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Old December 2, 2003, 18:39   #31
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Re: Marcus, your family is a "dirty word."
Quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Under "What I should have done," Marcus wrote: "Cep my mouf shut."
Aw the poor boy... That really makes me mad.

Quote:
"I will never use the word 'gay' in school again,"
That's pretty ****ed up too.

Quote:
and that officials apologize to the boy and his mother.
That's absolutely necessairy and I wonder about his teacher's credentials for remaining at her job. And the school's administration too if it didn't take corrective measures against her and apologize to child and mother.
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:43   #32
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This puts interesting perspective on the "gays can't raise children properly" argument, too. Apparently not, because the bigots won't let them.
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:44   #33
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So long as the child isn't describing graphic sexual or other intimate acts, it's the child's right to describe the nature of his parent's relationship as much as it is anyone else. Why can other children talk freely about having a mommy and daddy, but not one who has two mommies?
Boris:

My letter has your rebuttal. I would not prevent him from talking about his adopted family, but merely from the sexual preferences.

I remember being in grade 7 and asking about how gay people 'do' it, and having my teacher hem and haw. Now, if it is inappropriate for a 12 year old, it is also inappropriate for a 6 year old.
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:44   #34
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As a teacher of your son's kindergarten class, certain comments he made have raised my concerns. Just yesterday, when asked by another child as to his religion, he responded that he was Christian.

While I do not agree with this belif, it is every parent's right to have a say in their child's welfare. Just as I would not wish to interfere with the religions of other children, I will not interfere with yours.

That being said, I feel discussion of what it means to be Christian as inappropriate for a kindergarten class and will raise the ire of many other parents who wish to protect their children. Therefore, I ask that you instruct your child to talk about his religion, because, as we all know, your religion ought to have no bearing on your child rearing.

*****

The double standard inherit in BK's proposed letter is astounding. So should a kid be prevented from talking about his mommy and daddy as well, or does the silence rule only apply to gay parents?

Where does a public school get off trying to "protect" someone's kid from knowing that some kids have 2 parents of the same gender? I don't recall of any right to not have your kid exposed to different values.
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:45   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Starchild:



No, it would probably have been more along the lines of:
If I was the mum that got that note, I'd have responded back with one saying that I don't agree with single parents arrangements and that, for the safety and protection of my child you see, they should also be forbidden from being discussed.

While we're at it, I don't agree with children being raised by grandparents, aunts and uncles, step-parents, or any of the other variety of family arrangements we accept without thinking. For my child's protection, I think it's highly inappropriate to talk about such things as divorce or being born outside of marriage.

If my child can't discuss his family, I see no reason to let any child discuss their own family.
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:46   #36
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Kenobi you are sinner burn in hell for all eternity!
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:48   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Boris:

My letter has your rebuttal. I would not prevent him from talking about his adopted family, but merely from the sexual preferences.

I remember being in grade 7 and asking about how gay people 'do' it, and having my teacher hem and haw. Now, if it is inappropirate for a 12 year old, it is also inapporpriate for a 6 year old.


Wherein did Marcus describe how his parents "do it?"

Quote:
Marcus "told the other child that gay is when a girl likes a girl"
As was said, his description is as tame and innocuous as one can imagine. The kid spoke the truth, and it was devoid of any explicitness or luridness. Saying he can't say what he said is simply censorship based on prejudice, and it has no place in a public school.
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:49   #38
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Starchild: @ that letter
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:53   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Boris:

My letter has your rebuttal. I would not prevent him from talking about his adopted family, but merely from the sexual preferences.

I remember being in grade 7 and asking about how gay people 'do' it, and having my teacher hem and haw. Now, if it is inappropriate for a 12 year old, it is also inappropriate for a 6 year old.
It's no wonder there's an HIV and teen pregnancy epidemic with attitudes like this. It's never to soon to learn about sex.

I was taught about sex, by my parents, before I even started school. And it's just aswell, 'cause it put me ahead of the school-yard talk. You'll find that kids this age will talk about sex alot more freely than most adults do, and they'll explore each other's bodies, too. Keeping them in the closet and treating sex like some sort of unspeakable taboo is just going to make them ignorant and confused.
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:55   #40
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Quote:
I remember being in grade 7 and asking about how gay people 'do' it, and having my teacher hem and haw. Now, if it is inappropriate for a 12 year old, it is also inappropriate for a 6 year old.
The kid wasn't explaining the mechanics of it.
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:58   #41
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Kenobi you are in immoral person your very existence poisens society. Think of the children you wretch, do you want their minds intoxicated with your filthy habits. I move to ban you from Apolyton.
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Old December 2, 2003, 18:59   #42
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Figure if I have to read about this kind of stuff, that someone on your end ought to.
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:03   #43
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The word "gay" is vernacular and often used as a perjorative. Perhaps the boy should have used the word "homosexual" or "lesbian".

If the teacher permits one child to use the word "gay", will she be able to prevent other children from using it as a perjorative? hese are after all only second graders. It may be beyond their abilities to discriminate between the legitimate use of the word and the derogatory form.

What if Billy's dad's dad never married his dad's mom? Would Billy be allowed to refer to grandad as an "old bastard?"
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:04   #44
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Ah.

No wonder.

/me dons flamesuit.

Much better.

I'm going to eat and then dissect each of your statements.

I suggest that you re-read my letter. I do not prevent the child from saying that he has two moms.
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:06   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
The word "gay" is vernacular and often used as a perjorative. Perhaps the boy should have used the word "homosexual" or "lesbian".

If the teacher permits one child to use the word "gay", will she be able to prevent other children from using it as a perjorative? hese are after all only second graders. It may be beyond their abilities to discriminate between the legitimate use of the word and the derogatory form.

What if Billy's dad's dad never married his dad's mom? Would Billy be allowed to refer to grandad as an "old bastard?"
They raise an issue with him explaining what 'gay' means, ie. that his mother likes other women. If he had used it in the negative context, I have a feeling that he wouldn't of gotten in as much trouble.
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:09   #46
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I see nothing wrong with using gay as a pejorative. I do it all the time - it's just a figure of speech, and a relatively versatile one.
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:10   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
The word "gay" is vernacular and often used as a perjorative. Perhaps the boy should have used the word "homosexual" or "lesbian".
But that's not what got little marcus into trouble is it? It was the brute's he has for teacher repulsiveness of the fact that he has two moms. I sincerely hope there's a lawsuit here after all that happened in the US. At last one good thing can come out of the "suitmania" that reigns there.
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:39   #48
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I move to ban you from Apolyton.


Your powers have dwindled Sir Thorn. I fear thee not.
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:40   #49
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Now Thorn is just being ridiculous.
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:42   #50
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Kenobi you are sinner burn in hell for all eternity!
Sig material. Might as well replace the Demogames.
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:44   #51
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If a kid asked another kid what "straight" meant and he said "that's when you (boy) like a girl" or "you (girl) like a boy", would he have gotten in as much trouble?

Since a kid initiated it--it wasn't exactly the child yelling out "BEING GAY IS..." or the teacher saying "Now Marcus, explain the sin of your mother" then the teacher should be shamed 100x more. What, are you just going to let the other kid's question hang unanswered? And is it only okay to talk about your heterosexual parents, not your homosexual ones? Bah. I'm disgusted.

And why should this be left to the parents to teach anyways, as the teacher feebly attempted to use as a defense? It's a fact, and Marcus got it right. Homosexuality is being attracted to humans of the same sex as yourself. There's no different way for a parent to teach it. Now, a parent could teach a lie falsely resembling gayness ("and then Billy, every day when they wake up they pray to Satan before engaging in their Sin"), however.

Conclusions?
-the school is staffed by homophobes
-the teacher should be reprimanded some way
-the teacher and principal (was he involved, again? I forgot) should apologize
-the teacher and principal should both have to go to an hour-long sensitivity workshop where they have to write "My students can discuss things I disagree with" 100x over
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:48   #52
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The kid wasn't explaining the mechanics of it.
True, but 'liking' a woman doesn't really explain what it means to be gay. I would rather avoid having to discuss what it means to be gay.
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:50   #53
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True, but 'liking' a woman doesn't really explain what it means to be gay.
Wtf? It does too. Unless you want to REQUIRE that every definition of it be filled with explicit details.

It seemed like that definition satisfied the person who was asking him, at least.
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Old December 2, 2003, 19:53   #54
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Keeping them in the closet and treating sex like some sort of unspeakable taboo is just going to make them ignorant and confused.
True, but Osweld, one could argue that schools are a poor venue for sex education that ought to take place in the home. I know that's where I learned, and probably the reason why I don't have a kid at this point. All the schools teach is you that if you use a condom you'll be fine.
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Old December 2, 2003, 20:00   #55
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The kid spoke the truth, and it was devoid of any explicitness or luridness.
That's not the truth, though. Are you gay because you like men? I have many friends I like, though that would not make me gay.

For all your calls for honesty, why do you allow a lie when it suits your cause?

Quote:
Therefore, I ask that you instruct your child to talk about his religion, because, as we all know, your religion ought to have no bearing on your child rearing.
Boris:

What double standard? Where have I said that religion ought to be taught by the teachers in class?
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Old December 2, 2003, 20:01   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


True, but Osweld, one could argue that schools are a poor venue for sex education that ought to take place in the home. I know that's where I learned, and probably the reason why I don't have a kid at this point. All the schools teach is you that if you use a condom you'll be fine.
And they also do things like this when a kid mentions something about sex. This is why they are not good venues.
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Old December 2, 2003, 20:09   #57
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Quote:
That's not the truth, though. Are you gay because you like men? I have many friends I like, though that would not make me gay.
Yes. Here, both participants in the discussion and the homophobe nitwit staffs knew that they meant "like" like as in "love" as in "****ing with dudes".

But just as it's okay to say "fiddlesticks" instead of "holy ****", it's also okay to say "like" instead of "****ing".
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Old December 2, 2003, 20:21   #58
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Here, both participants in the discussion and the homophobe nitwit staffs knew that they meant "like" like as in "love" as in "****ing with dudes".
I think the 'so-called' homophobe staff had more problems with the family than the word like.

And your spurious point has little to do with the point at hand. When I juse the word Fiddlesticks, I'm not using that in place of an oath.

I don't think that the kids meant that when talking about like.
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Old December 2, 2003, 22:50   #59
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Quote:
True, but Osweld, one could argue that schools are a poor venue for sex education that ought to take place in the home. I know that's where I learned, and probably the reason why I don't have a kid at this point. All the schools teach is you that if you use a condom you'll be fine.
My BF came from a conservative background his parents didn't teach him anything about sex education, probably why most of his relatives have knocked up their girlfriends not even knowing what they were doing was sex. He was told that gay people were evil people, and that was it, the end of the explanation.

You are leaving too much up to the parents, unless you like ignorance to continue on through generations it is a bad idea.
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Old December 3, 2003, 00:06   #60
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Kids are allowed to say "My dad's blond. My mom likes blonde guys.", right? Being disciplined for that is comparable to being disciplined for this.

At the top, teacher Terry L. Bethea wrote: "He explained to another child that you are gay (underlined twice), and what gay means."

Just pointing out the key paragraph.^-^
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