Central Military Committee (CMC)

Snowflake · November 25, 2003, 11:30

This thread is created for discussions regarding warfare and homeland defense. People need to familiarize themselves with the following issues: (This is an initial list and should be amended and updated by everybody who has additional thoughts.)

1. Our long term war strategy. Who are our friends, who are our enemies.
2. The preparation of our military force. Including unit design, production and upgrading, prototype trading from other factions, and reseach needs to better our military technology.
3. Production and manipulation of our probe teams as well as allocation of our defense probe teams. Determine which faction to infiltrate, and/or other covert operation. Keep track of our probe foils and rover probe teams.
4. Recreation of other faction's map from info obtained through infiltration. See here for an example of maps that was created by Marshal Rokossovky.
5. Homeland defense against other factions as well as mindworms and alike.

The discussion should happen here and the final desicion should be posted in the command and control thread by whoever is responsible for the CMC.

Jamski · November 25, 2003, 16:58

I am a strong follower of "rover defense" i.e. have best-1-2 rovers in each base to attack approaching units. Also artillery combines very well with this

-Jam

Snowflake · November 25, 2003, 18:10

Deputy Chairman, we need more specific constructive suggestions than this from you. I'm actually hoping that some people would spend a couple hours to come up with suggestions like what prototype units we should try to trade with CC and which scout should be sent to destroy the spore laucher and things like that.

Jamski · November 25, 2003, 21:23

We're going to bribe an Angel's unit I belive to get 2-armour. And the scout next to the spore launcher has just killed it.

We need some weapon techs before we can talk prototypes

-JAm

Snowflake · November 25, 2003, 22:50

Deputy chairman, the purpose of trading prototypes is exactly so that we could avoid having to research the tech (and increase our research cost).

Jamski · November 26, 2003, 06:20

Then we simply need 4-weapons and 3-armour as SOON AS BLOODY POSSIBLE!!!!

-Jam

Vev · November 26, 2003, 07:19

Problem is damn transports. Land raising was mentioned before.

Jamski · November 26, 2003, 07:26

Well, the enemy are coming to us at the moment...

-Jam

Micha · November 26, 2003, 08:28

It´s like the Angels were delivering free prototypes to us, and we don´t even have to leave the house

Jamski · November 26, 2003, 18:04

/me loves Roze's thoughtfullness *

-Jam

Snowflake · November 29, 2003, 01:23

Ok people, please, let's get to work! (Yeay!)

Anybody has any suggestion about what prototype we are after, what prototype could be in the market, what could be obtained free from Drones, what could be bribed from Roze, and what could be traded with CC?

Voltaire · November 29, 2003, 03:04

Alright since no one else will answer I will take over the CMC.

For the time being I think everyone will agree that we need defensive units more so than offensive ones, since we do not have any current invasion plans, and well we have been drawn into a war with the Angels. They have proven to be a threat since they have a transport parked off of our coast. Our defenses frankly are abysmal. We need ?-3-? defense units, we can obtain 3-armor from the Drones, and start building these in our costal bases at first, and then in all the other ones.

Frankly as the Chairman of the Central Military Committee, as well as the Central Continuing Committee, I have no current offensive plans, and well the defense of the Hive remains more paramount than anyone else, therefore let us defend ourselves by constructing better garrison units.

Snowflake · November 29, 2003, 17:45

Are we still planning to capture roze's 2-2-1 unit? Do we need prototype from CC? (maybe sea related?)

Snowflake · November 30, 2003, 00:13

Talked to Kody about capturing the 2-2-1 unit. He said the cost might be quite high. Could be in 100 - 200 ec range.

Voltaire · November 30, 2003, 16:27

In that case we may want to simply go with destroying it via force. We do not possess the tech the angels do, but we can more than outmatch the 1 unit they have sent in number.

Voltaire · November 30, 2003, 21:20

The Marshal has returned and will assume his responsibilities on behalf of the CMC.

Rokossovky · November 30, 2003, 21:21

Yup, I'm here.

dacole · December 1, 2003, 01:40

Welcome back marshal, glad to see you! My advice for the military would be that we use the strategy kody came up with for defense mainly get the tech from the drones as soon as possible, then cash in some of our crawlers for at least one three based unit in each base.

The best defensive strategies I have seen involve two of the best defense in each base with one movement point. A rover with the best defense in every other city, or in such a manner that each city can have one in it in one turn (this assumes each city is conected to all others with roads) and one best attack unit in the same arrangement. If done correctly this should lead to a potential of three best defense units in each city, and one attacking unit.

As head of the department of interior let me know what you need built and by when (year goal would be nice) and I will do my best to see that it gets done. At this point defense trumps all other concerns (population science, ect)

Snowflake · December 1, 2003, 11:56

I don't think we should get the military tech myself. I'm still in favor of getting prototyped units myself. We don't want to unecessarily increase our tech cost if we could help.

Also, the Hive's advantage is massive bases surronding each other so I think 2 police/defense unit should be quite surficient with some flowing reinforcement that could be summoned rapidly. Each unit can only have two special abilities. And one of the special ability should be police (which means we need to get tech II). Another ability should be ECM for one defense unit and AAA for the other.

I will let the Drones know that we are in need of good armor unit right now.

Vev · December 3, 2003, 00:16

While not military planning, the next section is an experimental algorithm for calculating combat odds. Although probably much nicer if I could create/find code to do it.

Combat odds is represented as 'x:y' e.g. '3:2'
Convert this value to:
x/(x+y)

Let p = combat odds represented in same format as above. e.g. 3:2 = 3/5 = 0.6
Let a = your unit's health points
Let b = enemy unit's health points

P(sucess) = SumOf (from 0 to a-1) where (b+n-1 C n) * p^b * (1-p)^n

Avg Hits remaining (needs working) = (SumOf (from 0 to a-1) where (b+n-1 C n) * p^b * (1-p)^n * (a-n)) {/ P(sucess)???}

Snowflake · December 3, 2003, 01:46

Is CMC working on our prototype trade request with CyCon?

Vev · December 3, 2003, 01:53

If anyone wants a glimpse what that means, that says a 3:2 combat with equal health at ten each with result with 80.8% probability of winning to the attacker with on average 36.7% hits remaining. It kinda fits the results I and Kody collected over a combined of hundreds of tests. From my memory a 5:4 results in 70% win I think with 20% hits remaining, although I am not sure about that.

Snowflake · December 3, 2003, 01:58

Nice work Comrade Vev. Are you the only one currently working for the CMC? Have you looked at the upcoming battle against roze's 2-2-1? Or should be simply destroy it at sea?

Vev · December 3, 2003, 02:17

Try to achieve at least 5:4

It would be a close match

Case 1

Hive
armour = 2
sensor 25%
green -12.5%

Rover
Attack = 2
open ground 25%

2.1... : 2 = too close to call
Case 2

Hive
Armour = 2
forest = 50%
sensor 25%
green - 12.5%

Rover
Attack = 2

5:3
quite good

Snowflake · December 5, 2003, 11:36

Marshal and other CMC members, please read my last two posts in the Official: CyCon negotiations thread. Thanks.

Snowflake · March 2, 2004, 00:35

This thread should be used for military discussion. Chairman, would you please top this thread again? Thanks!

Snowflake · March 2, 2004, 01:17

Some ideas for the next turn.

1. Regarding the CC probe. I just checked our turn, we need to build a probe at commzima city. Also we should build a probe at franky's base, the seat of unity and dacole's base.

2. Not sure where did the scout in Roko's base go. Must be lurking around somewhere. We need a replacement for him.

3. Should think about what unit to send to the Peace. I rackon a +3 garrison and a probe and a chopper or penetrator. We cannot transfer the chopper to peace's control yet, in case when CCs conqure their base the CCs will get our chopper design, which they lack right now. Can anybody test to see if they probe a base of peace with our choppers in, can they actually buy our chopper?

4. Need to think about whether we should attack a roze base for peace and let them form the first line of detection for us against the CPU. Some of the applicable roze bases only have one +3 garrison, should be able to be taken with one chopper.

Rubin · March 4, 2004, 01:43

Fellow comrades, based on the allocated and available resources for military production and recruitment please allow me to present a few tentative considerations.

Resource Allocation:
The basis of military recruitment and deployment relies on available resources and production/recruitment facilities. It should be our prime concern to present a 5-10 year allocation plan. Acknowledging the need for infrastructure and future considerations, I suggest a gradual reduction in military spending; from 90-100% while the bulk of our forces are being massed; to 10-25% once significant military superiority has been achieved by mid/late 2160's.

Aerial Supremacy (Composition I):
The Cloudbase Academy provides a tremendous advantage to all our aircraft. The versatility and the flexibility of a strong airforce are not to be underestimated. To this, I suggest that the core of our military operations is to rely on a very, very strong airforce--both in quality and quantity.
Naval dominance is costly and inert. Our aerial range should provide for adequate reconnaissance, defense and light offense near our territorial borders. Enemy warships shall be wasted on naval dominance where we have little interest; effectively reducing the cost/efficiency ratio of enemy resource allocation.
Additionally, a strong aerial presence prevents potential enemies to gain aerial momentum. Our bomber class aircraft may additionally reduce the effectiveness of enemy ground defenses; specifically, increasing our chances of successfully invading and occupying enemy territory.

Flexible Support Troops (Composition II):
Given our aerial supremacy we shall require less resources for landbased troops. Our strongest asset is the ability to airdrop into enemy territory.
Depending on the scale of invasion we would need a mix of strong defenders and flexible and fast attackers. While our newly conquered bases provide adequate anti-aircraft measures, our units--when stationed outside bases--and our access and supply routes are still vulnerable to enemy bombers and interceptors. Simple rovers equipped with surface-to-air particle impactors are relatively cheap and excellent for retaliation; upgraded with missile launchers such rovers carry a high level of flexibility. Additional defensive measures could be provided by heavily armored infantry and strategic probes, etc.
Of course, there are many alternatives; this is simply a highly tentative suggestion.
To ensure efficient military production, I strongly suggest that we decide on the basis of a long-term military production plan.

Further areas of importance are aquisition of military technology, homeland defenses, strategic battleplans, etc. However, the complexity of our military options are closely intertwined with our general concept of progess. Hence, these aspects should be closely coordinated--even in times of peace.

Comrade Rubin (Ex-Commander, Ghost Report Excerpt)

Arnelos · March 4, 2004, 05:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski
I am a strong follower of "rover defense" i.e. have best-1-2 rovers in each base to attack approaching units. Also artillery combines very well with this

-Jam

It's been a long time since I played SMAC/SMAX, but this has largely been what I remember finding effective in the early game, especially when combined with air power (if it is available).

Offensive, speed, and bombardment rock in combination. Having some defensive units around to cover a stack of fast movers doesn't hurt, though. Perhaps we should consider building a few high-defense/low-attack rovers (I think I remember that they're more expensive, but well worth every bit of resources you pour into them).

That said, as long as there's a working road network and you have force superiority (either by quality of troops you can produce or by quantity of troops you can produce), infantry stacks with both high attack and high defense can be devastatingly effective, especially when combined with air power (personally, I found this to be a bit later-game strategy, as infantry units could remain cost effective even when you added all sorts of extra goodies).

It's been a LOOONG time since I played SMAC/SMAX, though, so take anything I say with a pretty heavy grain of salt.

It also seems that we're on the verge of attacking, so this is probably pretty belated anyhow... just responding to threads I see as they pop up.

Snowflake · March 4, 2004, 18:31

Comrade Rubin presented pretty good suggestions. I concur with him that we should lower the resources spent on military units from 90% to about 15% after the Uni war. Currently our military force consists about 10 choppers, 3 penetrators, 1 interceptor, 2 drop rovers, 4 drop probes, 4 drop plasma garrison, 4 plasma garrison, 5 defense probes and large amount of scout infantry. (I still need to double check the exact number of units.) This composition emphasis attack via "chop and drop". My feeling is we've had rather sufficient air force now. We would need to constantly making up for any units that is lost in action.

Also, if we are going to go to war with CC eventually, we need to be prepared that some of their bases (especially the newly conqured PEACE bases) are sea bases where chop and drop will not work. In other words we may need to discuss if we want to create a larger navy force than we currently have.