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RocMaster · May 31, 2000, 18:14

This is gonna be a Diplomatic Front 8. If we can get enough players.

I am thinking Emperor level, raging hordes, not decided on a map yet. definatly 2x2x... but may consider 2x1x.

I can most likely convince 2 people to play this game, and to put a post in here.

In all likely matters, this will be my last game... For I am CONSIDERING retirement.

Curumbor Elendil · June 1, 2000, 08:05

I strongly advise playing 1x1x. A diplo game is supposed to last until A.C., & you don't want global warming.

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

suas333 · June 1, 2000, 15:33

I think it might nice for a change to have a 2x production. I'm sure they can work out treaties and/or punishment for civs that are too polluted.

RocMaster · June 1, 2000, 15:40

Actually, I have never had a problem with pollution under 2x. Mostly because I usually have plenty of settlars about... more than enough really. And It will last to A.C. The reason I don't like 1x production is that it is soooo slow.

Curumbor Elendil · June 1, 2000, 16:09

Well, you're gonna be playing the same number of turns, whether it's 1x or 2x.

1x allows things to build up, lets the majestic plot unfold. Or something like that. 1x would require a lower barb level though. Nothing more disappointing about a dip game than watching everyone get mowed down by barb legions and being unable to do anything about it.

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

vlad · June 1, 2000, 18:26

Well Roc because you suck so bad I will give you one more chance to beat me

All kidding aside,it will be sad if you quit Roc so I am hoping a diplo game will help you out. I am willing to play,2x1x I think would be a fun twist on the current slow Diplo games,perhaps a new trend will be set.Mutual help for pollution problems seems more realistic anyway.I have played 99% of my games at king so Emp will be a real challenge for me.When do we start?

suas333 · June 1, 2000, 19:10

I'm in, what time and what day are we going to play each week?

RocMaster · June 1, 2000, 20:36

Ok, I am glad to see you guys are interested. This will be my retirement game... I will only attend tribe games when called for after this. OzzyKP, berzerker, and cucumber are interesed, and I am glad you guys are too. It will be a world map. I am around Saturday,I would be around tommorow, but I have a party to attend, till 11 pm central time. how about you all?

[This message has been edited by RocMaster (edited June 01, 2000).]

markusf · June 1, 2000, 21:16

2x is an order of magnitude slower then 1x for a diplogame. The simple reason being that you produce soo much units that have to be moved. And after a while the science rate in 2x is the same as a 1x game.

suas333 · June 1, 2000, 21:46

don't know about saturday, we need a time that every week we could attend.

June 2, 2000, 00:11

I'm available any day except wednesday - I do have a tribe game this friday and I'm subbing in Dip VII monday. Can we set this up for once a week on the same day?

vlad · June 2, 2000, 01:22

I can change my schedule,sunday I have tribe for a few hours though

Empress · June 3, 2000, 01:57

I would that that any sacrifice that must be made to have 2x production would be worth it, drawing from my experiences in the other two...

RocMaster · June 3, 2000, 09:16

What about wednesday? I am open for about 2 or 3 hours that night at 6 or 7 pm central time.

RocMaster · June 4, 2000, 17:46

Duh!! berzerk, I had a brainfart...

I can't do Tuesday, but berzerk can't do monday or wednesday, so what about thursday. I am good that day at 6pm to 9pm central. Oh and TheCapo wants to join. Oh, and I think I might move to Restless... some of you been saying that it would be much better since we will be on Emperor. It doesn't matter to me, but what about you guys?
[This message has been edited by RocMaster (edited June 04, 2000).]

The Capo · June 4, 2000, 20:26

Hey, this is the Capo (Spanish from Diplo VII) and I am very interested in joining your diplo game, I will make it fun believe me.

But you guys are a little confused, one diplogames are supposed to be single production and single movement, no excuses. Doesn't matter if there is no pollution, it just isn't supposed to be like that. Since it is a very lame diplogame without seven civs, there should be seven humans. King or Emporer mode (since there is no AI it sorta doesn't matter too much).

The rules for the diplogame should be the following:

1) No war until 1000 bc whatsoever.
2) All units are available, all wonders are normal rate, production and movement is at normal rate, everything is normal.
3) On World.mp, with regular starting positions, but for a better game you should plan out who everyone is going to be in advance.
4) War cannot be used as a first option, always diplomacy first, if initial diplomacy doesn't work take the issue to international opinion. Only then should war be used.
5) No conquering of civs period, no civs should ever be destroyed even AI. Most of the time territory lost in war should be returned, unless the international community sees differantly, or there are mitigating circumstances.
6) Try not to form too many alliances, they cause war too easily.
7) No fake me out names such as "Metalheads" (Sorry Ozzy) people complain about such small details that it ruins part of the game.

I would like to play in Diplo VIII, it seems to be taking a lot of attention from Diplo VII as TheNothing, Moker, Roc, Me and others want in on this game, we should have a meeting at the zone or something ot get all of the wrinkles out of this one, I say that is where we decide on when we start. Any suggestion as to when Diplo8 meeting should take place?

June 4, 2000, 21:03

Actually Roc, mondays are open for me, only wednesdays present a problem.

OzzyKP · June 4, 2000, 21:23

To address Capo's points, and those of others.

1. No war till 1000, sounds good.

2. yea, sounds good.

3. i strongly advocate a large world with random resources and starting positions. If we have traditional starts, we will all end up being in the same spot, random assures that we will be spread out more. Some people whine about having to start in australlia or s america, but i think it adds interesting flavor to the game. I'm in australlia in Diplp VII, and i like it.

4. yea

5. yea

6. eh, do what you want, but one constant throughout time is creating a balance of power, if everyone is allied together, or all against one or something it doesn't make sense.

7. i don't know anyone who has complained about my names. i think i roleplay it excellently, and my theme adds alot of playabilty, humor, and fun to the game. i don't see my being the metalheads cheapening the game at all, i play as if they are a real nation like the english or something. i support anyone with well developed roleplayable themes.

and as for the production and movement factors, i strongly push for 1x1x. These games aren't supposed to be finished in a sitting, or even in a week or two. they are long ordeals, played slowly and completly. with double production it changes the game immensely, who needs harbors and granararies when your cities have a food surplus of 15? it changes everything. i insist on having it 1x1x if we want to make this a true diplo game.

i would prefer diety, but yea, it is a pain in the ass at times, so emporer is good too.

and we need the one turn warning before an attack rule. and make sure everyone knows about it. and make sure everyone knows that anyone who breaks the rules set forth at the beginning will be expelled from the game and replaced.

also, we need to be sure everyone has the skill and drive to make some excellent posts. capo is a shinning example of excellent posts in diplo VII, i look forward to reading them. everyone in the game needs to post regularly and to the best of their ability. if everyone forgets or if their posts are "i am allied with japan, i attacked the mongols, and i built mikes" it just brings down the game.

just a few of my thoughts. i really want to get this game going seven had a few problems in that alot of the people in it weren't entirely familiar with diplo games and weren't willing to learn.

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Metalhead Greater Sayen, and all 'round nice guy

vlad · June 4, 2000, 23:10

Well I am still interested Roc just tell me when. As far as the rules go,well make em what you want Roc,its your game,nothing is set in stone as far as rules. I like the idea of a world map,but definately a good thing to declare civ before we start so we know how to play. 1x1x still sucks no matter what anyone says

May the Vamp civ live forever.

The Capo · June 6, 2000, 08:49

Look, Diplomatic front seven is really stupid. People are arguing over stupid **** all the time, and it is pissing me off.

I would like to join Diplomatic 8, I have already talked with Ozzy about ending Dip 7, but I don't think we should do it. Its just that people are acting childish and they hardly post. I would advise Dip 8 to post well and keep a constant schedule.

I dunno, but definantly count me, The Capo, The_Hapsburg, NKreefer@aol.com, in on Diplomatic Front 8

RocMaster · June 6, 2000, 09:06

Thanks for you comments on how I should run this diplomatic 8. Unfortunatly, eversince I was in the Army, I didn't apperciate invited guests to come in and immediatly give the rules of this game, even if they are proposals. You should clarify them with the person who invited you to begin with. *cough* the capo. While I enjoyed your ideas, some are not fit to me or the others who have already agreed to the settings made.
Anywho, I will evaluate 2x1x, and 1x1x, and let you know what we will go with. The fact is, 2x1x, will give us a chance to utilize certain wonders, like oracle and great wall, before they are cancelled out. The fact of harbors and graneries are still needed in 2x1x, but at a later date, and when it doesn't hurt your economy to put your efforts into just building on of them. While also in 2x1x, you can use more terrian and not be so limited to where you station your cities, for instance, you can use the forests of Russia in advantage, as high industrial areas.

There will be one rule set in place though. That is if your country is producing pollution, for each 5 turns that you have pollution in one spot, you will be fined some money. depending on your economical status. But since this shouldn't be a problem, since you will be able to spit out settlars fast, don't worry.

As to Capo's rule of no war before 1000 bc. It would be good, but there will be territorial conflicts, maybe even early on, that can't be solved any other way. But that is up to whatever treaties of alliances are produced in the game. For example like the PAA, there will be less wars, if you have such alliances, to keep big countries, that are bullies from getting to big for their own good.

I don't like standard starting posistions, A. because it sucks, and I already decided on random. B. because I would kill you all before you even had fuedalism. C. Because it is a bad advantage for someone who is America, and on two continets by himself.

But not until yesterday, did I hear mostly good things coming from those who like the idea of 2x1x, since it seems most Dipl vets. are tired of 1x1x. I will evaluate, the only trouble is, I don't want to be mowed of by barbs, because I don't have enough time to rush buy a phalanx or pikeman, under 1x1x. I will give it some consideration and let you know what I think on the matter.

Oh, and as for no conquering of civs period? now come on!! If you were to attack me, i would destroy every last city you had, plus destruction is part of human nature, it is in our blood to destroy one another. Take the Greeks, Romans, Zulu's, Celtics, Carthiginians, Mongol's. All were destroyed. If you don't want your civ destroyed, I would suggest, not to get into situations where that is gonna happen, like pissing off a MUCH MUCH bigger civ. Of course I don't think that will happen... I plan to play with some civilized, descent players. that will make this an interesting diplo game.

[This message has been edited by RocMaster (edited June 06, 2000).]

The Capo · June 6, 2000, 14:38

I am cool with 2x1x (not that it matters to Mr. Army here) because the only problem I had was the double movement, because as a newer player that kinda screws up my idea of military strategy a bit.

I would love to play this game, and I think we should destroy the Hellacious diplo 7 game and try and get this one started by the week's end, and we should probably decide upon a weekly schedule.

As for ROC, I apologize if I came off as being rude. But I was under the impression that this game had numerous players, not just one!

RocMaster · June 6, 2000, 14:48

Well, I think Thursday sounds good... what about everyone else? This Thurday, I can be around from about 6 pm to 9 pm est. Next Thursday, I can be on all night.

The Capo · June 6, 2000, 15:40

Thursday sounds great to me, so this Thursday we start?

vlad · June 6, 2000, 18:34

Roc thurs. is kewl with me.Like I said before,just tell me the rules and I will come with the playing boots on.

common_terry · June 6, 2000, 23:15

will u kick people out of the game because they attack someone?

RocMaster · June 7, 2000, 15:39

I don't care what a person decides to do. As long as they are willing to recieve the punishment they will take from it. War is war, unless, in the game we make rules for wars, like the Geneva Convintions, I have no problems with what you do. Civ2 is made so power can change over time, if you are militarilistic, and build lots of horsemen, and fight, and take a few cities, you might become the most powerful, but if your enemy get chivilary, and with only 1/3 the men you used in the beginning takes back lost territory and drives you all the way to your capital, that is how it works.

Only thing is, I want you to record each battle, and give it a name, and a brief summary. Name it either by, the Nearest city, or land form. Like rivers or mountains. It doesn't have to be alot, but just a brief summary of the battle. IF, though your tactics drive people from continueing the game, if they are such babies as that, then we may ask you to leave. But if you take a city, I think you should keep it. Unless you have some morale obligation to giving it back. Glad you brought it up common.

RocMaster · June 7, 2000, 15:46

ok, so here it is...

World Map, 2x1x, Emperor, I think I will go with Restless tribes, unless you have an objection. and the # of civs as humans. random starts and resources.

Please pick your civs.. ahead of time so we don't have people complaining that they didn't get their preferred civ.

RocMaster- Greeks
TheCapo- Romans (your welcome)
OzzyKP- I bet $100 the Indians
RaiderVlad- I bet again the Japanese
Bezerker-
Suas333-

That is six players, if there is a 7th, you have until tommorow to let you know you are in.

We start tommorow, Thursday, at 7pm central time. I can play to 9pm. We will then continue the next Thursday, unless everyone agrees to an earlier date, at 7pm central, and I can go till midnight on that night, and every other night after that.

See ya there... if you have a problem with the time, please let me know today...

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"You can stop me on the defense, or even in the battle , but you will NEVER stop me on the from taking that hill."
-Rommel

The Capo · June 7, 2000, 19:55

Thank you very much ROC, this Naples born wop is very happy with your graciousness.

The Capo · June 7, 2000, 20:32

Okay well thanks a lot for letting me in on your little tete-a-tete, I really appreciate it because Diplo 7 is basically shot to **** so far.

If I have someone in mind to take the last spot would you agree? His name is King_Richard1 in the zone, he is good enough and he plays like a diplogame should be played. Anyway see ya tommorow at seven on the dot!

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"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

-Winston Churchill

One Love.