RPG's need an overhaul - Page 3

MrBaggins · December 12, 2003, 19:58

I played 40k. Many years ago.

If I recall correctly, I had Chaos Demons (including GD Of Khorne and Tzeench), Genestealers, Eldars/Harlequins and a few Marine squads, plus a Terminator Marine squad.

My friend painted my stuff free of charge... cos he liked the practice.

Ben Kenobi · December 13, 2003, 02:23

Well, what about Nethack? You die if you don't eat, you shy away from combat , you can even beat the game as a pacifist, or let your pets eat other enemies. You become more skilled with a weapon the longer you use the weapon, while your character attributes improve over time.

As for the thought of making wimpy enemies less valuable, they even have that in Diablo. As you get stronger, the amount of XP you get from another enemiy depends on how different your level is to the creature.

Dis · December 13, 2003, 04:22

all this talk of nethack, and I never played. What's the big deal?

LDiCesare · December 13, 2003, 09:32

Nethack is a quite old RPG. It's basically ascii only, though you can play with tiles.

Things that happen in Nethack:
My current game:
Moi the barbarian recently shapeshifted back from a bone devil after stepping on a polymorph trap. I managed to replace the dwarven mithril coat that was destroyed in the process by a new one.

Here is a list of deaths my characters suffered:
While blind, I groped to check what lay on the floor and touched a chickatrice corpse. I didn't wear gloves, so I was turned to stone. Note that chickatrice and cockatrice corpses make excellent weapons when you wear gloves, as they turn what they touch to stone. Just don't fall down stairs with that in your hand.
I fainted from lack of food while wearing a ring that caused my minion troll and my pet vampire to attack me and kill me (when about 5 squares from the real amulet of Yendor).

Other stuff:
In Nethack, you can eat carrots to cure blindness, eat many things to get special powers. For instance, eat a floating eye corpse and then wrap a towel around your head and you'll be able to detect creatures by telepathy...
And then there is all the business of cursing teleport scrolls on purpose and dipping useless potions into fountains in order to get water that may become holy in order to dip a magical lamp into the holy water so it becomes holy and then you'll be able to rub it and get a wish from a djinn, like getting a nice grey dragon scale mail armour.
And then you can try to polymorph your little dog pet into a dragon.
And then you can also curse a genocide scroll in order to summon wraithes in hope you can eat their corpses to gain a level.
And you mustn't forget to give some money to the priests in order to get some magical protection.

And... there are so many things in Nethack this game is really awesome.

Jamski · December 13, 2003, 09:35

Nethack rules. Its actually based on the D&D system. You can download it from nethack.org for free and its infinitely replayable (random level layouts)

-Jam

LDiCesare · December 13, 2003, 15:11

Quote:

Its actually based on the D&D system

Originally, yes, but it's quite loose. It's 2nd edition AD&D with different professions and the ability for anyone to cast spells... The holy/cursed/uncursed part of the game is not in D&D for instance. It still rules.

Space05us · December 13, 2003, 22:25

go play The Getaway

I hated it, but it sounds like what you anti-hp/mana/levels people would like.

Urban Ranger · December 14, 2003, 00:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski
Yeah I spent a fortune on those figures. Then they revised the rules, half the old figures were disallowed, and the new ones cost sooooooo much. Games Workshop are dirty little money grabbers.

Sounds like Magic: the Gathering

Whoha · December 14, 2003, 02:22

http://www.progressquest.com/

I personally don't like rpgs(after having played a bunch of them). Personal skill should go up, not some number. How to represent that in a game though, meh, I'm not all that big on story either.

Jamski · December 14, 2003, 11:37

Quote:

Sounds like Magic: the Gathering

MUCH more money stealing than even WotC . Those lead alloy minatures cost about 5 pounds for two figures from an original 2 pounds for 4 when I started buying them. Some of them were real works of art though. They blamed an increase in the cost of lead, but really the realised that people would buy Citidael Minatures whatever they cost.

I found out what girls were for about the same time I realised that I was spending too much on minatures

-Jam

LDiCesare · December 14, 2003, 12:08

Quote:

They blamed an increase in the cost of lead, but really the realised that people would buy Citidael Minatures whatever they cost.

Really funny. I remember using molds and the tin+lead alloy used to seal wine bottles to make my own miniatures. Molds were expensive, but if you wanted to make an army and could afford the bottles of wine (or the lead), it ended up quite cheap.

Jaguar · December 15, 2003, 02:01

RPG's are the ultimate of dorkiness.

Urban Ranger · December 15, 2003, 02:10

Thank you for your contribution, JW.

Jaguar · December 15, 2003, 20:57

You're welcome.

Jamski · December 15, 2003, 21:22

TBS single-player-videogames are MORE dorky

-Jam

Jaguar · December 15, 2003, 21:50

Absolutely not. In those you go for interesting goals, whereas in RPG's people are like "oh boy, now I'm up to level 54 instead of level 53! Now 5 more hours of playing and I'll make, gasp, level 55!"

The Mad Monk · December 16, 2003, 01:41

I've played an assortment of clix games -- MageKnight, MK Dungeons, MechWarrior, and HeroClix. I liked them all, though I forced my self to quit after I realized how much time they were taking up -- I was playing four times a week, and when I wasn't playing, I was planning, sorting, and practicing.

self biased · December 16, 2003, 02:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski
Yeah I spent a fortune on those figures. Then they revised the rules, half the old figures were disallowed, and the new ones cost sooooooo much. Games Workshop are dirty little money grabbers.

-Jam

although i won't disagree with your statement about GW being dirty money grabbers, since when did they disalow old miniatures at Grand Tournament? true, it took a while for the land raider to get a resculpt, but it was well worth the wait, and much better than the old one.

as far as i know, the only games workshop/citadel/marauder miniatures that aren't allowed for use in golden demon, grand tournament, or rogue trader events are the Lord of the Rings minis, due to liscening issues provided by new line cinema.

Urban Ranger · December 16, 2003, 02:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
Absolutely not. In those you go for interesting goals, whereas in RPG's people are like "oh boy, now I'm up to level 54 instead of level 53! Now 5 more hours of playing and I'll make, gasp, level 55!"

You must be playing the wrong sort of RPGs.

Jamski · December 16, 2003, 04:16

Quote:

Absolutely not. In those you go for interesting goals, whereas in RPG's people are like "oh boy, now I'm up to level 54 instead of level 53! Now 5 more hours of playing and I'll make, gasp, level 55!"

I thought you wouldn't bite after FOUR :wink: smilies...

Anyway, the thing is that you play RPGs with OTHER PEOPLE and you play TBS on your own. Which is more dorky (bearing in mind most people here do/did/will do both)

Selfbiased : The minatures were never "illegal" sure... the trouble was that they would edit the allowed army lists, so that either you HAD to get new models to make your army work, or your old models were equipped with weapons they couldn't have access to any more, or they changed the size of a squad (bigger) and wouldn't let you buy any of the old minatures the other guys in the squad were. Or they completely reorganised the whole race/nation/army so you could forget about all your old figures (The Empire in Warhammer Fantasy? Imperial Guard in 40K?)

The new Land Raider sucks IMHO. I really liked the "World War One" look of the old model. But that's just my opinion as a man who once made his own scenery from household junk spray-painted in tones of dull gray. (Coke-cans + bendy straws = water/gas tanks)

-Jam

self biased · December 16, 2003, 04:33

are you talking about the transition from rogue trader to second edition, or second to third?

and have you looked at the new guard codex? or seen the new cadian plastics? if anything they're relaxing restrictions on things to make things easier financially on players. instead of being strictly a ten man squad, marines come in 5-10 man squads

and as for 'having' to get new models, well... let's just say that i know a Squat player who religiously takes his well worn army to every GW competition he can, using the Guard rules.

and the old land raider desparately needed an update. the damn thing looked dated a month after its release. besides: my current project is to take a spare one i had laying around (as opposed to the three others i've got) and turn it into a VERY intimidating Leman Russ. it's not just about playing the game. it's a modeler's hobby.

Jamski · December 16, 2003, 05:05

Look at my age

The transiton from rogue trader is the one I'm bichin' about, but the one to the thrid edition was what convinced me to stop buying their products.

New guard codex... this is the point isn't is? You have to get a codex, instead of cutting a page out of the last White Dwarf

Ah, conversions were fun though. I recall building a Whirlwind from a Rhino chassis (what else?) using old bits and pieces. It looked OK, and the missile launcher turned. I bet there's a Whirlwind model now, and it looks really "cartoony"

-Jam

Jaguar · December 16, 2003, 22:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

You must be playing the wrong sort of RPGs.

All RPGs are the wrong sort of RPGs.

(Stop feeding the troll and he will leave

)

Urban Ranger · December 16, 2003, 23:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
All RPGs are the wrong sort of RPGs.

(Stop feeding the troll and he will leave

)

Or I could just, hm...

/me looks at a red button

Jaguar · December 16, 2003, 23:33

Troll will leave.

Jamski · December 17, 2003, 05:28

I hope that wasn't the red button that keeps your pants closed

But this raises the point : Many people see RPG games as "uncool" compared to (for example) FPS games. Why is it "uncool" to be interested in a story and a character and interaction, instead of running through an industrail maze with a mini-gun? Also, I'd have thought that the current success and hype of LotR would lead many people to be interested in "standard fantasy settings" and the games associated with them. Instead the industry has spawned another "clone RTS" and 3 games that are basically FPS (First Person Swordplay) A well done RPG set in Middle Earth would have sold like hot cakes. And we all like hot cakes....

-Jam

Jon Miller · December 17, 2003, 05:30

what RTS?

Jon Millwe

Jamski · December 17, 2003, 05:53

The War of the Ring its called. I saw it in the shop at the weekend. It looks like Warcraft 3 or Dune Emperor.

-Jam

Urban Ranger · December 17, 2003, 07:02

Bah.

Jamski · December 17, 2003, 08:12

Bah?

You're disappointed they didn't use the licence better too?
You're disappointed that you can buy it in Germany?
I considered buying it, as it IS LotR stuff... but then I realised it would be a waste of my cash.

-Jam