-setting them each turn!)