American Soldiers out of Control in Iraq - Page 2

Shogun Gunner · December 5, 2003, 19:11

mobius,

Would like to see how you behave in a hostile situation where people were shooting at you....

I'm sure you would be perfect

Chemical Ollie · December 5, 2003, 19:23

I second MOBIUS on at least one point - the Brits in Basra must be doing something right. I presume the "experts" will give me the typical explaination - Basra is a friendly territory! But what is the hen and what is the egg? Why is Basra friendly?

The Brits have learned peacekeeping operations the hard way, in Belfast, Cyprus and Bosnia. You can't win a liberation war without the support of the civilians. I don't think the "friendlieness" of Basra is the only explaination to the success of the Brits. There are guerilla assaults there too. But you never hear of Brits killing journalists or allies, and hardly ever civilians either (but that happened, I know). I think a good idea to win this war might be for the Yanks to learn from the Tommie's tactics - whatever that is.

Ted Striker · December 6, 2003, 01:24

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Seen too many of your hysterical threads to care.

ditto

Kuciwalker · December 6, 2003, 01:25

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro
No banana, no good poll

my line!

Kuciwalker · December 6, 2003, 01:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian

Seconded. Given the nature of his posts, coupled with the all-CAPS nick, I have this mental image of a frothing-at-the-mouth fanatic, raving at the top of his lungs. At all times.

-Arrian

Thirded. In fact, he's one of two people on my ignore (CharlesBHoff is the other one).

Ted Striker · December 6, 2003, 01:26

IF YOU DON'T GIVE A DAMN DON'T THROW IT UP!!!

HEY!

IF YOU DON'T GIVE A DAMN DON'T THROW IT UP!!!

HEY!

IF YOU DON'T GIVE A DAMN DON'T THROW IT UP!!!

HEY!

Bereta_Eder · December 6, 2003, 01:34

Argueably for this sort of work you have to have nerves of steal. I remember reading that from all the peacekeepers in Afganistan the locals trusted only one group (which happened to be the Greeks, they even changed Kabul's central square's name to Alexander the Great - but that's not important) which was percevied by them as "not an occupation force" and "with them for them". I suppose this is the attitude/projection that a peacekeeping force must give to the people who were unfortunate enough to need/have to put up with one.
I agree with Tripledoc on this, if you can't keep your nerves on a tight hold and don't portray and even feel that you are there for the people then you have no business being there and you'll make your own life and those of others harder. Although whatever happens there will still be attacks going on.

Kirnwaffen · December 6, 2003, 01:47

I don't mean to say anything against the soldiers on the ground in Iraq, but they really are not trained for this type of work. It's all good and well for us to sit here and say "They should be less trigger happy!", but if it was your ass on the line, yours might start to itch too. Fact is, there is a component of the army that handles this sort of thing quite well. Fortunately for all of us, they're at home.

Ned · December 6, 2003, 02:54

We could do a lot better if the average American GI both spoke and understood Arabic.

Also, it would a lot better if we could use the Iraqis themselves as police in the city's. We never should have the disbanded the Iraqi army. That was a gigantic mistake in two ways: First, Iraqi troops could then have been used from the get-go as security forces in the cities and towns and along the borders. Second, by disbanding the army, we gave Saddam's resistance forces several hundred thousand unemployed but militarily skilled potential recruits for the resistance.

MrFun · December 6, 2003, 03:39

We make the Iraqis happy . . . . .

Dis · December 6, 2003, 03:39

pathetic troll.

If anything the U.S. soldiers are being too conservative.

Q Classic · December 6, 2003, 12:53

mobius...

hey..., guess what...

you're WRONG.

thanks...

have a nice day...

Whaleboy · December 6, 2003, 13:11

This thread is unfair. When in uniform, with a big gun, with a patriotic feeling, with the threat of being under attack 24/7, OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO GO MENTAL AGAINST CIVILIANS!! Its happened in every war before, and will happen countless times again. Lets lay off the Americans because theyre an easy propaganda target.

Imran Siddiqui · December 6, 2003, 15:11

Quote:

We make the Iraqis happy . . . . .

Did you do that?

Q Classic · December 6, 2003, 15:20

yes, using a font found in the titles of the original star trek.

Oerdin · December 7, 2003, 01:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
I second MOBIUS on at least one point - the Brits in Basra must be doing something right. I presume the "experts" will give me the typical explaination - Basra is a friendly territory! But what is the hen and what is the egg? Why is Basra friendly?

The Brits have learned peacekeeping operations the hard way, in Belfast, Cyprus and Bosnia. You can't win a liberation war without the support of the civilians. I don't think the "friendlieness" of Basra is the only explaination to the success of the Brits. There are guerilla assaults there too. But you never hear of Brits killing journalists or allies, and hardly ever civilians either (but that happened, I know). I think a good idea to win this war might be for the Yanks to learn from the Tommie's tactics - whatever that is.

Ollie: You have apoint but you ignore the fact that nearly all of Saddam's supporters are Sunni while the south's population is almost entirely made up of anti-Saddam Shiites. Of course we will have more problems from Saddam's supporters then from people who wanted Saddam over thrown.

MrFun · December 7, 2003, 02:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

We make the Iraqis happy . . . . .

Did you do that?

No, I did not create that graphic -- man, let me tell ya -- I could not create graphics like that if my life depended on it.

Urban Ranger · December 7, 2003, 06:49

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'm not able to bring myself to bring myself to put forth the effort to take you seriously if you insist on regergitating the same things over and over.

Ah, you do analyse your "debate" style very well, DD. One, you don't offer much other than snarky comments. Two, you go by the tactic of "drive-by postings", named after drive-by shootings. Three, you do regergitate the same thing over and over again.

Well done

DaShi · December 7, 2003, 07:34

Are you the argument police?

Drake Tungsten · December 7, 2003, 09:56

Quote:

Are you the argument police?

I don't know, but I'm the spelling police and this word...

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
regergitate

... is actually spelled "regurgitate".

DinoDoc · December 7, 2003, 13:21

UR: Here's a quarter. Go call someone who gives a flying crap about you and your opinions about them.

Kuciwalker · December 7, 2003, 13:44

DD - insulting mods is NOT a good idea

Quote:

Are you the argument police?

Basically, yes

he's a mod

Winston · December 7, 2003, 13:45

*I'm not home right now. Please leave a message after the beep.*

BEEP.

MrFun · December 7, 2003, 16:00

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
UR: Here's a quarter. Go call someone who gives a flying crap about you and your opinions about them.

Do I hear hissing and snarling in this thread?

DaShi · December 8, 2003, 02:25

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker
DD - insulting mods is NOT a good idea

Quote:

Are you the argument police?

Basically, yes

he's a mod

So mods can insult other posters? UR's attack came out of nowhere but his own personal grudge against DinoDoc. It was one of his usual snarky, "drive-by postings" that he has tried on me (quite unsuccessfully, I might add.

) over and over again.

Chemical Ollie · December 8, 2003, 19:04

As if Iraq wasn't enough, how about Afghanistan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3300951.stm

Quote:

The peace of Hutala village has been shattered.

US military helicopters, take off and land, throwing up dust devils.

Villagers, sitting on their haunches, watch impassively.

They are huddled around a heap of hats and shoes, which have been ripped by shrapnel.

Marbles are scattered across the ground.

Nine children and one man died here on Saturday morning, when two US-military planes, targeting what a coalition spokesman described as a "known terrorist", opened fire with rockets and bullets.

Picking up a dusty hat, villager Sarwar Khan says: "This is all that remains of one of my boys".

His two sons and one of his nephews were killed.

---

What moron would send two attack aircraft against a single person hiding among civilians (and only a minor taliban leader)?

Well, at least there are now nine (future) terrorists less, aren't there?

SlowwHand · December 8, 2003, 19:39

Quote:

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Too many Iraqi civilians are dying from U.S. soldiers sometimes resorting to deadly force in a reckless and indiscriminate way...

Iraq: U.S. Military Responses Imperil Journalists

I know the job is dangerous - but for crying out loud!

This reminds me of the most lethal recorded friendly fire incident of the war...

In the line of fire

The convoy attacked was in the open in well marked non military vehicles...

Still, that is only journos after all...

Iraqi Civilians Fall Victim to Hair Triggers

If you're REALLY keen...!

'Within the rules of engagement!!?'

The point is that if the US isn't going to accept the Intl War Crimes treaty (apparently with good reason!), then it MUST deal with its troops instead of whitewashing every friendly fire incident there is and letting the killers off scott free! If soldiers knew they could be punished for such negligence - perhaps less innocent people would die?

Perhaps less US troops would die too...

This is probably the biggest blindside of the US forces there is - they seem incapable of dealing with this kind of operation...

There needs to be training - all UK troops are trained in this manner, and greater accountability for the consequences of such actions!

Patroklos · December 8, 2003, 20:42

You can also assume that the Brits can focus their attention a little more, occupying one major city of shittes. Nothing against the brits, but there are a smaller force occupying a much smaller area and thus are not so prone to spreading themselves out and making easy targets. Also, bieng that Basra is the only major port in Iraq and commerce will of course start their first, and already has, the populaton their is feeling the benefits of freedom now instead of later.

-Pat