AU 107 Spoilers

[alexman]

Post spoilers for AU 107: Son of "so very cold..." here.

[Theseus]

Does anyone else find this as depressing as I do? On the other hand, the come-back will be glorious!!

I'm playing AU mod 1.04, Emperor... my first pleasant surprise was on establishing an embassy with England (I think), which was the only cheap one. Mining, and not irrigation!! Hurray!

Aside from the fact that this is a max challenge, as I established more embassies I observed OUTSTANDING AI civ performance. Uhhh, Rome is struggling by with a barracks, temple, and library, and the strong AI civ capitols have all of those, as well as colosseums, cathedrals, GWs, and working on universities??!! (Not to mention my Spearmen versus their Musketmen!!)

Nothing fancy so far... early on, my first contact was Persia landing a Settler / Spear combo. I got what I could, and whacked him with one Archer and three Warriors, to hell with reputation. MORTAL TERROR of an Immortal invasion, but they came two by two, and I could handle it. Filled the island... 2 tile spacing in all of the badlands.

It's now 950AD. I've met everyone, am at peace, everyone's polite except Persia, have no maps except France's territory, and am waaaay behind in tech. I've got 19 towns and 1 city (Rome). Beelined for Republic, and disbanded all Warriors and Archers after the gov change, with nothing but Spearmen now. One Galley exploring. Exporting all resources, including my only iron and horses, which is scary but the right thing to do.

Not enough horsepower (no pun intended) to attack Persia, even when I get to Cavs. Must wait for Tanks. Considering the Machiavelli MPP Dance when I get to Riflemen. GA is coing to be a btich... might have to wait for total resource denial, and a vulnerable Longbowman.

I guess Ive been spoiled lately... haven;t been in a situation where I couldn;t break one of the cycles fairly early. This degree of catch-up sucks, but DAMN am I gonna enjoy being the grim reaper!

[Theseus]

I dreamed of this game last night... and woke up with a shout!! (my fiancee was pissed).

What an idiot!! Beelined for Republic... all wrong, all wrong.

I'm starting over.

[Theseus]

What a world of difference... it's still a ***** though.

[Catt]

This is a devilish start. Since I didn't know it would be an AU game when I started, I won't have a lot of good early screenshots (I'l reload for a few picks).

I started my game with research on Bronze Working - figuring I'd nab the Colossus - I've gotten so used to being able to build wonders on Emperor. A bit of exploring caused my heart to sink. Beelined for Map Making so I could build harbors -- figured I needed people power. After Map Making I beelined for Republic - figured I needed the commerce boost and I wasn't likely to grow too many cities beyond size 6 . Colussus was built while I still had something like 20 turns to go. Made what in retrospect was a silly error -- after my initial exploration, I decided my capitol should be centered in the island -- I disbanded Rome by building a settler at 2 pop and relocated my Palace to the center of the island (just west of the wheat, IIRC). Of course later I would realize that a Palace relocation off of "Hilly Ice Island" was imperative, and I could have done just as well with a Palace in Rome and an FP to Rome's west.

Had terrible luck with barbs. Kept popping huts to find barbs, and they kept killling my units . I had two elite warriors from barbs, but they were largely wortheless -- who would I use a warrior against? On the other hand, I think I lost 4 warriors and 1 galley to barbs.

With the beeline to Map Making I was actually able to make contact with most civs first -- nice, but only served to confirm how incredibly far ebhind I was. I had not yet discovered Iron Working when the first barbarian uprising occured - indicating that at least 2 other civs had entered the Middle Ages! Beyond building temples, barracks and harbors, my cities produced nothing but warriors and several galleys. I was able to upgrade 8 warriors to Legionaries and dart across the western channel to Persia in four galleys -- by the time the galleys had crossed back and had movement points for the next run, I had built the cash for another 8 warrior upgrade.

I debated long and hard about invading Persia or Babylon -- I defintiely needed to establish an empire off of "Hilly Ice" Island. Persia was the weaker civ, had a sole supply of iron (for the deadly immortals), had a sole supply of horses, and was exceedingly week culturally. But I didn't want to share a border with the maniacal Germans. Babylon had more resources, did not inspire fear with its bowmen, but had a strong cultural presence and also seemed to have a lot of jungle tiles. Given my frustration at non-industrious workers' challenges with forest and my concern that my culturally pathetically weak civ couldn't sustain war in Babylon, I selected the Persians. They obliged by making a demand and declaring war just before I would have done so (before my first 4 galley-loads entered Persian coastal tiles).

My war against Persia was successful. I managed to take the easternmost section of Persia, and marched fairly quickly towards the sole Persian iron source. When that city fell, I felt I had the Persian war in my hands. Perhaps countering my horrible barb luck, I generated a GL on my second elite battle -- hello Legionary army! I also began building the FP back on Hilly Ice Island, on the southern shore west of Rome's start spot.

Much more to come later (including the fact that at one poitn I began thinking of how to describe my "humiliating defeat" but now think I have a chance -- even though I may not secure ToE for the first time in a recent memory).

As far as technological backwardness . . . well, after having traded for all the Ancient Age techs upon peace with Persia and then seeing Zimbabwean galleys about to make contact -- I was researching Theology at 0% with one scientist for 40 turns -- at about 15 turns to go, IIRC, someone built Magellan's Voyage! I figured I was about 2/3's of an age behind, if not an entire age.

Quick thoughts: England was crushed, respawned and then eliminated quickly. Theseus -- I am seeing an awful lot of AI mining tiles for some reason, and I am playing a standrad Civ 3 rule set.

Catt

[FrustratedPoet]

FP's Game-In-Progress Report. Part One

Regent Level
AU Mod version

4000 BC - The location of our capital city is not as bad as we had feared, but our Gods advise us that there is a harsh road ahead of us. We are suprmely confident however, and shall prevail! We begin by transferring our intial workforce to the forest near Rome instead of the lake. The city will grow more slowly that way, it is true, but the additional production we shall accrue will help us gain more soldiers to scout out our terrain faster.

3750 BC - Our first warrior found a village in the hills to the east, unfortunately the encampment was deserted when he arrived. Bah! Our God's seem intent on presenting us with the hardest task possible. We, however, remain undaunted - the Romans are made of stern stuff!

3500 BC - Our scouts report an abundance of Silks in the vicinity of Rome. This wonderful luxury shall surely aid us in future trade negotiations.

3200 BC - Uh oh! Despite the warnings from our Gods we had been unprepared for the reality of our situation. Our island is small and the terrain is rugged, we shall need to get off this rock as soon as possible if we are to encounter (and conquer) other cultures.

1550 BC - Our initial phase of rapid Empire expansion is proceeding nicely and we have grown to 4 cities. A few measely Barbarians have been put to the sword and, although we expect many future encounters with them, we hold their activities in contempt and will have no hesitation in pounding them to dust.

[FrustratedPoet]

1000 BC - The Barbarian attacks grow stronger by the day, they are sending horsemen at us now. However, our warriors are gaining good experience from our victories over these simple men and we have decided to postpone their eradication for a millenia or two. They make no dent in our Imperial crown so we shall despose of them at our leisure.

550 BC - Our Empire now consists of 6 cities and our two bands of settlers will soon make that 8. Horses have been sighted in the north-west and we intend to domesticate them for our own use: neither man nor beast will stop us from achieving domination over this world. Our first galley has set forth from Neapolis in search of far and distant lands and it has already crushed a Barbarian vessel. Soon other cultures will feel our wrath, our terrain is harsh and unproductive, but it breeds tough men - a fact that others will soon have revealed to them at their cost.

[FrustratedPoet]

510 BC - The Persian city of Hatra has been sighted by our Galley. This tribe of savages may have access to technnology that we do not, but their annoyance at out arrival betrays a lack of the civilised behaviour that our glorious Empire prides itself upon. In order to educate them and make them more receptive to future negotiations we gift them a small amount of gold. One can only trust that the riches shall not go to their head.

450 BC - The heathen Persians agree to exchange maps of their territory for ours. We are loathe to divulge deatails of our Kingdom to such a rabble, but feel that we shall gain more from the exchange over the course of time.

250 BC - A curse upon the Persian Empire! They stubbornly refuse to share their knowledge with us. Do they not know with whom they are dealing?
When our Legions are ready for battle and poised to strike at their heart they may come to regret their folly.

210 BC - Our exploring Galley has encountered the German leader Bismarck. He has agreed to share with us knowledge of his lands, he has many cities and the terrain looks good. Hmmm .... I wonder what our Palace would look like if transferred to Berlin. These mountains are beginning to bore me.

170 BC - Our Empire has grown to 10 cities now, but we have used up all the workable land. Conquest is the only way to advance our purpose now. The slow progress of working our Iron deposits is enraging me. This work should have been completed centuries ago! Someone's going to get such a whipping for this...

----------------------------------------------------

Well, that's all for today folks. I hope you enjoyed that.
I'm not doing very well so far, am I? God knows why I neglected to connect up my Iron for so long.... just dumbness on my part I suppose.
Hopefully there will be a few all-action war pics to go with the next exciting installment of my struggle against extinction.

[DaveMcW]

I wanted to invade somebody to get off this glacier as soon as possible, so I went for Bronze/Iron Working at 10% science and covered the island with ICS and barracks. When the first Persian settler landed and built a town I razed it with warriors, then used the peace treaty as a bargaining chip to buy contacts and Map Making.

Only the Persians, English, and Russians had a trade route open when my harbor finished, but silks to the English and Russians plus the last of my gold was enough to trade up to Monarchy. The revolution ended just as the Persian peace treaty expired.

The Persians nicely started the war with a demand. The Germans finally got a trade route so I paid silks and 11 gpt for an alliance. While I waited a few turns for the gold to upgrade my warriors, the Persian army left the coast to invade Germany. My legionaires easily took over the fertile Persian coast and soon Persepolis fell, giving me the Pyramids!

This is where I really screwed up. I used a GL to rush the palace in Persepolis, but I had forgotten to build a harbor on the Persian continent! Four silk deals were cancelled for lack of a trade route and my reputation was shot. Oh well, beating techs out of them is more fun anyway.

The Germans were willing to pay 12 gpt to renew our alliance, but I didn't want to commit to 20 more turns of fighting. Instead, I offered an ROP to prevent them from turning on me.

Just as I took the Persian iron city, they upgraded to musketmen. When my golden age ended I signed a peace treaty for Monotheism, Engineering, and Feudalism. I figure I'm 6-8 techs behind right now on Emperor using the standard rules, and I'm racing to build a big enough army to take Germany when they finally stop beating on Persia.

-DaveMcW

[DaveMcW]

Apparently if you preview your post you lose the attachment.

[DaveMcW]

20 towns and growing at 10 AD.

[FrustratedPoet]

OK ... I couldn't resist continuing. This game is too much fun!

-------------------------------------------

70 AD - We have made contact with the Russian Empire. They, like the other foolish brigands we have encountered, refuse to trade with us for any of their knowledge. My list of 'People Who Must Be Taught A Lesson' has had another name added to it...

260 AD - Our legions are massing, if the Persians only knew what was in store for them they would be shaking in their boots!! Unfortunately our Galleys are not able to transport large amounts of our soldiers in one go and so our Navy will have to expanded before any full-scale invasion can take place.
*Later that year*
Ha! The Persians have become abusive and demand tribute for their patience. I shall throw this puny demand in their faces. Rome has been for too long out of the limelight of the world stage. Come Persia! Bring all that you have, Rome is not afraid!
*The Persian envoy returns with news of their response: there will be no war .... yet.*
It seems the 'mighty' Persian Empire is but a collection of downy-cheecked young boys and weak old ladies, their threats were nothing but boast and bluster. When the time comes we shall show them how real men play the diplomatic game!

280 AD - We have now met both the French and English Empires and we are not impressed. While we ourselves have long been the scorn of the proud and haughty civilisations of Russia and Germany these two new-comers are trailing far behind even us in power. They may have the technology that we do not, but still they are weaklings. Perhaps one day they will be useful to me, however, one is ever in need of allies and the weaker contries are often the best. Once our wars are won I can destroy them with ease - if one allies with a major power one only makes them stronger by the effort. All this is far in the future, however, and my people have many miles to travel until then.

390 AD - The WAR has begun! Our mighty Roman legions have destroyed the town of Hatra. The settlement has sat on the far side of the channel for millenia now, serving as a symbol of Persian snobbery and as a challenge to our great Roman men to rise up and assert our personalities on the savages to the west. I have a dozen Legions waiting to replenish our raiding party. Some of my generals want to push straight on to Persepolis and burn the Persian capital to the ground, while others want to pass by Susa on the way and teach the proud Persians a lesson in civilised butchery.
I am undecided on this matter, but favour a short war if at all possible. I will make the Persians feel very sorry for the way they have treated me. If they will not trade with me then I'll thrash them and take what I want!
A wise man once said: "In diplomacy, speak softly and carry a big stick". I feel he should have continued: "If nobody listens to your voice, use the stick!".

[FrustratedPoet]

410 AD - I have heard many rumours about the supposed strengths of the Persian Immortal. I hear that in Berlin strong men weep at the very mention of their name, while in Moscow children are frightened into good behaviour by the fear of these sword-wielding furies. It appears the rumours were mistaken. These Immortals may very well be formidable in attack, but they commit themselves too early and are left open to counter-attack. Two units of them came in sight of my invasion army, they stood on eh dar side of the plain, sneering and goading me into attack. Ha! My men are well trained and it seems that the Immortal's supposed invincibility has made them soft, flabby and over-confident.

460 AD - The city of Susa has been razed to the ground. The buildings have been brought down to the rude earth upon which they were built. The dirt that the first Persian settlers felt beneath their feet when they founded the city is now stained with blood of their ancestors. The citizens of Susa fell beneath the swords of my Legions, and their cries echoed all the way back to Persepolis with a sound to make Xerxes tremble.
Can you hear me, O Great Emperor of Persia? Can you feel my footsteps on your continent? There is no place for you to hide Xerxes! My Legions shall fall upon you like plague and reduce your kingdom to ruins! Prepare yourself, for your doom is at hand!

470 AD - The sneaky Germans have founded the city of Brandenburg on the northermost tip of my continent! Bah! This is a grave insult indeed and should not go unpunished. However, the city is weak and isolated from the German Fatherland, it will do them no good. Let them keep it! They can sit there on that rock all they want.

520 AD - The Persians have been humbled! With hordes of Legions encamped at the gates of Persepolis Xerxes sent a quivering diplomat out to bargain with me. He offered contact with the Zulus and the technology of Literature for a truce. I considered his proposal for while before grudgingly accepting. I hate Xerxes with passion - and one day his head SHALL decorate the gates of palace - but my objectives for this campaign had been achieved. Susa and Hatra had been annihilated and 3 bands of Roman settlers were disembarking on the coast of what once used to be the Persian Empire. My foothold on this continent was assured and, furthermore, I have aspied the Babylonian civilisation on an island to the south-east. These people are urbane and scholarly, their territory is lush and fertile. Perhaps it is time for someone to teach them the art of war? I believe a spot just came open in my diary...

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PS-> What my bloodthirsy Roman friend neglected to mention was the stack of Persian Knights that were waiting on a hill west of Persepolis when I arrived. I felt confident, but not THAT confident.

[vmxa1]

Very nice

[Theseus]

FP, you actually put me in mind of the real-life Romans...

"What? The Semites dare oppose us??!! The sheer, unmitigated gall of the creatures... send another Legion. Slave, where's my flavored ice?"

Well done. Redde Caesari quae sunt Caesaris.

[BillChin]

Wow, I have had four or five starts on Emperor level. Perhaps my best was my first attempt. I played the standard version several times, and the weird isolation version (no galleys) once. I have a hard time getting Iron Working, and Map Making in place in any reasonable time frame to get off an invasion.

Barbarians are terrible. On the standard version I have seen two massive uprisings before 1000 B. C. on two separate games. Taking out all those barbs takes most of the units, many workers and any built up gold.

One game I switch to Republic fairly early and discover to my dismay that I have less gold than Despotism. This due to the lack of infrastructure (roads and marketplaces), no military police, and only one luxury.

I think I am going back to the drawing board to find a way to launch an invasion before 500 B. C. under the standard rules.
- Bill

[Catt]

I've been very busy with RL and had little time to play this weekend -- but I am up to the end of the Industrial Age -- had pulled about even by securing ToE while the other civs made war, bickered endlessly, and dilly-dallied without focused tech research paths -- I kept a low profile as the number 3 or 4 civ in terms of land area with a heasvily fortified German border. The ToE boost didn't last long however given my much weaker infrastructure, and with tanks just coming on line and while planning my conquest of the world, I have lost the brief tech lead that I held and will defintiely fall back when both Babylon and Germany receive Rocketry for free soon.

@BillChin - I need to go back and review my early game and whatever early saves I have -- IIRC I researched BW, beelined to Map Making, dropped back for Ceremonial Burial and then Beelined for Republic -- only then did I go for Iron Working and even at that time I delayed hooking up my Iron until I had a large force of veteran warriors ready for upgrades. I was able to launch an invasion with Legions (and Legions exclusively) against Persia. It was a huge success in that I took several cities including their sole iron supply and the capitol Persepolis. With the iron gone, I knew Persia's days were numbered.

As is often the case in Civ 3 comparison games, however, I suspect that my results had as much to do with luck as with anything else. Persia had apparentrly been struggling with a long war against England (and perhaps others), because they were definitely the most backward of the 4 civs -- if Persia had discovered Feudalsim and Chivalry at the time of my invasion (which, given the timeframe of the game, would not be unexpected in a more peaceful environment), I would have had to try my hand at attacking the culture-rich Babylonians.

Catt

EDIT: FP - a great read!

[BillChin]

My latest attempt on Emperor, standard rules, is more successful. One key is having enough units in the hills to avoid the massive Barbarian uprisings around 1050 B. C. when the AIs reach the next age. I space the cities out more than usual to cover more territory to help keep barb camps from forming. 40 barbs can ruin most early attack plans and did so in two separate attempts.

I get the Persia Territorial map for my World Map. I launch an attack with about six Legionaires, six archers, two spearmen, three galleys, around 500 B. C.

With the Golden Age money, I am able to get Germany to ally against Persia. Persia does have Pikemen and Knights, but thankfully no musketeers. Persia does not have enough production capability to crank out Knights, and mighty Germany is soaking up many of the Immortals. The war is going well.
- Bill

[Catt]

Completely forgot to discuss a mid-game tidbit. Somehting really wacky happened to research in the later half of the Middle Ages. I was about 10 turns from completing Theology on a 40-turn / one scientist pace(already had Gunpowder on the southern route through trades) when Berlin built Copernicus and, in a cascade, the Babs immediately built Magellan's. So, the AIs had Navigation when I was still 10 turns from Theology.

I intended to ignore all optional techs and just try to get to the Industrial Age with RRs and Factories. After discovering banking, I could see that no one had yet research Economics - so I went for it, got it, and with a pre-build, was only a turn or two away from Smith's. Trading Econ brought me up to Theory of Gravity, but I couldn't get Military Tradition to save my life. I decided to skip MT and hope to avoid an invasion until Infantry -- it was a huge gamble because the hyper aggressive Germans eventually enjoyed about 10 turns of peace after wars with France and Babylon, and of course they decided to come after me.

With some musketmen and a lot of Legions defending, I watched an unannounced German invasion of hordes of cavalries -- I even took a screenshot which I saved as "I think I'm screwed" becuase I figured the Germas were likely to trim my Persian holdings significantly, if not kick me back to my icy home. I immediately allied with France (a distant power to Germany, but stronger than me at the time) and began rushing troops to defensible positions. The Germans took and razed one city, but the diversion caused by French entrance into the war and a careful war of attrition allowed me to escape with one city and dozens of units lost. I paid a hefty tribute, but escaped relatively intact -- I went for Nationalism before Steam Power, and riflemen forces ultimately held the lines.

It was the first time in a long time that I have faced a decidely technilogically superior AI force, and my apprehensions were perhaps overblown -- I truly though the game was basically lost. The situation reminded me (unfortunately) that the AI is just not very good at prosecuting war, especially in a battle of attrition where movement points and terrain features figure so prominently. A human foe would have kicked me off the continent in about 10 or 15 turns -- 20 turns later that AI had inflicted pain, but I lost only one town which I has later able to rebuild.

Back to the wacky research -- I ended up securing ToE with a massivley over-early pre-build -- but I was still the first to Scientific Method. One or more AI's had researched Sanitation, Industrialization, Comunism and Espionage (and possibly even Refining), but I am still a little surprised about how I quickly "caught up" through a beeline and then aggressive trading for the bypassed techs. The lead was short-lived -- many cities didn't have librariers or banks, let alone universities, but getting to the "Industrial Corridor" was a big boost in spirits as my previous experience indicates (again unfortunately) that it should be tough to lose with infantry in place.

Catt

[DaveMcW]

After my peace treaty expired I helped the Germans and their new English allies clean up the Persians. With just five size 2 towns left, Xerxes offered me 61 gold per turn in the peace treaty! Apparently he had bankrupted France, Bablyon, and Zululand in ongoing tech deals.

I immediately paid 51 gpt for gunpowder, knowing Persia would not be able to pay that tribute for long. (Despite my reputation I was allowed to pay per turn until I closed the diplomacy screen!) I traded gunpowder to France, Babylon, Zululand for chivalry, theology, education; and now the only tech I can buy from the leaders is Astronomy. I will ambush the misplaced german army when the last Persian city falls, and do it with equal tech too!

[Catt]

RL is keeping me from much gaming. I have recently launched an invasion against Babylon, taking, razing, and rebuilding cities with ivory and dyes on the northeast and northwest arms of the Bab's main continent.

Shortly before, the treacherous Babs had eliminated their long-standing trading partners, the Zulu.

Turns are taking a long time for me -- not due to AI lag time, but simply because I am making a lot of decisions and moves each turn. I am also prolonging the game needlessly, but in the interests of fun . I was the only civ with tanks for about 10 turns (allowing me to crank out 25 or so) but instead of a tank rush, I bided my time, building city infrastructure, waiting for an AI offensive (didn't happen) and looking forward to a Modern Armor rush a la SVC (just for fun). Finally decided I had to move on the Bab's luxuries simply because their superior infrastructure and control of the whole continent made the risk of a culture or SS victory too high.

I have debts to pay Hammy and Bismark, and my markers are coming due soon. My German border is a massive maginot line with infantry in forts on all the high ground.

I am not so certain about the increased AI mining now -- I need to go back and check earlier saves. I am beginning to suspect that the AI choice to mine in my (standard) game may have had more to do with the limited water supplies and inability to irrigate in many places prior to Electricty.

I have had the distinct pleasure of killing three separate AI leaders in this game.

Catt

@DaveMcW - sounds to me like you're kicking a$$ and taking names in your game - tech parity at Astronomy is pretty impressive

[BillChin]

This AU 107 is a real ballbuster. On Emperor, it seems harder than AU 106 was on Deity (which I did not finish, but was competitive). I finally start a game with a successful invasion of Persia. Then the Germans decide to make lunch out of me. I am playing standard rules, Emperor difficulty.

My hat is off to all those able to complete AU 107, especially on Emperor or above. I give. I've "learned" enough from this setup after about eight starts. I'll go back to random maps on Deity and see if I can learn how to win on that level (something I have not done yet).
- Bill

[Theseus]

Hey, Bill, take a break from it, but watch for my AAR (as I sloooowly get to it... very tight on time), and then please consider one more college-try.

The short version:

I re-started after a disastrous mistake as to early strategy. For some bizarre reason, I focused on the isolation, and decided to play builder *smacks forehead*, and beelined for Republic while waiting to be found (and what did we learn in AU 106?). Uhhh, hello Theseus, anyone in there??!! I still feel like a dope for my misguided first effort.

Rome: LEGIONS, militaristic, and commercial. As in, beeline for Mapmaking (find the AI civs, duh, and cheap harbors for a food-starved island), Iron Working (what was I thinking the first time ), and Monarchy (only one lux... can we say MPs?), followed by Currency (again, harbors thus gold, and one of the key levers has to be money and low corruption). Repeat: I still feel like a dope for my misguided first effort.

The re-start: Warriors and Settlers and Workers and lions and tigers and bears, oh my. I'm up to the 1200s AD, and am within striking distance of tech parity (maybe 5 techs). Persia is an OCC (but with over 1000 gold, yum yum), I've almost taken the NW Bab peninsula, and I am about to undergo the best AI attack I've ever seen, at the hands of Germany with mostly Cavs and some Knights. I'm going to bed to let my subconscious struggle with what to do (you'll all love the screenshots when I post them). Ave Caesar, ave, morituri te salutant!

Legions are awesome... I think we all under-credit how powerful a 3 defense can be, even standing up to attacking Cavs, if handled properly (i.e., hills, mountains, rivers, walls, etc.). They are also great GL-hunters... I have the Heroic Epic and five 2x Legion Armies that have been critical to my success / survival thus far. And conversely, a 3 or 4 attack (i.e., Legions and Knights) can accomplish more than you might think, given sufficient numbers of units. I've taken a number of towns / cities, even on hills, with either Legions attacking Musketmen or Knights attacking Riflemen.

Germany is awesome, btw, and Babylon is pretty impressive too. Re the AU Mod, I've noticed that even on 'good' land, the AI civs are mining more, althought they do the opposite of what we do, irrigating non-shielded grassland and mining shielded.

It's been a REALLY cool game (once I had put my damn head back on!), but I've only had chances to play the second time around in short increments, and I haven;t had the time to do a proper journal / report / screenshots (I'm with Catt... my turns take a long time, as I feel every decision is effing CRITICAL... "OK, built a Legion in Rome; homeland defense? MP duty? Babylon? Persia? Hmmm... if it goes to Persia, what does that mean for the limited Galley fleet? Who needs to be where when? Jesus!!).

I'll go back through it over the weekend, however, to highlight some of the best sequences.

[Catt]

Hey! I popped into Poly at the right time - people are still playing Son of SVC.

BillChin- it is an enormous ball-breaker. I came under a forceful German attack of cavalry against my Legions. An immediate alliance with France siphoned off some of the German offensive, but I was still losing 1.5 to 2 units for every German unit I took. France made peace with Germany (saving what was left of my reputation) only a turn or two before I would have been forced to. I felt happy and lucky to have survivied with my "Persian" Roman empire essentially intact.

By the late game, I started getting a bit complacent -- didn't launch a tank attack against German infantry and cavalry - figured I would wait until Modern Armor just for fun. Finally (just a half hour ago) goaded Germany into a war, discovered that they had already built 5 nukes and 4 (+2 in progress) spaceship parts. Now I have to take Berlin and hope to avoid being nuked (I haven't discovered Space Flight yet). Germany is a monster, a true "Killer AI" and Babs is not too far behind although I crippled Hammy by seizing some luxuries. In my period of complacency I was using armies (from the MA) to rush airports or marketplaces in new cities in Babylon -- consequently my attacks against Germany were largely through individual MA against MI fortified in metros. Been a while since I played a good modern era war, and crap! does it show. Bismarck has between 4 and 6 MIs guarding his core cities, and it is taking me 12 - 15 MAs to take a city. My slowly stockpiled force of 80+ MAs on the continent was reduced to about 15 after my first-turn assaults, but if I didn't take my initial objectives, the war would have been put in jeopardy.

Theseus - I agree re: Legions. For whatever reason, the random civ generator hasn't blessed me with Rome all that often. Legions are awfully powerful. On offense they compare to Knights, and on defense, with the proper terrain and tactics, took me right up to riflemen (almost infantry). One big mistake I made, and I chalk it up to inexperience with Rome, is that I built almost exclusively Legions -- even though I knew they were a dead end unit, I figured throughout that I would have time to build an "infantry" unit that I could upgrade through the ages at some point of peace in the game. The SVC start meant I was way behind in infrastructure, and I never really found the time to build an "infantry" force. With the German cavalry invasion, I was forced to defend with a few musketmen, a bunch of Legions, and eventually to research Nationalism instead of Steam Power and then to build a number of riflemen from scratch - I had so few units available for upgrade. Lesson learned.

Also,

Originally posted by Theseus
. . . my turns take a long time, as I feel every decision is effing CRITICAL... "OK, built a Legion in Rome; homeland defense? MP duty? Babylon? Persia? Hmmm... if it goes to Persia, what does that mean for the limited Galley fleet? Who needs to be where when? Jesus!!

Exactly. It's been a long time since I spent so much effort focused on wartime logistics -- but being shorthanded and underpowered stresses the importance of having the right assets in the right place at the right time. Even though the turns are taking a long time, I am having a lot of fun and being rewarded with an "edge of my seat" feeling everytime I tap the spacebar for the "end of turn" command and wait to see the AI's next move.

I will eventually post screenshots with an AAR, but I want to finish the game first - hopefully before I go away for a 3-day weekend Saturday morning PST.

Catt

[Theseus]

Still up (deal memo)...

The build choices certainly have contributed to the "every turn is a nail biter" effect... I thankfully built some defensive units along the way, but not nearly enough. Doesn't it suck when you've got a limited defensive force (in my case thus far it's been Muskets), and yeah, they absorb the attack, but DIE, and then you frantically scan around for reinforcements and there are none at hand?! AAAARRRGGHH!! Another reason to love Legions... with a surfeit, I don;t mind sacrificing them to get through a tough spot (again, screenshots to come).

I'm not surprised that Germany keeps on being so threatening... not that your preview in any way was a spoiler, believe me, after gaining control of the NW Bab peninsula (and setting up the equivalent of the 49th Parallel, Subic Bay, and Guantanomo on the forest chokeoint!!), my biggest priority is striking into the heart of Germany. Depending on my defense from the current attack (Catt, sounds like you got the same thing... it flashed in my mind that this is what an Arrian attack would look like), and also depending on the next few hundred years, I might go for a massive Cav rush.... no chances, no fear, no worries, like 40-50 Thundering Herd... and Bizzie-Marckie can eat trail-puckies.

My meta-game plan is to somehow get Germany and Bablyon to burn themselves on each other... given that thus far it's been me at war with each, I don;t know how to get there.

More to come re alliances, trading, embargoes, and whatnot. Toughest game I've played in a while, probably since the Egyptian Mess. FUNFUNFUN!

[DaveMcW]

660 - The last Persian city on the continent is taken by the Germans.

760 - Rome and England declare war on Germany. It is knights vs. musketmen, a brutal war of attrition that slows the research of the three biggest continental powers to a standstill. Babylon is the only one left, and is soon so far ahead that no one can afford their newest techs.

1050 - The Babylonians' demand is refused and they declare war. Rome ignores them for the rest of the game, easily crushing their four attempts to land on the lightly defended ancestral Roman island. They finally fall into communism after getting so far ahead in tech that it doesn't matter.

1160 - The first German cavalry is sighted.

1270 - The Roman knights finally sieze the last German saltpeter mine and quickly sue for peace, getting the Militarty Tradition tech branch at a discount price. The Germans will never build cavalry again.

1300 - The Russians declare war on Rome, but with an increase in Elizabeth's resource bribes the invaders never make it through English territory.

1320 - Babylon declares war on Zululand

1370 - The German peace treaty is not renewed, and Roman Elites begin training on German longbowmen. The Babylonians have long ago claimed the Great Wonders, but small wonders and Cavalry armies are better than nothing.

1420 - The last German city on the continent is taken by the Romans. Bismark grudginly agrees to part with nationalism for 700 gold (the other AIs charge thousands). The English are upgraded from ally to MPP.

1430 - The French have fallen so behind in the tech race that they can't afford Nationalism. The Roman Cavalry quickly begin dismantling the Musketeer defenses.

1465 - After siezing their 5th luxury, incense, the Romans switch to Republic.

1495 - The French have been defeated. Babylon takes the last Zulu city on their continent

1545 - The Romans declare war on everyone who is left.

1585 - The entire main continent has been cleared. The Romans buy Steam Power from a dying England, then backstab Lizzie and finish the job. Ships are rush-built to finish off the island holdouts, and Settlers travel by rail to fill in the large burnt spots on the map.

1640 - Domination Victory


France had a terrible start position, even worse than Rome. Their mass mining never paid off because the cities never grew past size 6.

Even though I avoided the Babylonian continent, after-game research showed they did not have Replaceable Parts so my Cavalry hordes would still have easily won an invasion. It was interesting to see how the killer Babylonian AI slowed to a halt as the economy of their vassal civs was destroyed. Tech parity by destruction beats parity by trade, at least on an 8-civ map.

Maybe I'll restart and try the peaceful builder Tank/MA strat on Emperor, to take a break from all that unit movement every turn. But somehow that seems tougher than a warmonger on Diety...

[DaveMcW]

The Saltpeter Assault Squad gets a nasty surprise...

[DaveMcW]

The German war opened with a ying-yang shaped offensive as both sides tried to attach each others' weak points.

With only a single Musketman in Virconium, the Romans rushed city walls and sent in unupgraded horsemen hoping that the Germans couldn't kill them all in one turn.

But after seeing seeing the Musketman+Fortified+Walls+GreatWall combo win six straight rounds against its buddies, the wounded Knight army wisely retreated.

[DaveMcW]

Berlin culture flipped three times before I could build up 10 culture in the city. But it was all worth it in the end...

[Catt]

@DaveMcW - excellent campaign - domination in 1640 AD

I'm still not convinced that I have this game beat, but we will see. My MA aassault on Germany resulted in me taking 5 core German cities -- the first 3 each had 23 resistors! I had stockpiled 9 settlers, and at the end of the turn, went back, sold all the improvements from the German cities, positioned my settlers, abandoned the German cities and rebuilt Roman cities. The assualt isolated a German outpost to the north, secured wines for the Romans, and put Roman armor within striking distance of both Berlin and some gem mines. Babylon had thoughtfully declared war on Germany 5 turns before my goading resulted in a German declaration, and even though many German border forces pulled awaty to deal with invading Babylonians, I still struggled against MIs fortified in metros. I destroyed 2 ICBMs in my initial assault.

Then Bismarck pulled out his big guns, and two of my largest cities in old Persia were nuked. Suprisingly, France, a longtime peaceful partner, did not immediately declare war on Germany (as I expected in case of a nuclear attack). My assault paused for breath and to heal, and then took Germany's gems and began the bombardment of Berlin. Berlin contained the Pyramids, Sun Tzus and Copernicus, and I did not want to abandon it so I needed to bring it down from its 25 pop to about 6 - 8, and then rush and disband settlers -- even if it flipped once or twice, I figured once I got it down to 1 or 2 German citizens, I could take and hold it. Successive bombardments reduced the pop to 16, and then Hammurabi helpfully nuked Berlin (I still haven't researched or traded for Space Flight let alone the nuclear techs). I took Berlin the next turn, and am rushing my first settler to bring it from size 7 to 5. One or two more rushed settlers and it will be mine.

The German spaceship was destroyed, but I now see that Babylon is building its first 4 parts. I will need to destroy the last of German core cities and then get forces over to Babylon for some fun and games (I am now researching Nuclear Power with one scientist, and expect WW to eventually force me into a Monarchy, but I hope to extort Space Flight from Germany in a peace treaty, and then be in a position to trade Nuclear Power to Hammy for Satellites and/or Superconductor just before my forces march on Babylon. Fun game, but defintiely a ball-breaker and definitley a long time commitment.

Catt