History Channel says LBJ killed JFK - Page 2

GhengisFarb™ · November 23, 2003, 12:02

Anyway, here's wishing good luck to the Kennedy's new project of breeding bullet proof presidential candidates from Arnold and Maria.

Ned · November 23, 2003, 14:28

Two hit Kennedy. One hit Connally. One hit a bystander near the underpass. That's four, unless one could be a single bullet.

Thus the magic, single bullet theory. Even Specter says that this could be mistaken because he was working from a sketch, not the photos and other autopsy materials.

Oswald shot three times.

Ned · November 23, 2003, 14:31

If you look at the Zapruder film with the shots as recorded by the "open mike," it appears that Connally got hit almost at the same time as the Kennedy head shot. The two shots "overlapped" as did the first two shots.

Lung · November 23, 2003, 19:30

Am i missing something here? Yesterday i saw on TV supposed evidence that the same bullet killed JFK and the other guy in the presidential car.

Like i've always said - no one can be 100% sure except the person/s responsible. Americans are crazy, so anything's possible

chequita guevara · November 23, 2003, 20:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
Two hit Kennedy. One hit Connally. One hit a bystander near the underpass. That's four, unless one could be a single bullet.

Thus the magic, single bullet theory. Even Specter says that this could be mistaken because he was working from a sketch, not the photos and other autopsy materials.

Oswald shot three times.

Could be mistaken. But the magic bullet could do exactly what it the WC claims it did. Bullets bounce around inside people all the time.

Odin · November 23, 2003, 21:12

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb

A CIA kill team got an order from high up to kill JFK that day and at that spot.

The route and security was specifically set up to make it happen.

JFK was hit my multiple bullets.

I've heard that Bush Sr. (Who was in the CIA at the time, wasn't he?) might have been involved. RFK's anti-racism stance also must of made them both targets of southern hate groups. Connally was a Democrat, right?

Odin · November 23, 2003, 21:16

Ned, thanks for taking Oswald off my suspect list.

Ned · November 23, 2003, 23:14

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Could be mistaken. But the magic bullet could do exactly what it the WC claims it did. Bullets bounce around inside people all the time.

Bouncing around could explain how a bullet could be fired from above Kennedy, enter his back below the shoulder blade, and then exit at the bottom of his neck. The trajectory is UP from between the two points, not down or flat, assuming that Kennedy was sitting upright, looking to the right and waving at the time he was hit as the Zapruder film suggests.

But there is no way that a bullet flying up could have hit Connally - that is, unless Kennedy were bending over at the time. He did bend over in the Zapruder film, but after the first shot. If there was such a first shot that missed Kennedy, this might have been the bullet that hit the bystander.

There is still another possibility. The bullet hit Kennedy from the front and travelled down to exit from the back. This would be very consistent with a shooter on top of the overpass. The surgeons who tried to save Kennedy said the hole in his throat was a clean, small hole typical of an entry wound. They widened it to form a tracheotomy.

chequita guevara · November 23, 2003, 23:28

It's funny how you always call me a conspiracy theorist when I have all kinds of documentary evidence, but all you have is pure speculation about LBJ.

Ned · November 24, 2003, 00:12

Che, I admit it! You got me.

It's just that my Dad said LBJ did it when it happened. I was talking to my wife who was born in Brazil. Apparently, her Dad said the same thing to her.

It is interesting, is it not, that LBJ did not take Bobby Kennedy as VP in '64 even though he wanted it very badly and the vast majority of all Democrats wanted it too? LBJ was so far ahead in the polls that he could have won the election with any VP choice. But the most popular was Kennedy. And LBJ said no.

Sikander · November 24, 2003, 00:38

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
The CIA shot him. It was most likely ordered by LBJ as he had the most motive.

However................

The Secret Service set up the route for the CIA to nail him and there is a strong possibility that the KGB and Mob (both of whom had very legitimate reasons to off him) discovered the potentional kill spot in the route and had their own kill teams there not realizing the CIA kill team was already going to off him.

He probably got shot by three different kill teams working for three different interests. Lee Harvey was just a stooge, I think he was a CIA stooge, but he could have been set up by someone else.

How many people does it take these days to kill a President of the United States?

John Dillinger just before he fired the fatal shot from the Grassy Knoll.

Sikander · November 24, 2003, 00:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned

Bouncing around could explain how a bullet could be fired from above Kennedy, enter his back below the shoulder blade, and then exit at the bottom of his neck. The trajectory is UP from between the two points, not down or flat, assuming that Kennedy was sitting upright, looking to the right and waving at the time he was hit as the Zapruder film suggests.

But there is no way that a bullet flying up could have hit Connally - that is, unless Kennedy were bending over at the time. He did bend over in the Zapruder film, but after the first shot. If there was such a first shot that missed Kennedy, this might have been the bullet that hit the bystander.

There is still another possibility. The bullet hit Kennedy from the front and travelled down to exit from the back. This would be very consistent with a shooter on top of the overpass. The surgeons who tried to save Kennedy said the hole in his throat was a clean, small hole typical of an entry wound. They widened it to form a tracheotomy.

TaKe a physics class sometime Ned and learn a few things about momentum and angles of incidence. Bones are round and hard, which means that it is very difficult to predict which way a bullet will bounce off of a bone. It can come straight back the way it came, among many other possibilities. None of the evidence I have seen in defense of the single gunman theory fails the plausibility test. Bullets can do some crazy things. They can penetrate several people. Bullets fired from Mausers were found to penetrate an average of 7 bodies, and one penetrated 13 bodies during tests at one of the German conentration camps during WW2, and yes they used live people for the tests. They can ricochet in wildly different directions, and most rifle bullets are destroyed by impact (for forensic purposes) against any sort of hard surface like a roadway or a building.

Was there a conspiracy to kill the POTUS? Possibly, but it would have to be a very small conspiracy to have survived all of this time. Someone would have already talked by now if this was something that was done by the government or the mob IMO. So I tend to think that Oswald acting alone is the most likely, with a small conspiracy at less than a 30% chance, and a large conspiracy (like the one where LBJ is ordering guys in the CIA to do the deed, complete with bureacratic paper trails) at almost 0% probability.

chequita guevara · November 24, 2003, 18:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
Che, I admit it! You got me.

It's just that my Dad said LBJ did it when it happened. I was talking to my wife who was born in Brazil. Apparently, her Dad said the same thing to her.

Given that JBJ absoutely hated the Kennedys, and the return feeling wasn't very amicable either, I don't find it strange that many people would rush to judgement. Nor do I find it strange that he didn't want Bobby on the ticket. The two didn't get along at all.

SlowwHand · November 24, 2003, 18:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
Right now, 4 pm Pacific, Nov. 22, the HST Channel is re-running the special report allegeding that LBJ was behind the assassination.

A) That's bullshit.
B) Oswald didn't make fantastic shots. It was mundane, for a sniper.

chequita guevara · November 24, 2003, 18:36

It was unusual in two aspects, Sloww. The shots were fired while the Prez was moving away, which is harder than when the target is apporching. Also, it was the 3rd shot which was the most accurate, when usually it is the first and each subsequent shot gets less accurate.

SlowwHand · November 24, 2003, 18:38

He still wasn't any distance, coming or going.
And who can speak for a nut case like Oswald?
He was relatively calm throughout.

rah · November 24, 2003, 18:45

It's time for the magic loogie.

Jac de Molay · November 24, 2003, 19:35

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb

What we do know:
A CIA kill team got an order from high up to kill JFK that day and at that spot.

The route and security was specifically set up to make it happen.

JFK was hit my multiple bullets.

What we don't know:
Who the higher up was that gave the order but it had to be someone at White House level (President/Cabinet) due to the format and coding of the order.

Look, the government didn't do it. That is just major tinfoil hat material.

If anything, the CIA and intelligence were covering up because they were embarassed about their ties to the Anti-Castro/Mob Axis who crossed paths with Oswald, and the fact they had assembled a sizable file on Oswald but failed to stop him.

POTUS · November 24, 2003, 20:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Sikander
Was there a conspiracy to kill the POTUS?

There is a conspiracy to kill me?? Why didn't anyone tell me??

Berzerker · November 24, 2003, 21:26

Quote:

It's just that my Dad said LBJ did it when it happened.

That was the immediate reaction of my folks too.

Sikander · November 24, 2003, 22:15

Quote:

Originally posted by POTUS

There is a conspiracy to kill me?? Why didn't anyone tell me??

Sorry, I thought you were in on it too.

mindseye · November 24, 2003, 23:18

Sorry, Ned, I just can't take you seriously anymore after you claimed in that other thread that Hilary Clinton was responsible for the solar flares that damaged that Japanese space probe.

Boris Godunov · November 25, 2003, 00:18

What, no one mentions the obvious fake autopsy photos?

Boris Godunov · November 25, 2003, 00:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Sikander
None of the evidence I have seen in defense of the single gunman theory fails the plausibility test. Bullets can do some crazy things.

Oh no? Use your eyes. Tell me how a bullet that hits Kennedy from directly behind him with enough force to blow a quarter of his head off sends him reeling backwards instead of forwards. What kind of bullet does that?

ravagon · November 25, 2003, 00:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Oh no? Use your eyes. Tell me how a bullet that hits Kennedy from directly behind him with enough force to blow a quarter of his head off sends him reeling backwards instead of forwards. What kind of bullet does that?

Depends on how he's balanced really. Generally speaking the overall 'momentum' transferred from a bullet to a human body isn't that large.
Most of the effect comes from the knee-jerk reaction of the target to recoil away from the axis of attack. This reaction is non-existent if one is killed instantly.

That said though, dum-dum rounds (the most likely candidate to cause such extensive tissue damage) aren't generally known to be aerodynamically efficient.
ie: Not the sort of thing one would normally use when sniping from a fair distance ...

Berzerker · November 25, 2003, 03:57

Quote:

Tell me how a bullet that hits Kennedy from directly behind him with enough force to blow a quarter of his head off sends him reeling backwards instead of forwards. What kind of bullet does that?

This was shown by a ballistics expert, he placed a skull on a stand and struck it with a bullet. The skull, counter-intuitively, lurched in the direction of the gun, not in the direction of the bullet's continued movement. The force of the skull section blasting off the front/face sent the rest of the skull backwards. I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it myself.

Ned · November 25, 2003, 14:50

Quote:

Originally posted by mindseye
Sorry, Ned, I just can't take you seriously anymore after you claimed in that other thread that Hilary Clinton was responsible for the solar flares that damaged that Japanese space probe.

Mindseye, did I really blame Hillary? I apologize. Except for her mental problems, I actually think she would make a good president. As I said before, her speech in the Senate in support of the Iraq war was the best I heard during that debate.

Ned · November 25, 2003, 14:57

Boris, take a look at picture I posted of Zapruder frame 313. The brain matter blows out to the front-right of Kennedy's head. That does suggest that the bullet came from the rear, disintegrated in his head like a dum dum bullet and blew a huge exit hole his skull. Very little of the brain was left inside Kennedy's skull.