Interested in a C3C TOURNAMENT?

MarkG · November 21, 2003, 22:11

post if you are

1st tournament is up
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=102747

sign up for the second one
list of players here
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...28#post2527928

MarkG · November 21, 2003, 22:24

first thoughts for a speedy lets-see-how-it-goes tournament....

16 players at 8 1-on-1 games(4 games on the second round, 2 on the third + 1 final)

tiny pangea games using the new tournament type mode(it enforces the default rules)

Inverse Icarus · November 21, 2003, 23:53

1 on 1 isn't civ.

Wittlich · November 22, 2003, 02:05

Though Uber is right - 1 on 1 isn't MP civ .... Sure Markos, I'll throw my name out into the arena (who knows, maybe I'll get lucky.

)

MarkG · November 22, 2003, 02:09

hmmmm ok, i'll bite. why isnt 1-on-1 civ?

Wittlich · November 22, 2003, 02:42

Touche' Markos. You are right, by definition MP civ is two or more players. Hell, my only LAN games are against myself, my partner, and 4-5 bots....and we've had some great games. I guess my only question is: If we're playing one-on-one, are there any bots (AIs)? If so, then EXCELLENT. If not...well, it seems rather lack luster. But then, I've never played one-on-one with NO Ai's so I can't judge....but a one-on-one w/o AI's seeems rather boring...but like I stated earlier, the good-luck/chance factor could kick-in...

Snotty · November 22, 2003, 05:13

There is certainly a degree of luck to winning a 1on1, and a winner should be magnanimous in his victory and admit it if he got a lucky start. The luck factor can allow a worse player to win, but only if he exploits it well. This is a good thing IMO.

I would be interested but a few questions first.

What patch version are you playing? Im not sure the patch is out for all countries yet.

What time would you be thinking of starting? Im GMT and should perhaps have a bit of a nap this afternoon if its going to run late.

Sim moves right? Turn based could work with just two players, but sim is just so much faster and the c3c tweaks to it are most welcome.

Also, I have a new router since last time I played MP so my ports and what not might need a fiddle.

BigFree · November 22, 2003, 06:02

I'm in.

GhengisFarb™ · November 22, 2003, 09:14

I would be willing to try it out but cannot guarantee my firewall will allow it.

Inverse Icarus · November 22, 2003, 13:45

1 on 1 (with no AIs) isn't civ (IMHO) for various reasons.

1. there is no diplomacy. unless you *BOTH* happen to be aiming for that space race, the other player is going to swarm you with some low-level unit within the first 50 turns, and if you dont swarm him, or defend like crazy, you lose.

2. there is a lot more luck with 1 on 1s, althogh luck is a major part of civ.

3. in 1 on 1's, the game can become fairly calculated. yes, we've all read "the corruption threads" and the "city spacing thread", but there are some people who actually figured those out, and can mathematically prove that their builds are the best ones. this becomes a lot more prevelent in 1 on 1's, especially when swarming with horsemen will be the way to go.

various others i dont feel the need to type.

Snotty · November 22, 2003, 14:51

1. Losing diplomacy is an unfortunate side effect of 1on1s.

You have to strike balance between swarm, defend and expand just like any game of civ. Neglect them and you will lose, just like any game of civ.

2. It also forces you to make the most out of rough starts as you cant just quit and start over. It will make you a better player if you have to struggle against the odds.

3. If someone can do their ultra calculated build under the time pressures of head to head games, then they deserve the victory.

As for swarming, offense is the best defense. If you are the one being swarmed and you cant defend well, then I guess your opponent got the edge on you.

Im suprised theres not been more interest in this today. Are some of the Poly greats all mouth and no trousers?

MarkG · November 23, 2003, 04:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Wittlich
If we're playing one-on-one, are there any bots (AIs)? If so, then EXCELLENT.

my basic definition of 1-on-1 is that two humans compete each other. i didnt have in mind to put in a rule of no ai. now if you want to put in some ai's, thats fine be me

MarkG · November 23, 2003, 04:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Snotty
What patch version are you playing? Im not sure the patch is out for all countries yet.

there is currently no patch that alters game rules. just some translations fixes...

Quote:

What time would you be thinking of starting?

when the games will occur will be up to the two opponents

Quote:

Sim moves right?

yes that is my thought too

Quote:

Also, I have a new router since last time I played MP so my ports and what not might need a fiddle.

the manual mentions the following ports: 6667, 3783, 27900, 28900, 29900, 29901, 13139, 6500, 2302, 6703, 2302-2400

MarkG · November 23, 2003, 04:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Uber KruX
you with some low-level unit within the first 50 turns, and if you dont swarm him, or defend like crazy, you lose.

how about a "peace for 200 turns" rule?

BigFree · November 23, 2003, 15:21

Whoa, that's not a good rule. Maybe for the first 50-60 turns, maybe....

If you wait 200 turns, some Civ's UU's will have come and gone. I do suggest that rule about Civ selections be made. Something like each opponent picks the other guys Civ; or it's random.

Franses · November 23, 2003, 16:51

I have quite some experience with civ3 one to one games (see the old one to one threads). Luck has hardly ever played a role in the games I played. And every one of them was great fun to me and my opponents. The only problem we met was the long time needed to finish a game, even a one to one game. Some people just do not have sufficient time and discipline to finish. But apart from that.... it's great fun. I do not have c3c yet but I am glad to see that people start multiplaying again here on Apolyton.

Good luck and lot's of fun to you all. I will certainly buy c3c and join if there are sufficient people that enjoy this type of game.

Swissy · November 23, 2003, 21:52

I'll play.

Forced peace may not be a good idea. Even 50 turns may take you out of the time where some ancient UU's are effective. Minimum starting distances were beefed up to take the edge off of early rushes.

Tiny pangea map is fine, with 70% ocean a nice setting. One setting I find almost manditory for online games is accelerated production, games just move to slowly without it. Also, I recommend the fast timer setting, as the timer slows as the civs grow larger.

What victory conditions will be used?

MarkG · November 24, 2003, 01:13

200 turns: ok, make it 30-40 or something

70% ocean? lots of sea to travel = longer games?

BigFree · November 24, 2003, 15:15

With pangea, you don't need to travel the Ocean to find your opponent. I like those settings mentioned above.

Conqueror · November 24, 2003, 16:02

Since there seems to be so many free places i could come in to take a dive in the first round

donZappo · November 24, 2003, 16:10

Now picking your opponent's civ sounds pretty funny. A tiny, 1v1, pangaea map? Which civ is seafaring/expansionist again? Heh. Maybe it would work better if a pool of civs that would be competitive was created and the civs were randomly picked from that. Of course, this would be only if choosing your own civ was deemed bad in some way, which I'm not entirely convinced of.

heysewa · November 24, 2003, 19:00

Current C3C multi-player has more diplo on the scarcer resources than PTW. Also 1 vs 1 with no comps invalidates the Great Library. I would be up for a tournament no matter what the rules. Normally when I play multi-player I prefer 5 or more players.

Most Multi-player games end as last man standing due to time constraints or conquest in late middle ages or earlier.

Haven't tried the victory point settings yet, except for one game using the tournament rules. The turn limit on that was too short to make any judgements, other than the turn limit set in file loaded was too short (100 turns).

Auguste

The Slayer · November 25, 2003, 00:40

Interested.. yes!, I'm, but by my "red ping" connection, I can't join in a internet MP.

However, if I can just suggest, for the ones like me that hve terrible Internet connections

or theie wirewall doesn't allow them.. we could me some MSN-PBEM games.

Let me explain. It' the same as all the PBEM's with the difference that the players are on-line a lot of time to pass the *.sav file to the next one and so on. Surely it'll delay a little more, but this opens the doors for all the ones that can't afford for Sppedy connections.

notyoueither · November 25, 2003, 02:50

I'll give it a go.

Krasny · November 25, 2003, 08:46

i am interested in a tourney

Adagio · November 25, 2003, 09:42

Sounds interesting, though:

1. I haven't played any Civ MP games (Except for the PBEM games I play), so I don't know how my ping is in the game... and stuff like that
2. i suck at this game... Usually I only play on regent/Monarch (Mostly regent)

And what is "new tournament type mode" ?

How long time does an average game with those settings take?

MarkG · November 25, 2003, 12:53

Quote:

i suck at this game

dont worry, you sound better than me

Quote:

And what is "new tournament type mode" ?

according to the manual it enforces the default(or the host's?) rules on all players no matter what mods they may have

Snotty · November 25, 2003, 13:31

Ive tested my ports and I can certainly join someones game, although I havent tested to see if I can host yet.

Any chance I could get my name on that list?

Adagio · November 25, 2003, 14:07

Before adding me to the list, I'd want to know how long a such game would take approx...

... I don't have much time on my hands during the next month. Thursday we get our programming project, which we've only got one month to finish. I don't know how big this project is yet, so I don't know how much time I actually has to play...

MarkG · November 25, 2003, 14:19

if there is no ocean between players, i'm confident on 2-3 hours games. experiences anyone?