AU207: Big Planet - Strategy, Spoilers and Comments

Dominae · March 19, 2003, 16:00

This is the spoiler thread for AU207: Big Planet.

Until most people are well along in their games, please preface any possible spoiler information with warnings like:

***Potential Spoiler***

And try not to forget to include interesting screenshots with your comments!

Have fun everyone.

CerberusIV · March 19, 2003, 18:04

An interesting start! I could not get on with AU206 but I like this one.

I got lucky and after a map from the first goody hut got a settler from the second

What does strike me is the need to scout potential city locations. I chose to play as the French and haven't done badly with my warriors but an expansionist civ would do better. Getting a city offset by a tile or two can mean missing a useful resource.

So far it looks like this

Dominae · March 19, 2003, 18:46

Cerberus, may I suggest you Irrigate the Cattle Plains instead of Mining it? Under Despotism, you get no benefit from Mining such a tile, since it produces 2 Shields already, and you lose 1 Shield when the tile produces 3 or more. I know its kind of weird to want to Irrigate more Bonus Food since you've got a lot of Flood Plains around your capital, but other cities could benefit from an that Cow too.

Other than that, looks like you're doing fine (going for Culture, I see!).

Dominae

Konquest02 · March 19, 2003, 19:47

Dom, I think you're evil... You allowed Egypt as a potential civ choice, yet their war chariot can't reach anyone because of the impassable mountains for wheeled units. Sure, it may be used as a cheap horseman upgrade, but you pretty much nailed their coffin there... By chance they have good traits...

That said, I chose France, but I hesitated for either Russia (exp.) or Spain (challenge). I chose the french over the Carthaginians because of the timing of their GA, which is non-despotic and will probably be of better use for me...

I've played until 370BC and I hate respawning civs... More to come later, probably screenshots!

--Kon--

Dominae · March 19, 2003, 21:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Konquest02
Dom, I think you're evil... You allowed Egypt as a potential civ choice, yet their war chariot can't reach anyone because of the impassable mountains for wheeled units.

I know at least a couple of people that will be angry with me because of this, but this was too good an opportunity for me to dethrone Egypt as "the best civ of all time" (general consensus in these threads). In my defense, the map randomly generated the War Chariot-impassable chokepoints, and I considered not including them in the list of playable civs. When I saw that the start location geography made historical sense for Egypt, I almost laughed myself silly and just had to include it!

In spite than the War Chariot problem, Egypt should do fine compared to the other civs.

Dominae

nbarclay · March 19, 2003, 22:32

And who chose to put the player in this particular starting position on the map? It looks like I have my work cut out for me to see what I can do with Egypt in spite of your scheming.

badams52 · March 19, 2003, 22:52

Looks like this one is shaping up great! I'll look forward to all of your AARs

BigDork · March 19, 2003, 22:54

Hi everybody...

I have yet to download because I'm currently at work but I think my choice to be the Spanish may have been a good one. If there are as many mountains as I think there may be my UU may be helpful. More so than those war chariots

BigD

Dominae · March 19, 2003, 23:06

Quote:

Originally posted by nbarclay
And who chose to put the player in this particular starting position on the map? It looks like I have my work cut out for me to see what I can do with Egypt in spite of your scheming.

Sorry! In all truth, I did not notice that Egypt's could not go very far until well after I had picked the map and chosen the start location. When the time came to select civs, well, the fiendish opportunity was just too good to pass up.

Anyone notice the Easter Egg yet (just one, I tried to leave the map as unchanged as possible)?!

Dominae

ZargonX · March 20, 2003, 02:59

Whoo! This is one crazy map! Chokepoints galore! Went in as Carthage, and have been off to a pretty good start so far. First hut popped barbs, so that was bad news, but fortunately we escaped with only a small monetary loss. Things picked up after that, quickly founding two cities and making contact with the Babs and the Zulu. Pinning the Babs in their little corner became top priority, and a brief campaign with archers succeeded in doing just that. Knocked down to two cities, the Babs were pretty much helpless while I hooked up an iron colony directly to their north. A few rounds later, and Ur and Babylon are mine, though the Babs live on with a city founded waaaaaaaaay to the west (I have no clue how they go there...). Also managed to wage the whole campaign without mercs, thus avoiding triggering my GA too early. Furthermore, got a GL out of the deal and rushed the GLib, quickly giving me a tech advantage. The only downside to the war was the loss of my newest city to the north to a squad of 3 bowmen that must have been wandering in the mountains for ages. A small price to pay. Pics when I get the chance, and more reports!

Arrian · March 20, 2003, 11:03

I like the map. Yeah, that's right, I'm playing. Monarch, 1.14 PTW.

Our start position is pretty nice (the core region is solid) but as you all have noticed, there are some nasty mountains & jungle to deal with.

Never fear! Egypt's industrious workers will handle that!

I'm up to 900BC. I started with a pottery beeline & built a granary in Thebes. I built south first to cut off Babylon (prevented them from getting that southern iron source, even). I then built north and west. I have 10 cities, I think. I've secured spices up in the NW jungle near Germany, and another city is next to the NW chokepoint (positioned to get both whales). I have not yet managed a road connection, but I'm working on it.

I have contact with Babylon, Germany, Zululand, America, Japan, and the Mongols (I think, memory is a little hazy on that).

I have reached a crucial decision-making point in the game. Currently, I am lagging in tech (despite being ahead until quite recently), and am 2 turns away from the Colossus. I could, however, choose to use that city for the Great Library instead. Given the map settings, I think I'm going to switch. I'll have to use the Pyramids (or a palace) as a placeholder for now, since I've just begun research on Lit. The city, btw, is west of Thebes on the coast, with 5x bonus grass & a game tile available. Nice place.

The Egyptian military is ramping up. I have several barracks built, and have just started pumping out veteran warriors for swordsman upgrade. The plan for now is to hit Babylon. They are small and weak, and are building the Pyramids. They may or may not actually build them. But what if somebody

loses a battle to a bowman? And then proceeds to take Babylon?

Meanwhile, I will do a large WC buildup while continuing to settle the NW jungle areas and connect up my road net... all the way to Germany. I probably can't hit them with WCs before they get pikemen (unless I manage to deny them iron somehow), but I will have credible mobile defense and then I'll shoot for Leo's & a huge upgrade to Knights.

That's the current plan, anyway

-Arrian

minke19104 · March 20, 2003, 11:44

Wassup with the Spanish on the other continent??

They have managed to snatch almost every ancient wonders....

I cleared out the Babylonians, and have managed to block out checkpoints to my "island". Divide & Conquer tactics have been workin pretty well.. Everybody in my continent is fighting each other.. While I REX..

I've made a grave mistake though.. Used Mercs to attack Bab, and gotten a very "unhappy" Despotic GA. I thought I can use the extra production to build Great Lib only to be out produced by 5 turns by the Japs!!

BTW, Carthage rules!! I will post some screenshots when I get home. I haven't played Industrious for quite a while, but their increased workers mean faster road building in preparation for attack.. I keep making roads straight into enemy cities during my invasions to further accelerate mobility.

(Playing Monarch, Carthage, PTW 1.14)

Nor Me · March 20, 2003, 17:18

I notice in the Cossacks thread that some don't like Russia's traits. However I'm sure that in this game I'll be better off than if I'd chosen the Egyptians.

So I'm playing the Russians on Emperor with AU MOD and PTW v1.14.

There was a debate in the other thread about whether to move the Settler. My answer is a 3950BC screenshot:

minke19104 · March 20, 2003, 17:29

Can you get a settler if you disband the hut by culture?

Arrian · March 20, 2003, 17:30

You lucky S.O.B.

Nah, seriously, good move. I'd still rather have the Egyptian traits, though.

-Arrian

Arrian · March 20, 2003, 17:30

minke,

Yes, you can. I've done it in other games.

-Arrian

minke19104 · March 20, 2003, 17:34

2 Granary river cities would prolly out-REX any other AI there.. nice..

Konquest02 · March 20, 2003, 17:47

I think you can get a settler when you pop a hut by culture, but not when you're founding a new city, as you settler founding this city is still active when you pop the hut.

This is why I moved before founding my city, but got barbs instead of a settler...

In fact, I think I popped 5 or 6 huts with barbs (I lost the count after 3 in a row...

)

Still, my game is going pretty well, as the Babylonians have built the Colossus two turns before I take Babylon with my swordmen... Talk about timing!!

--Kon--

Arrian · March 20, 2003, 17:54

You will never get barbs from a hut you pop by building your city in 4000bc. At least I've never seen it, and I've done it a lot.

I got 25 gold from that hut. In fact, that's what I got from most of the huts I popped. Several 25 golds, warrior code, and a few barbs.

-Arrian

Nor Me · March 20, 2003, 18:03

A couple of turns later, my scout got Warrior Code. I recalled a debate from another thread about the possibilities of archer rushes on a huge map. If I'd actually met the Babylonians at that stage, they might not have held out that long but as it was, I set Moscow building a Granary as usual.

When I found out that they were much closer than anyone else, I canged my mind and that granary became a barracks

.

on a side note, I've been practicing archer rushes as the Germans, Romans and mil/rel civs on standard maps recently and I've not been able to get them right. From certain positions they're effective but the trouble is that you need to know which direction to send the archers in fast. It's just too risky. If you pick the wrong civ and are unlucky, you are simply in trouble. Without an archer rush, I'm left with no early advantage from my traits. I might actually have to seek all your help on that.

On the other hand, I can archer rush with all expansionist civs, although the ones that are militaristic as well are obviously the best by some way. Expansionistic civs can judge the situation faster, get all the required tech and don't have to build as many (if any) settlers.

Anyway, enough of that rubbish, back to the game. The latter proved decisive. As well as my 3950BC settler, I got another far to the NW. Although it was too far away to contribute production, it meant I didn't have to pay upkeep for my units for longer.

The Babylonians sent out their offensive units too early normally a human rather than an AI weakness. While a couple of archers took out their warriors in the open, a regular archer, a scout and a consript warrior were able to capture a couple of workers and pillage the improvements around Babylon. I lost the consript to counter attack

.

Emperor, Bowmen and the consequent GA slowed things down a bit but in the end the AI cannot cope with a player who builds no settlers. They had several bowmen wondering around but a spearman on a mountain will usually be untroubled allowing me to go straight for their cities. OK I lost a few units; as you can see I had to take Ur with a spearman but I expected more resistance.

It's 1675BC and the Babylonians have respawned (giving me the usual couple of slaves and 100 gold). I have 7 cities even though I've only built 1 settler. I also have the usual expansionist tech lead. With plenty of room to expand into, I don't see this game as being too hard. Oh well...

Nor Me · March 20, 2003, 18:25

Quote:

Originally posted by minke19104
2 Granary river cities would prolly out-REX any other AI there.. nice..

But nowhere on the river has both food and production without a lot of improvement and I'm not industrious.

Quote:

Originally posted by Konquest02
This is why I moved before founding my city, but got barbs instead of a settler...

In fact, I think I popped 5 or 6 huts with barbs (I lost the count after 3 in a row...

)

2 settlers, an advanced tribe (whatever they're called), 5 techs and a conscript warrior in a useful position just south of Babylon

.

Quote:

Still, my game is going pretty well, as the Babylonians have built the Colossus two turns before I take Babylon with my swordmen... Talk about timing!!

On the other hand.

Arrian · March 20, 2003, 19:28

Some screenies:

Arrian · March 20, 2003, 19:30

The frontier...

Konquest02 · March 20, 2003, 19:52

Dom: Can you tell on what the barbs are set? I think I have quite a lot in my game (not only in goody huts...)

I'm mad at the Mongols, they built the GL 2 turns before me... I'm left with few choices:
1- Build FP (187 shields lost)
2- Build Colosseum (277 shields lost)
3- Build Harbor or Library (307 shields lost)

I could build the Great Wall, but it would trigger an unwanted GA since I have captured the Colossus. This city is located at the NE (keypad 9) of Arrian's Heliopolis. I think this is a bad spot for the FP.

What should I do...?

--Kon--

Dominae · March 20, 2003, 19:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Konquest02
Dom: Can you tell on what the barbs are set? I think I have quite a lot in my game (not only in goody huts...)

SPOILER WARNING!

Barbs are set on Roaming. I believe it feels like there is a lot of them because there is a lot of land mass.

Quote:

I'm mad at the Mongols, they built the GL 2 turns before me... I'm left with few choices:
1- Build FP (187 shields lost)
2- Build Colosseum (277 shields lost)
3- Build Harbor or Library (307 shields lost)

Option 4: "You want a piece of me?!?!" Use the Shields to build a very expensive military unit, that will spearhead an attack on the evil Mongols.

Dominae

Konquest02 · March 20, 2003, 20:20

lol... I can do option 4 without wasting those shields... I am in fact currently thinking of a plan to kill that lousy mongol leader... what's his name again...?

Nor Me · March 20, 2003, 21:09

Arrian, are those screenshots from 900BC?

I'd be impressed if you did manage to attack the Germans with WCs through that jungle.
Don't you risk them expanding into the jungle but being slow to connect up their cities?
Or maybe they could hold up your army by pillaging outside cities you've just captured.

In my game, the Babylonians have moved into that jungle . I can't see all the map but it looks as though it might be possible to attack the Germans from the SE navally. At any rate, some galleys taken through the W chockepoint around to the Zulu's west coast would be useful attacking north at least until rail because of the weird geography. If I'm lucky, I'll aim to settle any unclaimed jungle there to aid this.

Arrian · March 20, 2003, 22:43

The frontier, 520AD:

Arrian · March 20, 2003, 22:50

Nor Me,

Yeah, those shots were from 900BC. The above shot is from 520AD. See Buto? It has ~35 War Chariots in it, plus some horsemen, swordsmen, 2 elite warriors, and some spearmen.

El-Amarna has a few more WC's, and there are a smattering of WC's & Horsemen en route to Buto.

Most of the civs on the continent have hit the middle ages. Germany has not. Besides, I'm waiting for Knights at this point.

I have built the Great Library, captured the Oracle (Babylon failed me... I shoulda hit them earlier and lost to a bowman like I said I was gonna... damn), built the Hanging Gardens, and am poised to snag Sun Tzu & Leos within 2 turns of each other. No one has Monotheism yet, but I'll have it first, in 2 turns.

I'm roughly halfway through my GA (triggered by the HG, since I had possession of the Oracle).

Babylon is toast, I wiped them out. Since then, not a shot has been fired on the continent.

Things have been far too peaceful. Sssssoooon, my ppppreciousssssss. Soon we shall have 75 Knights. And then they will pay. Nasty, tricksey, false AI!

-Arrian the mad

BigDork · March 20, 2003, 23:03

Hi everybody...

Well I have the next three days off from work so I hope to get some play time in. I'm really looking forward to giving this a try.

BigD