"Civilization IV"... Confirmed? - Page 15

bayraven · December 25, 2004, 11:01

i feel better about backing out of Diety level Civ3

SSBLoveU · December 26, 2004, 14:14

Quote:

Originally posted by techtedg
does anyone actually have any idea how long it will be until we can see IV in the stores?

At least there are more hits when I do a web engine search, nothing firm from what I can read.

Addled Platypus · December 27, 2004, 01:35

from the pages of PC gammer 2005

other games had more specific dates (summer 2005)

they gota keep us jonz'n

Robert Plomp · December 27, 2004, 02:49

Is the article in pc gamer already 'public' ?

Jon Shafer · December 27, 2004, 02:52

Yes, it's the "January" edition (meaning it's released a few weeks before January

).

JonahFalcon · December 27, 2004, 16:46

Salient notes from the PC Gamer preview:

a) Being made directly by Sid Meier
b) Being made from scratch, from the ground up
c) Lush 3D zoomable graphics
d) XML data files will allow complete modding on all levels, including AI
e) Flexible tech trees allow different paths to later, more advanced techs - no more single paths
f) Advanced multiplayer -- ranging from quick games to advanced games that can last for months.

Vince278 · December 28, 2004, 13:04

If that all pans out then I'll need a cigarette after I'm done playing.

Patroklos · December 29, 2004, 18:36

You probobly would have researched "Cure for Cancer" by then.

Vince278 · December 30, 2004, 04:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Patroklos
You probobly would have researched "Cure for Cancer" by then.

Addled Platypus · December 30, 2004, 06:35

would'nt that be a neat thing to plant as a spy

selling cigs to kids, money goes to your treasury..

Vince278 · December 31, 2004, 22:19

That idea sounds too much like state-sponsered drug trafficking.

Max Sinister · January 3, 2005, 09:22

Not that this doesn't exist in reality (Iran-Contra, Ollie North...)

Toby Rowe · January 5, 2005, 01:28

Hi all,
Thoughts whilst playing on Monarch level:

1)
If the game is tile based in Civ 4, can we please all have the "select all units" (for movement) again please. (like Civ 2)
2)
Can we have a decent AI Diplomacy for SP please? Even a button gently warning the AI that "You will soon ceast to exist if you don't sign this treaty now" would be good.....I've currently been listening about my "unprovoked attack on Russia" for roughly 1,000 years now each time I try a mutual defence pact, in fact Russia declared war on me.

If we do have 3D graphics, then meaningful AI diplomacy will be critical as you simply can't see all borders in the way the AI, governors or 40,000 garrisoned soldiers can!

3)
Pre-set combat results:
Please use the att/Def of a unit. I dislike knowing that each time my Cavalry army attacks a conscript Infantry unit it will die, If the AI has deemed it so- I can re-load a million times, but I will always have the same result, simply as the AI has tagged the defender unit to win the next battle, my only option is to sacrifice a weak unit on that attack, and then see what the AI has tagged (win/lose) for that defending unit on the next round.- Just try it yourself if you don't believe me. (You can get around it by attacking another unit instead- I'm trying to work out how the tagging by the AI occurrs- anyone looked at the code?)

4)
Absolutely no more AI cheating- amazing how if I put a single worker just in range of an enemy city, if an Cavalry can reach it, one troop will go out and commit suicide by capturing it- utterly bonkers- but how did they know it was there in the first place? I've heard of the Charge of the Light Brigade, but this is even more silly, as they'll repeat the same disaster, time after time, if they have a single Cavalry unit and a Railway system.

5)

Submarines; Player Sub's are viewed as surface ships by the AI (cheating) thus the player must watch his fleets be destroyed by the AI until the AEGIS is invented, as we can't see his submarines.
In CivII destroyers correctly "saw" submarines using ASDIC/SONAR. Lazy programming or perhaps they thought it funny I dunno!

6) On a personal level,

I'd like no AI cheats at all, unrealistic I know, especially as many programmers are producing games for humans to play against each other on the net, thus allowing them to not have to deal with such complex issues as a decent AI!!

Sid Meiyer has provided me with all my favourite games- hopefully he'll put Civ3 to shame in 4 if the chap really is finally looking back to his original masterpiece.

Toby

Vince278 · January 5, 2005, 06:50

I just read PCGamer and I am not really all that impressed with the screenshots. It looks a little more difficult to see whats going on. What does everyone else think?

Nikolai · January 5, 2005, 11:43

Those screens are 1) alpha and 2) old now.

Joseph · January 5, 2005, 22:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
Hi all,
Thoughts whilst playing on Monarch level:

1)
If the game is tile based in Civ 4, can we please all have the "select all units" (for movement) again please. (like Civ 2)
2)
Can we have a decent AI Diplomacy for SP please? Even a button gently warning the AI that "You will soon ceast to exist if you don't sign this treaty now" would be good.....I've currently been listening about my "unprovoked attack on Russia" for roughly 1,000 years now each time I try a mutual defence pact, in fact Russia declared war on me.

If we do have 3D graphics, then meaningful AI diplomacy will be critical as you simply can't see all borders in the way the AI, governors or 40,000 garrisoned soldiers can!

3)
Pre-set combat results:
Please use the att/Def of a unit. I dislike knowing that each time my Cavalry army attacks a conscript Infantry unit it will die, If the AI has deemed it so- I can re-load a million times, but I will always have the same result, simply as the AI has tagged the defender unit to win the next battle, my only option is to sacrifice a weak unit on that attack, and then see what the AI has tagged (win/lose) for that defending unit on the next round.- Just try it yourself if you don't believe me. (You can get around it by attacking another unit instead- I'm trying to work out how the tagging by the AI occurrs- anyone looked at the code?)

4)
Absolutely no more AI cheating- amazing how if I put a single worker just in range of an enemy city, if an Cavalry can reach it, one troop will go out and commit suicide by capturing it- utterly bonkers- but how did they know it was there in the first place? I've heard of the Charge of the Light Brigade, but this is even more silly, as they'll repeat the same disaster, time after time, if they have a single Cavalry unit and a Railway system.

5)

Submarines; Player Sub's are viewed as surface ships by the AI (cheating) thus the player must watch his fleets be destroyed by the AI until the AEGIS is invented, as we can't see his submarines.
In CivII destroyers correctly "saw" submarines using ASDIC/SONAR. Lazy programming or perhaps they thought it funny I dunno!

6) On a personal level,

I'd like no AI cheats at all, unrealistic I know, especially as many programmers are producing games for humans to play against each other on the net, thus allowing them to not have to deal with such complex issues as a decent AI!!

Sid Meiyer has provided me with all my favourite games- hopefully he'll put Civ3 to shame in 4 if the chap really is finally looking back to his original masterpiece.

Toby

Toby, they said the AI will not cheat this time (Civ 4)
Joseph
PS. Transport Giant is not so bad.

Jon Shafer · January 5, 2005, 22:53

Where did they say that?

Joseph · January 6, 2005, 21:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
Where did they say that?

In Jan issue of ? computer mag.

Rasputin · January 6, 2005, 23:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
3)
Pre-set combat results:
Please use the att/Def of a unit. I dislike knowing that each time my Cavalry army attacks a conscript Infantry unit it will die, If the AI has deemed it so- I can re-load a million times, but I will always have the same result, simply as the AI has tagged the defender unit to win the next battle, my only option is to sacrifice a weak unit on that attack, and then see what the AI has tagged (win/lose) for that defending unit on the next round.- Just try it yourself if you don't believe me. (You can get around it by attacking another unit instead- I'm trying to work out how the tagging by the AI occurrs- anyone looked at the code?)

have you tried turning off "preserve random seed" if not then no matter how manytimes ou restart the odds reamin hte same , the "dice" roll the same, if the random seed is not preserved then a restart will bring a chance of different results.

StarBegotten · January 7, 2005, 16:14

I read in this months PCZone (its a UK mag) that Take2 are publishing Civ 4, is there any confirmation of this? Has it been posted elsewhere and I have just missed it?

Jon Shafer · January 7, 2005, 17:36

No public confirmation on that, no...

alva · January 10, 2005, 20:27

Quote:

Toby, they said the AI will not cheat this time (Civ 4)
Joseph

Hmm, that would be a surprise. I'd rather they come clean and tell us the AI IS cheating than try and hide it from us.

Toby Rowe · January 11, 2005, 22:38

Well...said...Joseph...myspacebar..hasfailed....ho nestly...this..is..annoying...for..me,but...Civ... resorting..to.really..lazy..programming..bythecomp any..enough..just..thatthey..owned...the..name..an gered...me...a..lot..and...they...were...alowed... to...use...it,...and...abuse..it.

Toby

Jon Shafer · January 11, 2005, 23:28

You think having the AI cheat is lazy programming? The AI cheated in every game depending on what difficulty level you're playing on - which means what you said only makes sense if you think the entire game series has abused the WORD "Civilization."

Toby Rowe · January 12, 2005, 01:01

Hi..Trip.

I think there is a slight difference between the Civ cheat
of "the Egyptians have nearly completed wonder...X" which was utterly random, but they always got the Pyramids, at least it was blantant cheating, using the 4mb of memory Sid Meiyer had to create such a complex, yet simple game.

Given the memory available to the programmers in the second sequel (Civ 3), they decided to cheat instead of programming in an credible AI- and were cheeky enough to programme in different levels of cheating for different levels of difficulty, yet blatent enough for all Civ players to see, on all levels.

After the ****-up of Alpha Centuri, I'm a trite nervous that greedy CO's at FireAxis will also ****-up Civ 4, as, if they muck this one up; Civ is finished, and we'll be left with Civ 2 only, and a once illustrious game AND name will be reduced to a laughing stock.

Toby

Toby Rowe · January 12, 2005, 02:26

Sorry,...the...spacebar...is..broken..on..my...key board.

Toby

Jon Shafer · January 12, 2005, 11:35

If you play on lower difficulty levels then the AI only cheats in a couple things, like knowing where your units are. This is done to shore the AI up a bit. If you play games on giga maps in the industrial age when turns take 30+ minutes for the AI to do its business, you'll see why some of that was done. It's only on higher difficulty levels is the AI cheating bad, and that's to provide a challenge for the player and accepted.

Max Sinister · January 12, 2005, 12:11

Try to fix your space bars, then. Having to scroll to read your posts is a pain in the butt, thank you.

SSBLoveU · January 14, 2005, 18:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
If you play on lower difficulty levels then the AI only cheats in a couple things, like knowing where your units are. This is done to shore the AI up a bit. If you play games on giga maps in the industrial age when turns take 30+ minutes for the AI to do its business, you'll see why some of that was done. It's only on higher difficulty levels is the AI cheating bad, and that's to provide a challenge for the player and accepted.

Cheating “really” makes game play at the higher levels sickening. I had a chess program which cheated every time a checkmate happened. It was funny for a while. However, Chessmaster is a product of excellent programming. There are many levels to play, and there is no need to cheat. Cheating in Civilization III is lazy programming, and it takes away the fun of a challenging game.

FlameFlash · January 14, 2005, 18:45

Have to agree on the cheating. It's not more of a challenge, it's more of a headache. One of the main reasons I don't go much higher than warlord either.

Nice to see MP out-of-the-box this time. Let's hope they actually do their own MP code so that CivIV doesn't get screwed like CivIII did on the Mac...

Talk about lazy programming! At least have a cross-platform PBEM feature!