How do you keep 'em in Fundamentalism?

BeBro · April 6, 2001, 13:19

Can it be influenced by the civ´s settings?
Perhaps a expansive/militaristic civ would rather use fundamentalism compared to a perfectionistc civ? Hmm, just a thought.

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Henrik · April 6, 2001, 13:34

I know that he is using the most agressive settings available allready (millitaristic, aggressive, expantionist).

Hendrik the Great · April 6, 2001, 14:47

You have to give them the advance Fundamentalism or whatever you call it in your scenario. Don't give them the other government-techs, it will slow their research down even more and might cause other unwanted problems, I speak from experience...

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Henrik · April 6, 2001, 15:05

I think he allready gave them the requiered tech...
Edit:
One of the civs hasn't got it (that one is also the one which usually changes govt first) and the other one has it (but that civ will also revolt after a few turns...).
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited April 06, 2001).]

Exile · April 6, 2001, 16:59

Actually, both of the civs in question already have the tech at the start of the scenario and they are both in the fundy government when the game begins. Within the first 3-4 turns, however, both AIs elect to switch government from fundy to despotism. If, in a MP game, the human players elect to do this, fine. But what I'd like to do is somehow alter the stuff at the beginning of the rules file so that the 2 AI civs don't choose to switch governments.

It may not be possible.

But if it is, I sure would like to know.

Salutations,
Exile

Xin Yu · April 6, 2001, 17:57

Have you given them Democracy? I have given a civ fundamentalism but not democracy. The civ could not change to fundy.

April 6, 2001, 18:43

I don't suppose you could just set switching govs off?
Try changing the turn. Some stuff is hard coded in based on the game year.

Exile · April 6, 2001, 19:53

No, Democracy has been made a "no,no" tech and will only be given to one civ late in the scenario. And turning off government-switching was tried very early on in the development of this one and proved unworkable in the context of the scenario.

Perhaps I should ask a more specific question. Does anyone know what exact numbers must be put down in the rules file in place of the default numbers in order to prevent the AI from switching out of Fundy? In the scenario, the civs in question only have 2 governments available; fundy & despotism. They might eventually get to Republic very late in the game, but that won't help anything on the first 10 turns. Fundy supports 8 units/city free and it lowers the total tech resarch by 50%. But these numbers can be freely altered by the designer. I've trial-and-errored through several combinations of numbers and the AIs are hell-bent on switching out of the ideal government, fundy, and lapsing back into despotism as quick as they can. Unfortuneatly, there just isn't a way that I can lock a particular civ into a particular government (or I would and have done with it).

Still hoping for a right answer,
Exile

Exile · April 7, 2001, 00:52

Ok, in one of my scenarios that I'm trying to improve, the intention is that the specific civs that have fundamentalism at the start stay in it. Instead, no matter how I alter the basic rule of how fundamentalism works in the rules file (number of units supported, percentage of tech available for research), the 2 civs always come out of fundy and go into despotism.

I don't want this to happen.

Any ideas how to manipulate the AI so that it will stay in what is clearly a better government?

Salutations,
Exile

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Henrik · April 7, 2001, 00:57

I have a theory...
Give the techs of the governments that's normally "between" fundy and despotism...
Start by just giving them monarchy (well aristrocracy in your scenario if I remember correctly

)
I know you can't give them republic (it would ruin the game if they traded it to another european civ...).
This is just speculations, you try it out!

Henrik · April 7, 2001, 07:18

You could try giving them the democracy tech (since its no, no they wont be able to trade it...) and see what happens.
Did you receive my mails exile?

Gothmog · April 7, 2001, 08:02

Exile,
I don't know if what I am suggesting will help but it's probably worth a shot. How many libraries, universities, research labs, trade routes do the tribes you want to stay fundy have? Maybe the reason they switch out is to get the science rate up. That's probably giving too much credit to the AI.

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Exile · April 7, 2001, 09:33

Henrik, received your emails, no problem. You should be receiving answers even as I write this.

Gothmog, I certainly did think about that. As inefficient as despotism actually is, fundy might be worse when it comes to tech research. Yes, they might well be switching out of it to acquire a higher technology gain rate. Which is why I thought that altering the fundy numbers might provide sufficient incentive for the AIs to remain in fundy. If the fundy number weren't that bad, perpaps the AI wouldn't switch. But they do. But thanks.

It's a little problem, but it might prove unsolvable.

Salutations,
Exile

Henrik · April 7, 2001, 09:43

I got your answer now

SCDARS · April 7, 2001, 11:56

quote:

No, Democracy has been made a "no,no" tech and will only be given to one civ late in the scenario.

If I recall correctly, Government techs with prerequesites "no,no" are somehow "forbidden" and even can't be chosen even if one civ posseses this tech or the Statue of Liberty.
As I'm not 100% sure, you should test this out first.

Is Fundy "no,no", too? If then, it would explain why the AI never changes back to fundamentalism. Maybe the AI thinks that Fundy isn't available.

Another theory would be that Fundamentalism requires a certain state of development and a minimum size of the respective civ.
In standard games I often noticed AI civs changing back to Monarchy or Despotism after they failed to attack me and had been reduced to 4 cities or so.

So I wonder whether adding cities would help... How big are those civs at the beginning of your scenario?
Other motivations for the AI could be civil unrest, the ability to build the unit in the fanatic slot, a lot of wars and (but this is purely speculative

techs from the Monotheism and Conscription slots.