Smoke-Jaguar versus Sid. - Page 2

Harovan · December 5, 2003, 07:06

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
But, another 6 weeks or so.

This has ruined my day, after I was cheered up by the news about Civ4. I have more than three weeks vacation over Christmas and now they are spoiled. Oh well, I will dig out PtW and after my "Bye Bye PtW" game I will have a "Screw Conquests - PtW is alive and well" challenge.

Aeson · December 5, 2003, 07:12

My city distances:

2 - 3, 3.5
1 - 4.5
3 - 5.5
2 - 6, 6.5 (still productive, but barely)
1 - 8
1 - 9 (this is where despotism hit absolute corruption)

Aeson · December 5, 2003, 07:28

At that point I had just captured 2 Mongol cities and made peace. Did get 2 techs for peace though. I had researched The Wheel, Bronze Working, Warrior Code, Horseback Riding and Iron Working on my own.

Then the AI started building Sun Tzu's, and so I decided I needed to milk the Mongols more. I payed my gpt to the Mongols for Writing, and then demanded they leave my territory. They broke the peace treaty of course, 2nd war. I took another two cities, and made peace again. This got me Code of Laws and Philosophy. Again, sold my spare Ivory to the Mongols, payed gpt for Mathmatics and Mysticism, then demanded they leave my territory again. 3rd war.

This time I took out their Iron the first turn, and a size 12 city the 3rd. Things were looking good. That is, until the Japanese declared war on me out of the blue. They had built Zeus, and had at least 15 units in my territory at the time, about half of them were Ancient Cavalry. They had been sending their units to attack a Spanish city up north, and made peace with Spain before they got there... figured as long as they were here...

I tried to cut my losses and get my units back to my core. My Horsemen couldn't kill the Ancient Cavalry, and my swords just made them retreat, then my Swords would get killed. So I kept falling back. I kept losing a city a turn until I was down to this:

Aeson · December 5, 2003, 07:38

Spain and Japan kept dropping units off on the coasts, and I lost and retook those cities a few times each. I was able to make a stand at Tikai and Palenque, with Yaxchilan trading hands over and over (built on Horses, so I kept retaking it when I needed to build Horsemen).

If I had gotten a leader early on, I think I would have been fine, but it was at least 40 Elite victories before one showed up in 410BC. The turn before I had signed an alliance with the Dutch against the Japanese, and finally been able to make peace with the Mongols. The alliance cost me 36gpt, but the Dutch had at about 20 units wandering around my borders, and I had to get them on my side before someone else signed them up. The Iroquois, who I haven't met yet, are at war with me, as are the Spanish. Now at least I have a 13 HP 4.2.2 to deal with the Ancient Cavalry, but it still won't be easy.

Still don't have Currency and Construction. I researched Literacy on my own, but the Spanish beat me to it by 1 turn (or so it said at the time). That really hurt.

A funny thing then happened. 3 turns in a row it said I only needed 1 more turn for Literacy, but each time I didn't get it the next turn. I wasn't losing commerce or anything between turns. Not sure what was going on.

Aeson · December 5, 2003, 07:43

Oh, and my UU has been totally inneffective (though I'm glad my GA hasn't been triggered yet). So far I've lost (or had the Horsemen/Ancient Cavalry retreat) every time I've attacked or defended with them.

Harovan · December 5, 2003, 07:48

Quote:

A funny thing then happened. 3 turns in a row it said I only needed 1 more turn for Literacy, but each time I didn't get it the next turn. I wasn't losing commerce or anything between turns. Not sure what was going on.

This is a long known bug, I can confirm it. The only thing I don't know is, why it not yet has been fixed.

DrSpike · December 5, 2003, 07:50

Maybe that's why the patch is taking until mid January.

Harovan · December 5, 2003, 07:53

I doubt that it is a patch issue. It just has been ignored so far. Maybe somebody should report it once more. I can't, I don't play Conquests (other than bickering with scenarios). Aeson, have you kept a save by chance?

Aeson · December 5, 2003, 08:05

No, don't have a save from around then.

Harovan · December 5, 2003, 08:10

I think we should keep an eye on it and if it ever happens again, report it immediately. This bug is a very annoying one. Except, somebody finds an explanation in the game mechanics, but I can't think of one.

ducki · December 5, 2003, 12:18

I've been seeing that bug too.
I figured it was simply due one or both of the following:
-Building settlers and workers, accidentally removing citizens from high-gold squares or accidentally eliminating scientists

-Building/Capturing cities and changing the Amazing Corruptino from one turn to the next, killing my tax base by just enough to "lose a turn of research"

I don't really understand the Amazing Corruptino, so maybe someone who does can tell me if either of these theories make sense.

Dominae · December 5, 2003, 12:21

What did your military look like Aeson? Swordsmen, Archers?

Since you were keeping up in research, I assume you built units the "hard" way instead of upgrading.

I quit this game not because I had no Gold to upgrade, but because the Corruption issues meant I had no Shields to build anything either!

I think I was doing pretty well nonetheless. I had a Warrior acting as a floodgate at the isthmus between the Mongols and the Spanish (lucky for me it got teleported there when the Mongols demanded I leave their lands). If ever I had gone to war with the Mongols, I could have used this to ensure their forces were busy with Spain.

Dominae

vmxa1 · December 5, 2003, 13:45

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike

What's your attack timing plan? Go to early and you don't have enough..........go too late and they will have too many nice units.

I am not sure I can come up with an attack plan. I was hoping to get in on an MPP/RoP. I was offered one, but it was against the wrong civ.

I am thinking of trying to get to Monarchy soone and then trigger my GA and hold on for dear life.

If I could get one or two RoP's with them giving me some tech that would be helpful. They offered tech, but I did not want that fight.

vmxa1 · December 5, 2003, 13:56

This bug about not get the break through has occurred in C3C games and has happened in this one as well. I did not get in any time last night, due to my friend. He kept calling to help him with XP issues.
I also had an on going issue with someone on Moo2 and had to post some saves to prove a point. Then my ex wanted some time for xmas stuff, so it was not a productive day.

I will try to remember to post a save to the bugs page if I see this again. I don't think it is uncommon.

Catt · December 5, 2003, 15:52

I haven't seen the "one turn to go -- psych!" bug before, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

Could it have been enemy units occupying enough commerce tiles to materially reduce commerce and thus science? Even so, I can't see how such a minor disturbance could extend through 2 turns. I'l watch and post a save if I come across it.

Catt

vmxa1 · December 5, 2003, 16:01

Ok I played out to 300AD, the Dutch are history. I though I was about to go out when Japand send more than 2 dozen calvs next to my capitol, but they are after Spain.
I am now in Monarchy, but I think after seeing those units and I have circumnavigated the globe, it is just a matter of time.

I have very little money, and Japan is not even the #1 civ in the game. They also have tons of ancient calvs to throw away and they may even have crusaders. I forgot who got that wonder.

I avoided the tempation to built lots of cities or to make a layout to match what Aeson tried, but I cannot see any trick to beat the corruption. The human needs to be able to have a lot of cities at this level to try and get research and units to stay viable. I made as many spears and JT's as I could afford and that is the only reason the AI did not take me out already. It is not enough to do much to them, unless you get one with a few towns near you. One that has it empire some place far away. Spain was that, but I was cut off from reaching them.
I had Japand and the Mongols around me and they were too strong.

In short I need more experience at this level to have any idea of how to best approach it and at least the corruption bug corrected some.

Aeson · December 5, 2003, 17:52

I built about 20 Warriors, all of which I ended up upgrading eventually. Only got in 2 chariot builds before Horseback Riding.

Started out with my capitol building a Warrior, then Granary. Probably should have sent out a couple more Warriors, but I think I ended up making contact with the Mongols as fast as possible, and they already had Masonry. I didn't open either of the two huts I saw for fear of barbs.

After that it was 4 turn Settlers. All other non-corrupt cities built a Barracks and then Warriors. The second city built a Granary after a couple Warriors, and then 2 turn Workers. Corrupt cities just built Workers.

By the time I got Iron Working, I had 2 10 shield per turn cities, and my capitol got to 15 shields a bit after the Japanese declared war. Attached a comparison of my military before attacking the Mongols the first time (1150BC), and what it is now (370BC).

Lost almost all my Horsemen counter-attacking the Ancient Cavalry, mostly just giving them promotions. I've had about 20 Horsemen overall, but they keep dying faster than I can produce them. I've been a bit more careful with the Swordsmen, and produced a lot more of them.

DrSpike · December 5, 2003, 18:51

So you slowed research after Iron Working to get money for the all new pricey upgrades?

vmxa1 · December 5, 2003, 18:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt
I haven't seen the "one turn to go -- psych!" bug before, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

Could it have been enemy units occupying enough commerce tiles to materially reduce commerce and thus science? Even so, I can't see how such a minor disturbance could extend through 2 turns. I'l watch and post a save if I come across it.

Catt

The first time I saw this, that what I suspected. I looked around, but could not see anything in quick glance that should have done it.

I have seen it at demigod and sid so far.

Snotty · December 5, 2003, 19:09

Were you milking the lux slider for gold when it took 3 turns? Putting in the minimum amount of commerce needed to get the one turn result would make the margins for error quite thin. You may only need to lose one commerce for it to be pushed back a turn.

When in the turn cycle do beakers get taken from commerce?

Aeson · December 5, 2003, 20:38

Upgrading is still pretty cheap.

Given my research path, there really wasn't anything else to do except upgrade. Didn't have Alphabet or Ceremonial Burial. Alphabet and Writing would have taken me longer to research than they did to extort with Swords and Horses.

DrSpike · December 6, 2003, 07:26

Indeed Warrior + 60 gold is still quite reasonable, but the 50% rise does make a difference. Also, though I haven't really played enough games to say for sure yet, the AI seemed really stingy on the demigod/deity starts where I decided to take the extorting path.