Science and Society Committee (SSC)

Snowflake · November 25, 2003, 11:51

This thread is created for discussions regarding tech research issues. People need to familiarize themselves with the following issues: (This is an initial list and should be amended and updated by everybody who has additional thoughts.)

1. Determine our research beeline.
2. Determine the next tech to research according our beeline. This involves determine the available tech list.
Which techs we have, how many techs we have, what we can get from Drones, what we don't need since we already have prototypes, what tech can be potentially traded for, etc.
3. Closely follow what other factions have been researching and how far along they are and what is their possible next beeline.
4. Propose potential tech trade and prototype trade with other factions.
5. Determine which techs can be skipped by trading prototypes to minimize research cost.
6. Determine social engineering settings and energy allocations to maxmize research rate.

The discussion should happen here and the final desicion should be posted in the command and control thread by whoever is responsible for this department.

Snowflake · November 29, 2003, 17:49

Somebody needs to work on how to speed up our tech rate. It is slipping. We needed 3 turns to eco eng last turn and we still need 3 turns this turn. The scientists may need some nervestapling or something else that could boost their creativity (like more ec allocation perhaps?) Maybe we need to raise the pay for scientists for it looks like people prefer the doctor carrer than the scientise carreer.

Snowflake · December 1, 2003, 12:14

We really need somebody who could lead this department. We are getting eco eng in 3 turns. We need to know what techs will we do next and make sure it is available. For example, do we want to do enviormental economics? Is it available if we don't trade eco eng with uni? Is it available if we DO trade eco eng with uni? The Minute Mirage/Kody tech availability tool set must be utilized. I would do it myself if nobody else can do it but my time is really limited so I really hope that somebody else could take up this before I get around to do it.

Micha · December 1, 2003, 12:22

Couldn´t we use the turn simulator to check this?

Snowflake · December 1, 2003, 12:55

Yes that's a great idea! Can we simulate both situations?

The only problem with that might be that the simulator is not uptodate. But maybe it'll still be ok to use just to check the tech availability. Also Dacole has been working day and night to get that simulator uptodate. (The people appreciate this dacole!) So we can expect it any day now.

dacole · December 2, 2003, 19:53

heh not sure when the simulator will be updated was actually hopeing that was going to be forgotten since well I can't see myself keeping it updated..if the people feel it is nessecary I can attempt to get it updated not sure when that would happen though. Going to make a post about governmental structure with open positions ect. Your right we need to get them filled as soon as possible!

Snowflake · December 3, 2003, 01:54

Actually keeping the simulator up to date itself is already a very labor and intelligence intensive full time job. Hopefully somebody will be able to do it.

Micha · December 3, 2003, 08:03

could someone please link to the latest simulator update available? Mine is from 2135...

Snowflake · December 9, 2003, 13:45

I think dacole may have a more updated simulator.

Snowflake · December 9, 2003, 13:47

If we get eco eng from CC and finish env eco in 2151. What is the next tech we want to research? Bio-engineering to get clean reactor and The Longevity Vaccine SP?

Micha · December 9, 2003, 13:50

I have ever said we need clean reactors, at least to get the clean formers! LV is a nice bonus to have...

Snowflake · December 9, 2003, 17:45

Actually we won't be able to get Neural Grafting yet since even if CC agrees to reseach it for us it will take them ages to get it.

So we still need to think about what we are going to do after we finish env eco. Should we go ahead and do neural grafting ourselves? If we do things correctly with pop booming and stuff we should be able to bump up our research rate quite nicely, even with the gain of 2 techs we should still be able to get neural grafting earlier than if CC is going to do it. Alternatively, we could give SHB to Drones and after they finish SFF they'll reseach NG and then MMI. What should we do in the same time?

dacole · December 9, 2003, 17:52

The university seems to be pop booming now so they will probably be going to mmi quickly we must get that first! As such we need to stay on that beeline so I would suggest working on neural grafting.

Snowflake · December 9, 2003, 18:49

We need to look at our research rate versas Drones. The Drones will complete SFF in turn 2152, about the same time our deal get through. One idea is we start neural grafting when Drones research Air Power. When one finishes the other immediately switch to the other one and then in turn when this finishes the other player switches to MMI, this could result in getting MMI 5-10 years earlier than scheduled. The university will not know what struck them!

Kody · December 17, 2003, 21:19

From my estimates we should have been finishing enviromental economics in 2152....

Another issue with tech rate is if we decide to get adaptive economics and try and build another SP. Our tech rate won't increase as much in the sprint for MMI.

Mead · January 7, 2004, 00:17

Although I have been working the Jamski trial and waiting to see the turn to see how Peace is faring against CyCon, I have been thinking about our chances for getting Cloudbase and Cyborg Factory.

I am thinking that so long as we get the techs first we have (or at least by then should have enough crawlers to rush build both).

I am worried about whether we can get the tech in time.

The last time I looked, we were running 40/20/40. I think that this was so we could Pop Boom.

Will reducing this for the next few turns to 50/0/50 be enough to make a difference in the Tech race?

I know we are planning to benefit from a tech probe of Uni. Can we maintain good relations we them to keep some commerce income? Will that make enough difference?

Once I get to see the new turn I'll start to think a lot more about it and try to project where we and the others will be.

Mead

Enigma_Nova · January 7, 2004, 01:59

For those who haven't been paying attention...

Drones are on their way to rob the Uni of EnvEco and SoftHB.
They'll send these to us.
We'll accept, then change from EnvEco to Neural.
We slam down Neural.

After that we start researching Clean, until drones get Doc:Air, and then we get Doc:Air and research MMI.
Upon getting MMI, we build the Cloudbase academy.
The turn we start going for MMI, I'll see about negotiating either PEACE or the CyCon for Adaptive Econ.

At the risk of being Kodyfied, who here knows how to negotiate?

Kody · January 7, 2004, 02:11

We not after adaptive economics, we're after the PEG. So have to be careful that we don't get sent adaptive economics after someone else already built it.

We might not even have to research clean first. Apparently the drones will be able to finish air power earlier than expected.

Jamski · January 7, 2004, 04:45

If PEACE are really getting hammered they may give us Adaptive Econ to aid them. Worth a gamble? Who knows?

Longevity Vacccine is pretty useful for the Hive, and Cloudbase is good for everyone. I really suggest we have everything ready to grap CBA as soon as we get the tech.

-Jam

Kody · January 7, 2004, 08:55

Peace will probably offer us adaptive econ for aid. However, from the looks of things the cycon have started to prepare crawlers to build the PEG. I estimate they're 4-6 turns away from building it.

This next turn we build alot of extra crawlers. So we'll be ready to build any SP's that come our way.

Enigma_Nova · January 7, 2004, 12:23

I'll see what I can do about getting that tech

Will we still be able to research MMI if we get that extra tech before Drones send us cloudbase?
*Enigma loads his tech tester

Awww megacrap!
Us getting Adaptive will not allow us to research MMI (once we get Air Power from the drones).
We'd need ANOTHER tech...
Doc: Init would be acceptable, but what's that do to our tech cost?

741? Is my simulator BSing me?
629 without the new techs
While I'm sure my tester is BSing me on that one, you can see we have quite a spike.
I'd try to delay getting Adaptive 'till after we have started MMI.

Kody · January 7, 2004, 19:30

If things go well turn 2154 we should be able to start MMI. Otherwise turn 2157 possibly.

Enigma_Nova · January 7, 2004, 21:08

It is imperative that we get Cloudbase before the Drones, right?

Kody · January 7, 2004, 21:20

Not imperative if we don't mind being a bystander. It's got to do with how important we will be to the drones. Having the cloudbase first means the hive won't be made a sideline faction in our permi-pact. The drones will want us to provide air support and it'll make taking over the data angels easier.

People have expressed concerns on the drones overtaking us in power and the hive becoming a bystander. My answer to that is if we get the cloudbase the drones will be eager to run joint wars with the hive.

Without the cloudbase the hive will have to struggle to match buster's SMAX skill otherwise we'll become a bystander. Okay I admit that if I continue running all the turns the hive won't have any problems becoming a bystander in future wars. However, I would like to see other people playing the turns too and that means the hive needs an military advantage (cloudbase) to offset the fact buster is a really good player.

Enigma_Nova · January 7, 2004, 22:48

Buster is by no means unbeatable. SMAX is yet to see its Bobby Fischer.

What makes me worry is that he has a boom-compatible faction and we don't. That's my greatest worry.

Kody · January 7, 2004, 23:55

We're currently ahead in power compared to buster, and we've boomed a couple of our bases. I felt those two things offset the fact that the drones are a boom compatible faction.

Assuming that the turn player can play just as well as buster then we'll stay ahead of the drones simply due to turn advantage. The drones have only been catching up recently, because we have been managing things badly. We had a period of negative power growth and the recent hive chaos prevented us from spending the time securing pirate votes are the two major examples.

I never said that buster is unbeatable. However, he has years of experience that is not present in the Hive. He also has veteran advisors. For a suitable anology a laser very green infantry still finds it difficult competing with a commando scout patrol.

Enigma_Nova · January 8, 2004, 00:52

I'll laser very green infantry you.

Mead · February 2, 2004, 01:54

ALL COMMENTS SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO WAR PREPARATIONS THREAD
[Posted here as a courtesy since it involves suggested SE Changes]

When do we (Will we?) change from Wealth? Support Apolyton

Usually,

When I decide to go to war I change from Wealth to something else.

Right now, it looks like we only have Survival to go to.

Wealth, although it gives us +3 industry and -1 Economy, also sticks us with -2 Morale. This is something I do not want to have to build a military with.

Consider:

With Wealth Settings:

and our military unit cities creating combat units; will will get units that are disciplined.

This is because: very green + ((+2 command nexus or cloudbase +2 bioenhancment center))/2 which is [-1 morale, morale enhancers halved]

With Survival settings we get green +2 command nexus or cloudbase +2 bioenhancement = commando.

Additionally, there are nice monoliths just outside Meadopolis (we need a road built there, on the monolith), and Rokossovkygrad (which already has a road built there) that will give our land (Drop) units a top off to Elite morale.

I do not think we should make the change from Wealth just yet, but we should strongly consider it just before we rush build a bunch of military units.

I have not run the numbers. I know the costs of making the commando/elite units (Survival SE units) is greater than the disciplined (Wealth SE units), but I think that the additional costs of the substantially stronger (and faster) units are worth it.

Mead

PS

Please enlighten me on the morale properties of units based/made at bases that have children's creches, when they are away from their bases.

ALL COMMENTS SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO WAR PREPARATIONS THREAD
[Posted here as a courtesy since it involves suggested SE Changes]

Snowflake · February 8, 2004, 02:14

Future beeline:

Hive: Planetary economics
Drones: AMA/fusion

Would like to get your thoughts. Also could somebody check which tech PEACE is offering would we need? I don't want all of them since it will increase our tech cost and slow our tech rate.

Snowflake · March 7, 2004, 04:49

We will finish Intell Integrity this turn. I believe the next available tech are the following:

Polymorphic Software
Bio-Engineering
Cyberethics
Nonlinear Mathematics

Suggest reseach Bio-Eng. I would appreciate if somebody can double check if I am correct.