Apolyton University Mod (PTW version)

alexman · November 27, 2002, 15:07

This is the Play the World version of the AU mod we are going to use for Apolyton University.

Please post your comments before we start the next game! Also, if anyone would like to go over the bix file and see if I missed anything, I would be very grateful!

alexman · November 27, 2002, 15:10

Code:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
                     APOLYTON UNIVERSITY MOD 1.16
------------------------------------------------------------------------
              (based on player 1's Patch Suggestion Mod)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This MOD serves as a base for the Apolyton University curriculum, which 
aims to improve the skills of participants through discussion of their 
strategy in a series of common games.

The goals of this MOD (in rough order of importance) are to:
- Improve the AI.
- Present the player with more strategic decisions.
- Change as little as possible, to preserve the unmodded Civ3 flavor.
- Preserve historical accuracy.
- Reduce micromanagement. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

GROUND UNITS
------------

Action:  Increased attack of Riflemen by 1
         Increased attack of Infantry and Guerillas by 2
Reason:  Make these units better-used by the AI.
Comment: The AI sometimes uses these units for attack.

Action:  Increased attack and defense of Marines and Paratroopers by 2
Reason:  To make these units more valuable, and the optional techs
         tied to them worth researching.
Comment: They are as expensive as Tanks, yet their stats are still 
         much lower.

Action:  Reduced defense of Modern Armor by 2
Reason:  To encourage combined arms.
Comment: The AI protects its offense-flagged units with defensive units 
         anyway. Modern Armor was too good for its cost (and still is).

Action:  Added zero-range bombard ability to Archers (2), Bowmen (2), 
         Longbowmen (4), and Guerillas (8).
         Added Zone of Control to guerillas.
Reason:  To make Archers, Longbowmen, and Guerillas worth building at 
         the same time as Swordsmen, Medieval Infantry, and Infantry.
Comment: Combined Arms! Stacks of units with archers have some benefit. 
         The AI often puts archers in its cities for counterattack.
         The AI sometimes builds Guerillas, even with access to rubber.

Action:  Increased cost of Cannon and Hwach'a by 20, and their ROF by 1
Reason:  To balance this unit compared to other ground bombard units.
Comment: Under the standard rules, catapults are always more cost-
         effective than cannons. With this change, cannons are more 
         cost-effective when bombarding a defender of strength 8 and 
         above. Increased cost and ROF means that you need less units
         to do the same amount of damage (less micromanagement).

Action:  Increased Musketeer movement by 1 and lowered its attack by 1
         Removed AI offense flag.
Reason:  To make the AI use this unit properly.
Comment: Still remains in the spirit of the original unit. A defensive 
         unit that can be used in an offensive role: supporting knights.

Action:  Keshiks gain ability to ignore movement penalties on Hills. 
         Elephants gain ability to ignore movement penalties in Jungles.
Reason:  To strengthen these rather weak unique units.
Comment: How can a Keshik take more time to move in mountains than in 
         hills? Elephants are have familiarity and endurance in jungles.

Action:  Reduced cost of Conquistador by 10
Reason:  To strengthen this unique unit without making knights obsolete.
Comment: They replace 20-cost explorers, after all.

Action:  Increased bombard range of Cruise Missile by 2 and ROF by 1
Reason:  To strengthen this unit, since fighters now have lethal bombard
Comment: Civilopedia says Cruise Missiles have a range of hundreds of 
         miles. ROF=4 means it has an extra shot and a chance to kill 
         healthy veteran units.

Action:  Cruise Missiles can no longer be loaded into transports.
Reason:  To remove an exploit used only by human players.
Comment: This unit could be moved into transports, but not loaded from 
         cities. The AI did not know to use this exploit.

Action:  Koreans can now capture Cannons.
Reason:  To strengthen this weak civilization.
Comment: Koreans used to destroy Cannons of other civs. They can now
         capture them and upgrade them to Hwach'a or Artillery.

Action:  Added airlift flag to Catapult, Cannon, Hwach'a, Artillery, 
         Radar Artillery, Explorer, Scout, Leader.
Reason:  To reduce micromanagement. 
Comment: You can airlift tanks, why not cannons? Leaders can use planes.

Action:  Removed explore command from Leader, Catapult, Cannon, Hwach'a, 
         Artillery, Radar Artillery,  Settler, Worker, Tactical Nuke.
Reason:  These units are not meant for exploring territory.
Comment: Minor point. Reduces erroneous commands.

AIR UNITS
---------
         
Action:  Increased ROF of Fighters and Jet Fighters by 1
         Gave all fighters lethal sea bombard (and AI air bombard flag)
         In addition, F-15 and Stealth Fighter have lethal land bombard
Reason:  To balance fighters versus bombers.
Comment: Fighters are now effective for finishing off weak targets. 
         Carriers with Fighters become a naval offensive threat. 
         Stealth Fighters are a viable alternative to Stealth Bombers. 
         The following table shows the change in cost-effectiveness of 
         each air unit in bombarding.

Action:  Increased Helicopter, Paratrooper, and Bomber range by 2
         Increased transport capacity of Helicopter by 1
Reason:  To make these units more useful.
Comment: It is now somewhat easier to land troops behind enemy lines. 
         Increased naval movement of this mod without this change would 
         have made it easier for ships to stay out of bomber range.

NAVAL UNITS
-----------

Action:  Added one movement point to all ships after Industrialization.
Reason:  To strengthen naval units and to reduce micromanagement.
Comment: Naval movement was too low compared to late-game land and air 
         movement.

Action:  Added one additional movement point to Carrier
Reason:  To reduce micromanagement of carrier protection.
Comment: Battleships and Carriers do not have a big difference in speed 
         in real life.

Action:  Reduced the cost of the Privateer by 20
         Added one movement point to Privateer.
Reason:  To make this unit more useful
Comment: It was not a cost-effective unit. Privateers should be cheaper 
         than the more powerful Frigates.

Action:  Moved prerequisite of the Ironclad to Industrialization.
         Increased cost of Ironclad by 20.
         Increased attack strength of Frigate and Wan-O-War by 1.
Reason:  To make Frigates more useful.
Comment: Frigates became obsolete too fast. Ironclads were more cost-
         effective for bombarding than Battleships.

Action:  Ironclad upgrades to Battleship
Reason:  To compensate for reducing the life of this unit by making it 
         available later.
Comment: Civilopedia says that the ironclad was "the forerunner of the 
         modern battleship".

Action:  Frigate, Privateer, and Man-O-War upgrade to Destroyer
Reason:  To encourage building these units
Comment: The upgrade cost is significant.

Action:  Increased attack of Submarines and Nuclear Subs by 2
Reason:  To make these units (and hence AEGIS) more effective.
Comment: Makes them more dangerous, but still vulnerable if attacked.

Action:  Galleys use 2 movement points to enter Ocean.
Reason:  To make the Great Lighthouse less unbalancing on island maps 
         To make Caravels more powerful for exploring
Comment: Humans recognize the value of the G. Lighthouse and build it 
         at all costs when isolated. The AI has no such priority.
         Makes suicide exploration missions by humans less effective.
         Delays intercontinental contacts and settling of empty 
         continents. This might make Explorers more useful.

Action:  Increased bombard strength of Battleships, and AEGIS by 2.
Reason:  To balance the bombard effectiveness of naval units.
Comment: Ironclads, Destroyers, and Frigates were more cost-effective 
         bombard units than Battleships.

IMPROVEMENTS AND WONDERS
------------------------

Action:  Added Communism-specific improvement (Secret Police).
         Reduces corruption, veteran units, cost 40, zero upkeep. 
Reason:  To make Communism a competitive war-time government.
Comment: Monarchy with a good FP placement is still better than 
         Communism. But when built in every city, this improvement 
         brings Communism to the level of Monarchy for empires with
         a bad FP placement (such as most AI empires).

Action:  Great Wall now also adds city walls to all towns in continent.
Reason:  To make this wonder worth building.
Comment: This will mainly affect the outskirts of your empire (just 
         like the real Great Wall), since core cities will be larger 
         than size-6 after Construction. 

Action:  Increased happy faces for Cure for Cancer by 2
Reason:  To make this wonder worth building.
Comment: In the late game, when most empires have access to 6-8 
         luxuries, 1000 shields for one happy face is just not worth it.

Action:  Longevity requires Sanitation instead of Genetics
         Reduced cost by 200
Reason:  To make this wonder worth building.
Comment: By the time of Genetics, most cities are already at max size

Action:  Military Academy no longer requires a victorious Army.
Reason:  To make Armies more common, and war for leaders less attractive
Comment: The Heroic Epic still requires a victorious Army. 

Action:  SS Life Support needs Recycling instead of Superconductor
Reason:  To force players to research more modern techs before launching
Comment: The civilopedia mentions the importance of recycling for this.

Action:  SS Stasis Chamber needs Genetics instead of Synthetic Fibers
Reason:  To force players to research more modern techs before launching
Comment: Cryogenics need an understanding of biology, including Genetics

Action:  SS Docking Bay requires Robotics instead of Space Flight
Reason:  To force players to research more modern techs before launching
Comment: Just say you need robotic arms to load the docking bay.

Action:  Increased the cost of all SS components by 50%
Reason:  To make Manufacturing Plants a viable option.
Comment: The AI still places a high priority on building spaceship parts

Action:  Increased the upkeep of Research Labs by 1
         Increased cost of Research Labs by 40
Reason:  To make building this improvement less of an obvious choice.
Comment: The AI benefits as it generally builds these after the human.

Action:  Moved prerequisite of Pyramids to Mathematics
Reason:  To increase the value of Mathematics.
Comment: The AI now researches this tech earlier, so the human cannot 
         bank on getting it with minimum research and selling it.

GOVERNMENTS
--------------

Actions: Increased corruption for Republic from Nuisance to Problematic.
         Increased worker speed by 1 for Communism.
         Increased experience of Communist Spies/Diplomats by one level.
         Added 1 free unit per city for Democracy.
         Added 2 free units per metropolis for Democracy.
         Reduced all resistance modifiers versus Communism by 5.
         Doubled assimilation chance for Communism.
Reason:  To reduce the relative effectiveness of Republic 
         and the relative weakness of Communism
Comment: Non-religious civs rarely had a reason to be in any other form 
         of government than Republic. Communism was never worth it, 
         even for religious civs.

GLOBAL CHANGES
--------------

Action:  Doubled value of Wealth
Reason:  To make this build option sometimes worth choosing.
Comment: It's still better to build units and disbanding them in corrupt 
         cities (instead of using Wealth and rush-buying), but at least 
         now Wealth is more useful than it used to be.

Action:  Doubled effect of taxmen and scientists.
Reason:  To encourage 20+ size cities.
Comment: This might benefit the human more than the AI for cities under 
         max-size, and it adds some micromanagement. On the hand, having 
         a few large cities rather than many small ones reduces 
         micromanagement, and presents the player with another decision.

Action:  Doubled effect of entertainers
Reason:  To help the AI
Comment: The AI uses entertainers instead of the luxury slider. 

Action:  Reduced cost of propaganda by 50%
Reason:  To make this option worth pursuing.
Comment: Playtesting has indicated that this reduction is not too much.

Action:  Taxmen require currency
         Scientists require Mathematics
Reason:  To increase the AI-value of these technologies.
Comment: Marketplaces are important, often delayed to be built by the AI 
         because of the low priority of currency. Mathematics was often 
         ignored by the AI until late.

Action:  Reduced appearance ratio of all strategic resources by 25%.
Reason:  To help create "killer-AIs"
Comment: AI civs without access to resources can be conquered easier, 
         leaving fewer but stronger opponents.

Action:  Increased optimal number of cities for all map sizes by 50%
         Reduced percentage of optimal cities for all levels by 1/3
Reason:  To make the AI more aggressive in pursuing land
Comment: Is transparent to the human player, except for the fact that
         in delays the availability of the FP. Encourages the larger AI
         empires to capture (not raze) cities. May induce the AI to win 
         by domination. The behavior of the AI in expanding was not 
         changed after Firaxis made courthouses and police stations 
         increase the OCN by 25% each.

alexman · November 27, 2002, 15:11

Code:


CHANGES TO AI
------------------------------

Action:  Added "Enables Alliances" ability to Code of Laws, Literature,
         Republic, Electricity, Atomic Theory, Radio, Nuclear Power
         Added "Enables Right of Passage Treaties" ability to Literature
         Added "Enables Communication Trading" ability to Literature and 
         Printing Press
Reason:  To make the AI emphasize these technologies more.
Comment: These abilities make no difference in gameplay, since they are 
         already given by Writing (a prerequisite of all of them)

Action:  Added "Enables Military Alliances" ability to Polytheism
Reason:  To help Religious AI civs get to Monarchy sooner.
Comment: Writing still also gives Alliances, since you need an embassy 
         to form an alliance. Even though there is an (almost 
         negligible) effect on gameplay, this is more a trick to get the 
         AI to research Polytheism.

Action:  Removed the AI offense flag from Mech. Infantry, Impi, Numidian
         Mercenary.
Reason:  To prevent the AI from attacking with these units.
Comment: Each unit can have only one AI strategy, so Carthage and Zulu 
         used to build their defensive UU for part of their offense.
         Infantry built for attack is converted to a defensive role when
         Upgraded. This makes the AI have to build new offensive units, 
         and Tanks are always available whenever Mech. Infantry is.

Action:  Increased "percentage of optimal cities" for the AI by 50%
Reason:  To compensate for poor AI Forbidden Palace placement.
Comment: Chieftain level is identical to Regent, except for this value.
         AI plays at this level, which is no longer meant for the human.

Action:  Added "Emphasize Production" to all AI civilizations.
Reason:  To compensate for rapid AI population growth.
Comment: The AI often grows its cities too fast and has to compensate by 
         assigning entertainers. Large unproductive cities are not good.

Action:  Changed AI build-often list as shown below
         Increased aggression of Iroquois and Chinese by 2
         Decreased aggression of Babylon by 2
Reason:  To bring AI behavior closer to what expert human players do
Comment: Added production to all civs to encourage factories. Added 
         trade to all civs to encourage harbors and marketplaces. 
         Removed growth from all civs because the AI already emphasizes 
         growth too much. Encouraging AI to take advantage of their 
         traits: Scientific have science flagged, Religious have 
         happiness, Militaristic have units. Civs that are not 
         Scientific, not Religious, and not Militaristic, build Culture.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Civ Agg Off Def Art Stl Wrk Nav Air Gth Prd Hap Sci Wlt Trd Epl Clt
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Rom  4   X   X                       -   X               +
  Egy  3                               -   X   +           +       -
  Gre  3                       X           +       X       X       -
  Bab 4->2                                 +       -       +       X
  Ger  5   X                               +       X       +       -
  Rus  4                           X   -   +       X       +
  Chn 2->4 +                           -   X       -       +
  USA  3                           X   -   X               +       X
  Jpn  4   X                   X           +   X           +
  Fra  1                                   +   -           X       X
  Ind  1                               -   +   +       X   X       -
  Per  4   X                               +       +   -   X
  Azt  4   X                               +   X           +
  Zul  5   X                               +               +
  Iro 2->4 +                           -   +   X           +   -
  Eng  3                       X           +           X   X       X
  Mgl  5   X                               X               +
  Spn  3                       X           +   +       -   X   -
  Sca  4   X                   X           +               +
  Ott  3          X                        +   -   +       +
  Cel  4   X                               +   +           X       -
  Ara  4                               -   +   +           +       -
  Car  2                       X           +               X       +
  Kor  2          +                        +       +   -   X

  X = build often
  - = removed
  + = added
------------------------------------------------------------------------

VERSION HISTORY

1.11
----
Added Scenario Description
Moved Mathematics in F6 screen so it no longer overlaps with Philosophy
Research labs now really cost 240, as mentioned in readme.

1.12
----
Replaced Growth by Production for Iroquois, for real this time.
Galleys use 2 movement points to enter Ocean.

1.13
----
Guerillas have zero-range bombard (8)
Increased attack of Guerillas to 8
Bombard strength of F-15 and Stealth Fighters back to original (4)
Bombard strength of Jet Fighters back to original (2)
Cost of Stealth Bomber back to original (240)
Increased aggression of Iroquois and Chinese to 4
Reduced aggression of Babylonians to 2
Chinese offensive units are a build-often item
Increased optimal number of cities for all map sizes by 50%
Reduced percent of optimal number of cities for all levels by 1/3
Replaced Diplomats by Alliances in all techs after Writing

1.14
----
Removed wheeled ability from all units where it was previously added
Radar Artillery back to original (1 move, no oil/rubber)
All ground artillery now has defense strength of 1.
Upkeep of Banks back to original (1).
Movement of Frigate back to original (4).
Movement of Privateer reduced to 4.
Increased attack strength of Frigate and Man-O-War by 1.
Increased cost of Ironclad to 100.
Battleship and AEGIS ROF back to original (2).
Increased bombard strength of Battleship and AEGIS by 2.
Removed AI offense strategy from Impi and Numidian Mercenary.
Unit support for Communism and Monarchy back to original.
Reduced distance corruption for Communism and Despotism by 1/3.
Increased experience of Spies and Diplomats for Communism by one level.
Reduced resistance modifier of Communism vs all governments by 5.
Increased assimilation chance for Communism to 8%.
Cruise missiles can no longer be loaded into transports.

1.15
----
Reduced appearance ratio of strategic resources by 25%.
Removed corruption changes to Communism and Despotism.

1.16
----
Ground bombard units no longer have a defense strength.
Koreans can now capture cannons.
Added ZOC to guerillas.
Added Communism-specific building (Secret Police).
Removed "explore" command from several units not meant to explore.

Dominae · November 27, 2002, 15:53

Good job getting this out alexman!

Now, when do when get to play with it (officially)?

Dominae

Theseus · November 27, 2002, 18:55

Awesome!!

You know what would be cool (but not doable, I think): matching up the Mod against stock!

Dominae, give me a couple of days to work on 205, and then we can get the next one going.

Theseus · November 27, 2002, 19:46

Ummm, it occurs to me: should we set up the next AU game to somewhat match *another* game many of us are involved in?

(shhhh)

ducki · November 27, 2002, 21:26

Quote:

shhhh

does that have anything to do with that civgroup shield you have by your avatar?

On another thought, what about another recycled AU 10X class, if that "*another* game" is undoable?

Konquest02 · November 27, 2002, 22:30

Maybe we should have a regular Civ3 and a PTW game going on at the same time, with the same map... Then we could compare AI performance between the two. As for AI placement, it could be a continents game with 2-3 continents (i.e. One with regular Civ3 civs, one with PTW and a mixed one) on a standard or large (with lots of water in the large one...). As for the Civ3 version, well we'll have only regular civs...

What do you think?

--Kon--

Dominae · November 27, 2002, 23:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
Dominae, give me a couple of days to work on 205, and then we can get the next one going.

Ok, sorry for being so anxious. I quit 205 for the no-good reason that everyone hated me and I wasn't feeling up to conducting war for the rest of the game. I'll probably go back and finish the darn thing, I think I was just cranky at the time.

Dominae

Theseus · November 28, 2002, 03:00

Oh, believe me, I am well and truly hated in 205 as well... I just have had NO time to play and post.

ducki · November 29, 2002, 01:19

Hey guys!

I thought of a potential "fix" for the Great Wall, if the current one - granting free Walls in all towns - is insufficient.

Change it to The Aqueducts, a new great wonder that grants free Aqueducts to all cities. I think that would make it worth building for both the AI and the human - we'd have to make it more expensive, probably - and it retains, IMO, the "flavor" of Civ as well as posing the player with a strategic choice by giving yet another valuable beeline in the Ancient Age.

Thoughts?

player1 · November 29, 2002, 05:13

Of course that would not be Great Wall.

FrustratedPoet · November 29, 2002, 06:01

Quote:

Originally posted by player1
Of course that would not be Great Wall.

Which is why he suggested changing it to "The Aqueducts". The Great Wall is useless anyway so cutting it from the game wouldn't hurt.

player1 · November 29, 2002, 07:11

I don't know about you, buy conquering enemy civ with Great Wall, is not so easy as it sounds.

ducki · November 29, 2002, 15:50

FrustratedPoet is right... The Great Wall is (for the most part) useless and never anywhere near the top of the human player's Build Priorities... it's a fallback for when the AI beats you to the wonder you actually wanted and there are no others that are buildable. (Edit: Except for when you play China and want to use it to trigger a GA instead of waiting for Riders.)

Also, Construction is never a beeline or priority research path.

All I'm saying is, if the current AU PtW version of the Great Wall doesn't do enough good, maybe we could consider changing it to The (Great) Aqueduct.

It would still be in line with the flavor of the game, the flavor of the particular tech required, and would definitely be more beneficial to both the player and the AI...
... at least in my opinion...
and it would add more strategic choices to the Ancient Age. I'm sure we've all been faced with a map that didn't lend itself well to riverside placement of cities or where it took ages to build Aqueducts in "important" cities, and I'm sure the AI has an even harder time with that, so it seemed like a good idea...

... or at least good enough to bring up for debate.

punkbass2000 · November 29, 2002, 16:26

It could be a Roman Wonder, potentially...

FrustratedPoet · November 29, 2002, 17:33

I think The Great Aqueduct would be a fine addition to the game.

ducki · November 30, 2002, 02:42

I don't know if this is purely from Soren's tweaks or if the AU mod could have affected this, but it looks almost like I did this... but I didn't!

FrustratedPoet · November 30, 2002, 04:38

Where's all the irrigation?

That's a sweeet pic.
I assume that is an AI city from the AU mod. (sorry, I think that's what you said, but it's early in the morning here and I'm still half-asleep).

BRC · November 30, 2002, 12:22

Ducki- That looks good. How long does that trend last?

ducki · November 30, 2002, 15:50

Don't know. It's current, and it was an accident that I noticed. I was trying to improve relations with Embassies and realized that Xerxes and another AI were within 1 turn of each other on this thing.

I'm 30 turns behind them because I got a late start, but it's really just a Garden prebuild. I'm afraid I might not make it.

Two civs, each within a turn of each other on the Pyramids...I don't recall the other AIs tile improvement, but I've got the save if anyone wants to take a look.

Worthingtons · December 1, 2002, 01:14

Good mod Alexman, although i'm .. concerned about some of those naval changes..., a wooden ship upgrading to a metal destroyer!!?!?

FrustratedPoet · December 1, 2002, 06:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Rothy
Good mod Alexman, although i'm .. concerned about some of those naval changes..., a wooden ship upgrading to a metal destroyer!!?!?

I don't think that real-world realism plays any part in the decisions for this mod.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you here, though, is there a gameplay reason why you don't like that change?

player1 · December 1, 2002, 10:38

It was done just in order to make AI free his reserves from useless Frigates and Ironclads in later game.

And in order to remove those units from build-quese in modern age.

Still, cost is HUGE (120gp per unit).

P.S.
Same could be applied to Galleon -> Transport
But nobody complains about that.

ChaotikVisions · December 1, 2002, 19:27

Hmm. I'm not sure if this is just a mis-documented change or something that was left out. Iroqois are said to have Off/Prd/Hpy/Trd in the readme, but in the mod have growth instead of production. Wondering if this was meant to be or just an accident.

Anyway, nice mod. I'm adding the changes in from the AU mod except for the air/naval ones into a mod for my personal use, since theres other changes to naval/air and tech costs from my mod it isn't the same, but i'll let you know if the AI does anything interesting.

alexman · December 1, 2002, 20:35

Quote:

Originally posted by ChaotikVisions
Hmm. I'm not sure if this is just a mis-documented change or something that was left out. Iroqois are said to have Off/Prd/Hpy/Trd in the readme, but in the mod have growth instead of production. Wondering if this was meant to be or just an accident.

Thanks for spotting that. It's an error in the bix.

Theseus · December 2, 2002, 00:22

Report from the field:

AU 205, and the Persians are appoaching me with THREE Battleship / Carrier pairs.

I (of course) have bad habits, and am not prepared at all.

Jaybe · December 2, 2002, 00:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
Report from the field:

AU 205, and the Persians are appoaching me with THREE Battleship / Carrier pairs.

I (of course) have bad habits, and am not prepared at all.

Quick! Crank out those interceptors!

nbarclay · December 2, 2002, 17:31

Quote:

Originally posted by ducki
Hey guys!

I thought of a potential "fix" for the Great Wall, if the current one - granting free Walls in all towns - is insufficient.

Change it to The Aqueducts, a new great wonder that grants free Aqueducts to all cities. I think that would make it worth building for both the AI and the human - we'd have to make it more expensive, probably - and it retains, IMO, the "flavor" of Civ as well as posing the player with a strategic choice by giving yet another valuable beeline in the Ancient Age.

Thoughts?

That seems a little TOO powerful to me.

FrustratedPoet · December 2, 2002, 17:39

The cost could easily be increased, but do you think that even if we made it the most costly Ancient Age wonder it would still be over-powered?