Spoiler Thread for AU 203

BRC · January 3, 2003, 18:53

Post your AU 203: The Power of Communism stories and spoilers here.

Bluefrog · January 3, 2003, 23:24

D'oh! Sucks to be Rome. Did you mean to give them such a crappy start?

Or was it meant to see how the AI would react to starting in a desert? If so, it doesn't appear to have done so well.

BRC · January 4, 2003, 01:06

Quote:

D'oh! Sucks to be Rome. Did you mean to give them such a crappy start?

Oh no! Not Rome!!

I'm kidding. They were placed there on purpose, and they are serving it.

P.S. Your picture does not show.

Bluefrog · January 4, 2003, 01:37

Hm. Apparently this page (like many others) doesn't cache geocities pics correctly. The url is http://www.geocities.com/robdalajara/rome.jpg

EntroPi · January 4, 2003, 01:58

Hmm... I think a solution is to rename the file extension to .txt. This works on other forums... so it should work here too.

Action · January 4, 2003, 03:06

Since you can't fight the AI you need to lock down enough territory to grow in.

Luckily this map is well suited to do so. Use chokepoints.

EDIT: yeah I know i need to finish off the chokepoints, but you get my drift.

ZargonX · January 4, 2003, 05:23

Started up the game tonight, and had a most interesting thing happen that I haven't seen before. China was being overtly aggressive (moving units into my territory, etc.), when they demanded tribute of 30 gold and a ter. map. I handed over the items, at which point Mao thanked me. Not 2 seconds after the diplomacy window closed, China declared war on me by attacking one of my cities. Has this ever happened to anyone else?

jshelr · January 4, 2003, 08:42

I really like the idea for this game.

Not being able to attack calls for a complete rethink of strategy. Germany played this game in the AU mod on Emperor.

I’m open to discussion for sure, but it seemed best to try for high culture, despite being a nonreligious civ, and to finagle to get the Great Library. Bismark managed to reach those two goals and to place cities out as far as the gem lux mountains to the Southwest and just short of the big bed of furs to the Southeast. You can see these positions on the screenshots posted above.

We are cheerfully paying all extortion demands and giving some gifts from time to time while enjoying the respect that comes with having the highest culture reading.

Somewhat on the risky side, we are going to minimize military and go for an extreme builder strategy hoping to be ready to out research everyone on discovery of education. We will try to pick up a happiness wonder along the way.

Thanks for setting up a fun idea. This was the best approach I've seen yet to yanking us out of the early rush strategy.

jshelr · January 4, 2003, 08:48

The chokepoint strat below the fur bed is an interesting idea. If you can pull it off without Russia eventually attacking, it will be great. Play nice with Russia however you can. As you point out, you need a city on that site asap. Fair warning: someone can galley around you and grab the furs and it could be soon. The upside is that the furs closer to the capital are not going to be worth much for trading if you don't also own this big bed. Good luck.

As for being attacked after paying, that is odd. I don't recall that happening to me.

BRC · January 4, 2003, 09:30

Quote:

The chokepoint strat below the fur bed is an interesting idea.

I tried to give you guys a little help with luxuries. If you can expand to the furs and gems, they will definitely help you out. Was anyone not able to expand to there, or were they able to expand further?

jshelr · January 4, 2003, 09:44

I was busy with the GL and fell short of the furs which did not look as high priority as the tech since there are furs close to home. Getting to the gem mountains will not be difficult for everybody. The furs decision may reflect my normal tendency not to worry about fringe lux since the human player normally gets them via conquest in time for overseas trade. Not so in this game.

ducki · January 4, 2003, 10:40

I got a settler down by the SW furs, so that chokepoint is taken care of.

I got confused playing Germany and didn't bother with tech-trades as early as I should have.

I've got the SW chokepoint and cities placed vertically from the capitol to the southern sea.

Making nothing but settlers and spearmen from Berlin after the granary(goodie I think, or Russia trade) and barracks was built and just trying to claim as much land as possible.

Hopefully I can push hard enough on the AI to get to fight a few wars without falling behind tech-wise, after the expansion is over.

This is fun!

jshelr · January 4, 2003, 11:25

bug report: I was unable to build FP in some of my cities (not due to FP being underway elsewhere). This cleared up after 20 turns or so. Any ideas what was going on.

Strat did not work well. AI research was relatively brisk. After GL went obsolete, I was not ready to compete for tech yet. So, we are grubbing along buying tech until the pop is built up some more.

trickey · January 4, 2003, 11:43

EDIT: Damn, how do i attach a picture, it always says it is too big.

Bluefrog · January 4, 2003, 12:56

Well, the game is going well (Monarch), but is nearing critical mass...and I'm not near Communism yet.

I was able to pop a settler from my first goodie hut (heck, I only had 2 or 3 huts total) and get things rolling. I was able to expand to those choke points listed above...a little more south on the eastern side of things, actually. I gambled big, forsaking all other techs for Literature. I avoided nearly all tech trades, building up my cash and hoping beyond hope to nab the GLib. Gambit paid off, and it netted me 11 techs the first turn, knocking me to the next era.

Anywho, it seems that there have been two Killer AIs spawned from this game, and I'm in the middle. Wars broke out around me, and due to my central location, I had foreign troops marching over my soil quite often. The English were the first to dieby the Chinese. Russia fell under the might of Xerxes. Rome, who had been hanging on to its only city the whole game (it really would have been nice to see the AI move its initial settler to frtile ground), bought into a military alliance it shouldn't have, and was summarily squashed byt he Persians.

The Aztecs, surprisingly, haven't been part of any wars, and are hopelessly behind in techs. We recently came into contact with the Babs, and while healthy, they aren't near the threat to me as the growing Persians and Chinese are. For a while, they were at war with each other, but due to the long stretch of my land they had to cross, no real damages were taken on either side. I was able to claim some of the land left by Russia, though.

Now, the tech push is coming, and I'm not sure how I'm going to fare. I've managed to avoid war so far, but with these two aggressive civs on each side, I'm not sure how much longer. Might be time to musketize those chokepoints, as it were, heh.

I'm having a ton of fun with this!

trickey · January 4, 2003, 14:08

It is 150 B.C the German republic has just been set up.

Funny, in Bluefrog's game, England was destroyed by China, in my game, England was destroyed by Rome. I guess nobody likes old Lizzy anymore

I'm playing on Monarch, and i am the largest civ in terms of cities. China is a close second.

I am ahead of everyone in techs, except Persia, I am even with them. At the start of the game, i was running 10% science. It surprised me how good it worked. I bought 5 techs for ~250 gold. That catapulted me to the front of the tech race. Ever since I was running 90-100% science. I decided to head for Republic asap, not touching the lower branch of teh tree, not even going for currency.

It worked out great, got republic (do the AI civs ever value that tech) and traded it for 3 techs (currency, construction, and another one, forget it now) to China. Then I traded republic to Xerses for Monarchy and 10 gold.

I got quite a scare from Rome when they declared war on me while I was still in major REX mode. They came into my territory with about 3 spearmen and 2-3 archers. Were they ever a pain. I killed all Rome's units but one spear, and did that spearman ever act strange. First it started making its way to my source of Horses. Good move right? I thought so too. But once it got there, it just sat there for a few turns instead of pillaging. Then it made it's way to my furs, only to sit there for a few turns aswell. After that, i made peace with Rome, forcing him to give me 20 gold for peace, even though I didn't have its territory map, had a smaller army than him, and hadn't attacked one of his cities yet.

Btw, i think i made my switch to Republic too early. I was loosing 1gpt running 90% science in despotism. Now, im struggling to break even running 10% science as a republic

ducki · January 4, 2003, 16:50

It's your military upkeep that's killing your treasury, most likely. If you don't need them all, try disbanding some to get it under control.

Or found more cities.

BRC · January 4, 2003, 17:23

Quote:

Anywho, it seems that there have been two Killer AIs spawned from this game, and I'm in the middle. Wars broke out around me, and due to my central location, I had foreign troops marching over my soil quite often. The English were the first to dieby the Chinese. Russia fell under the might of Xerxes. Rome, who had been hanging on to its only city the whole game (it really would have been nice to see the AI move its initial settler to frtile ground), bought into a military alliance it shouldn't have, and was summarily squashed byt he Persians.

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can anyone else tell me if they have had similiar experiences?

trickey · January 4, 2003, 17:27

China and Persia are the top civs besides me in my game (China may even be ahead of me).

ducki, Your right, im gonna have to start disbanding some units. I've got plenty of cities

ducki · January 4, 2003, 17:54

China is going to be very hard to catch in my game.

It's only 610BC, but they are consistently 1 tech ahead of everyone else and 4 techs ahead of me, keeping everyone poor.

Nor Me · January 4, 2003, 18:31

I won't say much about my game; not much has happened in it.

One thing I did do differently is build the Pyramids instead of the GL. This is the first time I've even considered doing this on Emperor but it makes too much sense from this start (lots of space and luxuries.)
I don't know why alexman might have thought a reduction in corruption in Despotism would have a small effect. I know in this game we need a decent Communism but I'm sure that some will find it unbalancing.
In this case it meant that I was able to build the FP just as fast mainly in despotism as I would have had switching to Republic earlier. Even if I'd had the GL I would not have been in Republic early enough for buying a courthouse to help. In despotism, I was able to do things like pop-rush a library in every city that couldn't build one. When I did switch, the gain was surprisingly small. I'd expect that in more warmongering games even Monarchy might not be worth it.
This basically meant that my considerable tech lag caused few problems. Now it looks as though I'll be able to discover Education and have my FP up by the time the other civs have Education. The cities around my FP all have libraries and are size 6 in well developed land.
It looks as though the Pyramids was a better choice than the GL. Of course it doesn't go obsolete yet. I suspect that an AU communism might bear some resemblance to pre-patch despotism.
etc.( Y'know all that is just so clear. oh well.)

Of course China are the most dangerous civ. They've reduced the Aztecs to one inaccessible city. Killer status may not be far away.

Nor Me · January 4, 2003, 20:22

Did I say the Chinese were dangerous? Thanks to the silly rules we're playing with I'll have to wait for a flip or hope that another AI razes my former cities so I can replace them.
Adequate defences? Are there any against riders and cavalry? I thought I had enough but a stack of units with defence 3 can easily be overcome even on a hill.
They also seemed to have gome most of the way to MT before discovering Education. Looks like I should have gone with the GL after all.

Bluefrog · January 4, 2003, 20:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Nor Me
They also seemed to have gome most of the way to MT before discovering Education. Looks like I should have gone with the GL after all.

The same happened with me, except I had the GLib built instead of the Pyraminds. China and Persia, the tech leaders at the time, went pretty far toward MT before going after the more scientific branch of the tech tree.

Nor Me · January 5, 2003, 09:19

Noone has Banking. I reloaded the autosave to check that China didn't (I know this is minor cheating but how exactly will knowing the Chinese didn't have banking be a game winning advantage?)
According to my understanding of alexman's formula, this is impossible. Monotheism,Theology,Education and Banking should all be researched before Chemistry which is more expensive and allows nothing. What is going on?

trickey · January 5, 2003, 10:15

well, after realizing republic wasnt gonna wokr for me, i did something i normally would never do. I made another revolution happen. Republic->Monarchy. Monarchy is much better for me in this situation.

I just nabbed Sun Tzu's (mostly just to keep the AI from getting it.) It will also help with upgrading.

Nor Me · January 5, 2003, 11:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Bluefrog
The same happened with me, except I had the GLib built instead of the Pyraminds. China and Persia, the tech leaders at the time, went pretty far toward MT before going after the more scientific branch of the tech tree.

Exactly how far?
The Great Library is in Tenochtitlan (which the Chinese have captured.) This may be the reason why they researched Chemistry before Education. If this theory is correct, you won't have got Chemistry from the GL. This may have to be tested. EDIT: They have the Oracle too.

So the Chinese have virtually eliminated the civ on a peninsula behind them, captured the GL, beelined to MT and blitzed me with riders and cavalry. I'm fairly sure this sort of thing didn't used to happpen.
The few small tweaks of PTW,v1.14 and AU MOD don't make empreror as hard as deity in Civ3 v1.29f but it's nice to lose, if you are going to lose, to an AI that behaves sensibly rather than relying on 20 swordsmen SODs.

jshelr · January 5, 2003, 11:07

The Persians and Chinese are the big civs in my version of this game. We have been pumping up the Babs research effort by funneling all our research gold through them. So, we are behind only the Chinese.

Persia declared war as we exited the middle ages. We bought an alliance with Russia which basically sacrificed them. We then arranged rights of passage and then mutual protection pacts with China and England. (Recall Persia has the fur bed in the SE in this game.) We bought our way out of the middle ages, received nationalism free, and put a scientist on Communism. Bought steam, started prebuild, and will wait for medicine and electricity.

Let them tear each other up for awhile.

ducki · January 5, 2003, 11:26

Persia and China are strong here, too.
I wonder how much their starting terrain influenced this, or perhaps their traits (both Industrious).

I am 2 turns away from Completing either the Pyramids or the GLib, and can't decide which to do. I think probably the Library, since I can't keep up in research yet and I've just about expanded to the geographical limit, so I don't really need granaries everywhere any more.

Decisions, decisions.

Oh! And England has just demanded Literature. I'm debating telling her to stuff it and hoping for a war, even though I'm not prepared.
Decisions, decisions.

This is a really fun scenario. Not warring at all, even for an ex-builder, is pretty tough. Especially as Germany.

Jawa Jocky · January 5, 2003, 11:33

I'm playing the AUmod on Monarchy since I've never; played the mod, used communism, or been a very good builder.

Here is the only hut I got to pop. Having expansionist neighbors really makes you realize how good that trait is at the start.

Jawa Jocky · January 5, 2003, 11:42

Persia and China are both killer AIs here too. Here I am trying to protect my lead on the GL, otherwise I have given into their demands everytime. I brought the Aztecs and English into the war (China brought Rome into it and the eliminated Liz) and got peace on the turn my alliances had expired. Which was good since China had 10 units 2 turns from my border.