The Greeks

[Ision]

I have decided to do a series of post on each CIV after playing the epic game with each one numerous times. My intention is to encourage debate and hopefully to help others (and myself) in their game play. For the record, I am strictly a Monarch player, Large Maps, Continents, with a builder/warmonger combination style of play.

Unlike the majority of players that couldn’t wait to get C3C and play the new CIVs, I decided to begin with the tried and true favorites of PTW. The C3C changes would definitely change their play style and factor in to whether they would maintain their ‘favorite’ CIV titles. You can argue for many, but no one can deny the tremendous appeal and beloved status of -

The GREEKS

Commercial and scientific, oh how the money and the techs roll in! In PTW the Greeks always fared better than most CIVs. Play enough epic games and you began to notice that one of the few non-Industrious Civs that the AI plays well is Greece. Greece and Korea were AI Civs that typically started slow, but if they survived, almost assuredly became strong late game threats. The dynamics of their traits was in itself a boost to the AIs problems with becoming gold depleted and technologically backward by the Industrial age.

For the human Greek player, Greece was a wonderful builder CIV. Their assets include: Cheap Libraries and Universities, tons of cash to hurry and upgrade quickly, better science research, a free tech every age, a strong defensive UU (the Hoplite 1-3-1) that may keep your military expenditures down in the early game, also that UU tends to make aggressive AIs far more leery of an early Ancient age attack. The Greek traits/UU lend themselves to a very efficient game play when ugly situations arise unexpectedly. In the late game the Greek commerce can be a game saver and an AI game breaker. Warmongering with the Greeks can also be very rewarding. The warmongering Greek typically starts very peacefully, amassing gold and preparing his infrastructure in depth, the Greek can launch a massive late middle age Cavalry rush. Correctly played Greece could mass upgrade the very turn of a major military unit improvement, which in turn will lead to the quick demise of any foe! Want to launch a Space Race victory, just try to beat the Greeks to those techs! Want to be the worlds banker, beloved by all, sitting pretty on a UN vote – just try to beat the Greeks! Want to beat the Greeks to a cultural win – even the Babylonians will have their hands full trying.

On the downside is the fact that the science trait in PTW was simply not that strong compared to other traits. Secondly, while a good warmonger can ‘war’ with any CIV – Greece, while certainly not among the worst, was also not a first choice. No one runs past China, Germany or the Vikings to play the Greeks for a Conquest/Domination game. Lastly, that UU had 2 drawbacks; you are always in danger of an AI initiating an early Golden Age for Greece, and it was an awkward UU to initiate a GA with after the Ancient Age. Another drawback is that lazy PTW Greek worker that always took too damn long to do anything! Lastly, that tremendous late game flexibility of the Greeks is tempered by a somewhat not so flexible early game.

So how do the Greeks fare with C3C? After playing a few games with the Greeks again, I have come to the following conclusions:

C3C has seen the resurrection of the science trait. The addition of the possibility of a Great Scientific Leaders for the first Civ to discover a tech makes for even stronger Greek play. The greater need to do your own research for techs also enhances Greece as a top choice. Once the ‘bugs’ are ironed out in the patch, the commercial trait will benefit immensely. The dynamics of the science/commercial combo will be accentuated to an even greater degree than ever before. The toning down of the Industrious trait alone, improves your workers ability in an indirect manner. C3C sees an already strong Greece, become even stronger. An excellent PTW builder CIV is now a hands down top 3 choice. An average warmonger CIV, is made a far more viable choice.

In summary, the Greek play in and of itself remains essentially the same. What has changed is the effects of that play are far stronger. If you liked the Greeks before – you’ll love them now!

[Crimson Phalanx]

Well, I may be one of the few civ players that almost always plays with some specific tribe and in my case this is Greeks, just out of a - silly if you want! - preference towards my actual nalionality, but definitely not due to nationalistic reasons!! The things is that I was glad to see a thread started just to comment Greeks and I will agree to every single statement Ision made. Yes, it is "the" tribe to play with if you are one of us who don't really like war but enjoy creating a great empire. It needs a lot of patience and courriage to make it through hard ancient times, but all of your efforts will be rewarded in mid and late game when you can see your emprire thriving to victory. And yes, it is a great feeling to know that those Hoplites will prove to be too hard to die against even the most aggressive opponents (remember how Persians in their most glorious time failed to conquer Greeks twice!!!)...

[Arrian]

Conquests definitely gives a boost to the Greeks, IMO. Both of their traits are better in Conquests. Scientific in particular, due to the SGL thing, but also Commercial because starting with the aphabet (always good) is now a bit stronger due to the bonus tech for being the first to philosophy (ok, this only applies on levels of play where you can reasonably expect to be the first to philo).

Greece certainly has more appeal now. Enough added appeal, in fact, that the "American Imperialists" team chose them as our civ in the MasterZen Online Conquests Democracy Game. They were our second choice*, actually, but nevermind that now

-Arrian

* - those bastard Canadians ( ) beat us out for the Iroquois. The Iroquois are hardcore in conquests - great builder traits + a powerful UU.

[Ision]

I agree Arrian. I believe that both Greece and Korea have gotten a big boost with C3C. Once the Forbidden palace bug is patched, the commercial trait of the Greeks will be even more advantageous.

Ision

[mimi]

Originally posted by Arrian

* - those bastard Canadians ( ) beat us out for the Iroquois. The Iroquois are hardcore in conquests - great builder traits + a powerful UU.

Nope, can't be bastard Canadians, we're all related...