AU209 DAR3: Able to build Forbidden Palace

[Dominae]

Use this space to comment on your game in the interval between the end of DAR2 and time at which you can finally begin construction of the Forbidden Palace (you must have Masonry and, I believe, 8 cities to do this on this map).

[PeaSoup]

1300BC
Ottomans declared war on Carthage!
Because of Ottoman's better terrain, they should have a larger force than Carthage, but those Numidian Mercs are tough nuts to crack. Hopefully they'll cripple each other. I will have to send my lone scout to watch the action.

1275BC
Japan signed a MA with Carthage against Ottomans! This will be interesting.

England builds the Great Lighthouse, looks like Lizzie is going to be a world super power.

1050BC
My scout at the Ottoman border reports that no cities have exchanged hands or have been razed. The Ottomans have also entered the medieval age.

Ottomans send a spearman and settler pair to their doom right outside Carthage border, gotta wonder what the AI was thinking.

Decided that it's time to buy some techs from Ottomans and sell to Japan and Carthage.

Traded my world map to all 3 civs and got a net of +14 gold.

Ottomans:
got Philosophy for 10gpt and 159 gold

Carthage:
got Mansonry, 1gpt and 20 gold for Philosophy

Japan:
got Horseback Riding for Philosophy and 3 gold

950BC
Just saw my easiest chance to get horses snatch up by the Ottomans, of course the Ottomans were the first to discover the northern horse island, this will limit my offensive to only swordmen.

Built my 8th city, and therefore allowed to build a FP. I'm boxed in by Carthage, and because of the war going on, I'll need to take advantage of the situation and strike soon. However, I hardly have enough forces and looks like I'm a good 40 turns away from having any sizeable force. The war might be over by then..

Mountains are making it difficult to connect the cities together, and lack of good terrain is going to slow down production. I forsee difficult times for the Russian people ahead....

[Panzer32]

Just an update for my game:

I'm currently in 975bc and I have 8 cities. I was quite fortunate to spring St Petersburg from a goody hut quite early.

Basically I'm making warriors right now anticipating a swordsman upgrade to take Carthage. I know this will not be easy though

You will notice I have boxed Carthage in with Sevastapol and Odessa. I don't want them encroaching on my peninsula.

[Theseus]

[DOH! Reading PeaSoup's DAR, I remember that in the AU Mod we changed the number of cities for the FP!!]

1750 BC:

Founded my first new city, St. Pete, at 114 of Moscosw.

1675 BC:

Friggin' Hannibal extorts 31g from me.

A quick bump to 80% research gets me Math. Everybody but Japan has it, and I trade for HBR, bringing me to parity.

On to currency, at 10%.

1500 BC:

Ottomans and Japan establish embassies with me, and I do so with Carthage.

1475 BC:

Build Kiev on the hill 2211 from Moscow, 9 of the wheat. Set to barracks.

1450 BC:

Change St. Pete to from temple to granary, as London builds Colossus.

1150 BC:

Ottomans try to blackmail me, but they are too far, and I call their bluff.

875 BC:

Istanbul builds the Pyramids.

710 BC:

Kyoto builds the GLib, London the GLight.

Up to 5 cities, with both Moscow and St. Pete as Worker / Settler pumps.

Carthage is an animal, with 8+ cities.

670 BC:

I finish currency. I am 5 techs behind, but I have 644g.

I buy:
Mysticism from Japan for WM, 35g, and 1gpt.
Code of Laws from Japan for 115g and 4gpt.
Map Making from Ottomans for WM, 180g, and 5gpt.
Literature from Ottomans for 50g and 4gpt.

Now only behind by construction, which is too expensive.

Reseach philosophy at 6.4.0, balanced budget, 15 turn rate, 264g remaining.

650 BC:

Increase to 3.7.0, -8gpt, 7 turns remaining.

550 BC:

Researched philosophy. DAMN! The AI civs must have just gotten it. Screw this, I'm gonna draft instead.

50 BC:

Drafted research of republic. A little poprushing, then the revolt.

130 AD:

Everyone but me is building Sun Tzu... and I've still got 8 turns to go on construction.

280 AD:

Ottomans building Leo. 6 turns to go on polytheism. Revolt,

340 AD:

Republic, polytheism in 7 turns. Ottomans blackmail, I refuse, they declare war.

I buy polytheism from Japan for 100g and 5gpt.

Feudalism for free.

Researching monotheism at 7.3.0, 7gpt, 30 turns.

Time to connect the iron, I'd say.

I ally with Carthage against the Ottomans for WM, 225g, adn 18gpt.

370 AD:

AWESOME!!! Carthage enlists Japan against Ottomans!

I join in, allying with Japan as well for 20g and 10gpt.

480 AD:

Istanbul builds Leo's.

490 AD:

Ottomans drop one solo Longbow... on desert, the friggin' idiots. An MI enters my first combat of the game, and takes him out.

560 AD:

Carthage renews the alliance for 12gpt. I also buy the remainder of monotheism for 25gpt.

Japan goes to peace with the Ottomans. I buy theology for 30gpt and 195g.

Researching education at 9.1.0, with only measly 1gpt.

590 AD:

Went to 10.0.0, using scientists.

630 AD:

Japan declares war on Carthage... this is getting interesting!

650 AD:

The English (who?) have been destroyed.

760 AD:

I re-up the alliance with Carthage for 8gpt.

I buy the remainder of education from Japan for 15g and 35gpt.

Japan is leading Carthage in tech, and has taken two of her cities.

I keep doing these gpt deals to keep them off my back. I am finally starting to feel OK, having gotten a Pike Maginot Line across my southern border on hills and mountains, being almost there in terms of forting it, manning all of my vulnerable coastal hills and mountains with left-over reg Warriors, having gotten semi-respectable force of 15 vet MI going, and having gotten the basics built in the few cities I have.

Do I dare dream? 40 MIs and some supporting Pikes?

800 AD:

Meet the Babs and French. Babs are friggin' scary, with 4 of the 9 GWs built to date.

810 AD:

Things are interesting. Japan had successfully captured a north-south axis of Carthage's cities, cutting off two of her western cities.

I buy the remainder of engineering from Carthage for 21gpt... I would normally have done so from France, with only two cities, but I have decided to support Carthage for the moment (until I can attack her, that is).

I defend against two vet Ottoman Knights with a vet MI loss, a vet MI win, and a Pike win.

820 AD:

Meet Germany.

830 AD:

The Germans destroy the French.

880 AD:

Invention from Carthage for 190g and 15gpt.

960 AD:

Wines and Spices from Japan for 19gpt. Why the heck didn't I do this before?

980 AD:

I have decided to backstab Carthage. I will be breaking an alliance to do so, so I also will buy techs from Germany (who is NOT building Magellan currently) for gpt, and break those deals too. Makes me feel kinda dirty, but I have no choice.

I buy the remainder of gunpowder for 28 gpt and banking for 34 gpt.

I invade Carthage capturing 2 Workers, tasking 8 MI and a Pike for hill approach to a hill city defended by a Musket, and 5 MI and a Pike for a mountian approach to a grassland city defended by a NM, and declare on Germany.

990 AD:

I friggin' forgot I'm playing the AU Mod! Carthage had a Longbow (zero bombard) in the first city I attack. Dope.

1130 AD:

I am now able to build the FP.

Things are very tight... I've destroyed 3 Carthaginian cities, and rebuilt with tighter spacing and 2 out of 3 cities on hills (one to be built next turn).

Carthage is getting ripped to shreds. I am at war with them, the Ottomans, and Germany.

Don't have to worry about triggering my GA with GWs... I have none. I am about 8+ techs behind, but no one has left the Middle Ages yet, nor have I seen Cavs. Germany just got Economics and must have traded it around, as the research cost dropped to nothing.

My obvious game plan is to gain control of the rest of the eastern land mass, and then fight off the Ottomans and Japan at the bottleneck until I have sufficient force to take them down (Rifles?).

[Theseus]

HOLY CR*P!!!

The Ottomon Sipahis just started showing up... I've never played them or played against them... 8.3.3!!!

How the f*ck am I supposed to fight that?

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Theseus
How the f*ck am I supposed to fight that?

Enlist Japan?!

I've never fought against those dudes either...

I think you're looking pretty good, Theseus, considering the difficulty of the scenario. You just need to get to Replaceable Parts to "seal up the game".


Dominae

[Theseus]

HUZZAH!!

The Japanese didn't have economics!! That, WM, and 4gpt get them into an alliance versus the Ottomans!!

[badams52]

Originally posted by Theseus
How the f*ck am I supposed to fight that?

Similar to defending againt immortals, attack first.

[TheArsenal]

I will post the game details a bit later (a day or so) when I can shove RL to the side.

I am currently what you would call between a rock and a hard place. I have played out a fair amount of the game and dug myself in a bit of a hole, but not an insurmountable one, if played more intelligently than has been up to this point. Looking at the game over all, my approach on how to handle my neighbors was basically flawed. So while I was able to take out the Carths to consolidate land, and I currently stand with a fairly solid army and somewhere around 18 cities (no notes here), I am behind in techs and have left both Japan and the Ottomans in a strong position without having yet gone to war with their UUs, meaning the Ottoman and (possibly) Japan have golden ages yet to spring on me at the onset of the inevitable war. It’s an odd position to be in, because in any other game with access to UU and a golden age, I would be just fine.

To do again, and I may after this, I would pick wars based on not on proximity to my borders – after all it’s a tiny landmass - but in reverse order of UU appearance, diminishing or eliminating the UUs chance to do real damage. So perhaps the Ottomans, the Japanese, and then the Carths. The problem with that strategy was it took a great deal of time to overcome the starting position and get any production up and running. It was a while before I had any number of units at all while the other civs were moving along and producing quite fine.

In any case, moving forward, my strategy is to play builder peacemaker until possibly as far off as Replaceable Parts, when I can overcome the disadvantage of not having a cavalry equivalent UU and continue with my goal of clearing my continent.

[TheArsenal]

Added thought:

Thinking over this post after I left it, it may not be such that I am in a poor position over all toward winning (that has yet to be seen) but unaccustomed to not being in a better position at this point in the game. When I am behind very early on, it doesn’t concern me because a strong come back is near certain. It will be interesting to be forced employ more sophisticated later-game strategies than the overwhelming force I use from the sheer number of production centers I usually have by now.

No one warned me trying to become a better player was actually going to take some work.

[Tall Stranger]

Funny you should mention the possibility of fighting them in reverse order, The Arsenal, since I set out to do just that.

At the end of my last report (I'm pretty far past that point now), I was trying to decide between war with Carthage and war with the Ottomans. My decision was to go after Ottomans, so I began building galleys to ferry my troops across. I had even found a spot of no-man's land between Carthagian territory and Ottoman territory where I could station my troops before a multipronged attack. My thought was to mass troops there, and carry more on galleys to land on a costal mountaintop on the first turn of the war.

Thus resolved, I began to build galleys. Literally two turns after building my third galley, Japan goes to war with Carthage, thus changing everything. I had counted on a bit more time to build up my pathetic mil before war. Now, I figured that, by the time I had built, massed and choreographed forces for an Ottoman war, Carthage's GA would be pretty well over. About ten turns into their war, and with a war cry of "Carthago delenda est," I went to war with my buddy Hannibal, and quickly seized the town of Leptis Minor, making my FP available.

Overall notes: production was still a problem, though got somewhat better. I was fortunate that none of my jungle cities was hit with disease. Still reliant on tech purchasing, now mainly from Ottomans, since my relations with Japan weren't great. Not what I wanted to do (strengthening Osman now only hurts me later), but no realistic alternative, as Japan was only barely ahead of me in tech.

[Rhothaerill]

Continued on from DAR2. I’m playing emperor level. I should also mention that I originally started this before the version with the AU mod was uploaded.

1625bc:
A traveller from far across the deep blue sea has informed us of the completion of a wondrous statue known as The Colossus in the lands of the English. Who are the English? Has this traveller told them of the powerful nation of Russia?

The first great wonder is completed. I’m not too impressed since I don’t plan to build too many wonders, if any.

1525bc:
Hannibal of the Carthaginians calls on us. And what does he want? Talk? No, never. Arrogant leader that he is he demands tribute. The Russians are tempted to tell him to stick it where the sun don’t shine, but wiser heads prevail and the gold is transferred.

Hannibal demands 44 gold. I have the cash, and I’d like to tell him no, but I’m not ready to get embroiled in a war quite yet. My revised plan for conquest involves building a small horde of warrior and then plopping a city down on the iron (not the best idea in retrospect, but I wanted to have access to the fish tile). A mass upgrade will give me my swordsman force that I want. It is during this time that I start to do a lot of micromanagement of the citizens between Moscow, St Petersburg, and eventually Smolensk south of Moscow. With the moderately bad land area I have, every tile is precious at this time so almost every turn I start checking which configuration will provide me the ten shields for a warrior without any waste. If it looks like shields will be wasted then I switch one of my shield production tiles to a flood plains tile to get more growth out of that particular turn. I’m usually not a huge fan of citizen/tile management, but it’s a definite necessity on emperor level with a start like this one.

From now on I’m going to stop with the italicized “story” stuff. These DARs will be long enough without them.

1450bc:
Kiev founded on the coast northeast of Moscow. During the warrior buildup I also spent some time building settlers in my two flood plains towns when their populations got too high. I didn’t want either city to rise too high in population yet as I wouldn’t have the ability to restrain the unhappiness inherent in the high populations. Fast city growth made me decide completely against building granaries in the two cities. Neither of them needed it for the way I was using them.

1425bc:
Japan decides to bully me around and demands 44 gold. I decided to give in because I still wasn’t ready to face any concerted attack. I always hate giving in to demands, but you have to look at the bigger picture of what you want to accomplish. In this case, giving in was the best course of action.

1250bc:
The Germans complete the Oracle…and disaster strikes for the first time. Disease hits St. Petersburg, costing it two population points. It hurts, but it’s not a gamebreaker. With the flood plains my population rose quickly again. A few days ago I posted in a thread in the general forum about the good things a flood plains tile outweighing the possibility of disease. Glad I didn’t have to eat my words.

1125bc:
I have a few veteran warriors ready to go by now, and a good amount of gold to upgrade most of them, but I want a more overwhelming force. On emperor level you generally have to face more AI units and I wanted an overwhelming force to be able to take a city in one turn and then rest in that city before moving on. As I said above I settled a new city (Minsk) on the iron tile and deliberately didn’t connect the city with roads. This is contrary to what I usually do (and should have done) which is settle next to the iron and deliberately not road the iron. It only caused a little headache later on, but it could have caused a larger one. Also around this time I discovered that everyone but me had discovered map making so I decided to buy everyone’s territory maps for gold. I figured it would be worth it for the little gold spent. Right after this was when I discovered that I did indeed know all the civs on the continent and could have written DAR2 a while back.

950bc:
The Ottomans finally decide to get in on the action and demand 150 gold and my territory map. My warrior build-up is approaching the level I want so this time I feel ready to take them on if they attack. Plus they were quite a ways away from me so I knew I had some time before any concerted attack would happen. So I thumbed my nose at them and they declare war. Naturally. In the meantime a wonder cascade occurs as the Ottomans build the Pyramids and the English build the Great Lighthouse. Yikes. The other continent must be a ways ahead of me too. I haven’t been able to wangle any tech deals since the big one after contact with the Ottomans. I admit to not really trying too hard though. My intention behind a swordsman build-up is to start taking on the Carthaginians and their bullying ways. With luck I could take a few cities and sue for peace and techs to bring me back up to parity. I never really had any thoughts toward bypassing them and taking on the Ottomans, mainly because I was still a ways from map making at the time.

825bc:
Smolensk built south of Moscow. I knew this city wouldn’t grow too large for a while because of all the mountains around it. There were some good grassland tiles and I occasionally switched in a few turns on the flood plains tile, but the primary reason I settled this city was for happiness relief. The diamonds would provide the same effect as an extra warrior in each town and that was well worth it for freeing up warriors for the coming war.

More to come in one post. This DAR was too long to fit in only one post.

[Rhothaerill]

775bc:
A tech deal. Finally. I finished up research on polytheism and fell into some luck as only the Ottomans had it and hadn’t traded it yet. I was able to trade polytheism, my world map, and 3 gold to Carthage for writing and mathematics, and followed that up with a trade of polytheism and 25 gold to the Japanese for map making. I was still a few techs behind, but not as far behind now. And when the eventual war and then peace with Carthage came about I’d be able to get better techs than writing and math from them. All in all researching polytheism was a boon. It’s not a tech the AI heads after quickly so it’s occasionally good trade bait. One of the well-known habits of good tech traders is to pursue techs the AI’s don’t. To that end I started researching literature with as much gold as I could spare. Not only is it a tech the AI doesn’t actively pursue, it will also give me the ability to build cheap libraries for a future scientific strategy and to get some culture going.

710bc:
My fledgling army is to a good point so I finally connect the iron and immediately upgrade 14 warriors to swordsman. Not the largest force ever assembled, but the best I could do with the resources I had at hand. And more than adequate for the limited war I had in mind. The next turn my new swordsman force starts their long march south.

670bc:
Odessa founded. It’s fairly close to my core cities so it won’t have too much corruption. Unfortunately it will have to share some of the good shielded grassland tiles with Smolensk, but this is the best site for my sixth city.

650bc:
D’oh! I forgot to disconnect the road to the iron city so that I could start amassing more warriors for upgrade. Luckily I discovered my mistake before wasting any shields. This is where I would have run into a small problem with having my city on top of the iron if the city had been a larger city. To disconnect the iron I had to disconnect the city from the luxury network. Minsk was small so it wasn’t affected, but it could have been. It would have been much easier if I hadn’t settled on the iron, though I wouldn’t have had the benefit of the fish tile. I also started building my first few galleys around this time. I had another idea in mind.

530bc:
My long march south to Carthaginian lands is almost complete. I split my force in two to take care of a few roving barbarians on the way. I was hoping for some elite promotions, but didn’t receive any. At the very edge of Carthage lands I declared war on them. Most civ players know this, but for anyone who doesn’t you will take a reputation hit if you declare war while any of your units are in enemy territory before you declare. It’s not a big deal, but it’s something that you might want to keep in mind to avoid the possible problems with a bad reputation (civs refusing to trade with you, etc.). I still hadn’t seen any Ottoman forces so I wasn’t too worried about being at war with two civs. Two turns later I took the city of Hippo with no losses of my swordsman force. There was only one Numidian Mercenary in the city. Hippo had culture so it didn’t autoraze which was one of the reasons I took it instead of bypassing it. Looking into the future a bit, Hippo would be a great place for a forbidden palace if I could get some cities down there. Not only is it a ways away from my current palace (though not too far), but it is fairly centrally located for the eastern portion of the continent. The same turn I took Hippo I finished researching literature, but I could only trade with the Japanese and discovered they already had it. I decided to start researching monarchy at 40 turns, both for the war government, and the 40 turn rate for gold.

490bc:
The Japanese finish the Great Wall. I wasn’t planning on attacking them anytime soon anyway. But it does tell me that I’m definitely several techs behind.

430bc:
My swordsman juggernaut continues, though I split my forces slightly. After Hippo I started the bulk of my force toward Leptis Magna figuring to cut off the southern Carthaginian cities and keep them from reinforcing those cities. My sword force took Leptis Magna with only one loss, despite the fact they had a few more Numidians inside then Hippo did. I also sent a few swords southeast toward Hadrumetum to keep them from sneaking up on me from behind. I had hoped the city would gain some culture soon, but it wasn’t to be. It was at this time that I could have stopped the DAR and took a screenshot, but I didn’t realize it until a few turns later.

390bc:
Hadrumetum is destroyed and I decide to regroup my forces. The Carthaginians had sent several swords down toward Leptis Magna from Carthage and I didn’t feel like fighting them just yet. The whole intention behind my war was a quick strike war to take some cities and deal a middling blow to the Carths while gaining some tech in the peace deal. And that is just what happened. Carthage is more than happy to have peace and gives me currency, philosophy, code of laws, their territory map, and 12 gold to get me off their back. I quickly found out the reason Carthage didn’t put up much of a fight with me. Apparently they were also at war with the Ottomans while at war with me. Thanks Ottos, but I have a very special present for you.

270bc:
During the time my swordsman force was descending on and wreaking havoc in the lands of the Carthaginians I set about building more warriors and then reconnecting them for an upgrade to swordsman. I had also built two galleys and decided it was time to take the fight to the Ottomans. I had still never seen an Ottoman unit close to me, thanks to the war with Carthage. Looking over into their lands I notice a couple of nice cities on the eastern coast of the peninsula that looked very ripe for the picking. But of course there was more to it than that. Unless I wanted to be stuck with slow moving units forever I’d need to secure some horses and start building up a force of horseman for eventual upgrade to knights. Ankara was just the ticket. I landed a force of four swordsman on the hills next to Salonika and by the end of the next turn I had destroyed Salonika and was marching on Ankara hoping it would increase population before I got there. My galleys returned to my core for reinforcements, and it was only then I realized I had the ability to build the forbidden palace. Oops, oh well. I didn’t go too far past the time for the end of DAR3.

More to come later…DAR4 will take a while to write as I didn’t actually contact the other continent for another 14 centuries and quite a bit happened in that time

[Mountain Sage]

DAR 3: 1600 – FP

In the year 1450 BC we bought Iron Working for writing and 15 gold. We immediately told our northern Worker to stop its roading. Oh, we created embassies with the Carts and Otto.
In 1325 Germany built the Pyramids. Fine.
We traded Polytheism as follows:
Japs Map Making and + Mathematics + 29 gold;
Carts World map + 40 gold;
Otto World Map + 1 gold (lousy people..).
We started to research Philosophy in 13 turns. Embassy with the Japs established.
Not much happened until 1100 BC, when our 3rd (!) city, Kiev was founded. A Sumerian barbarian camp would shortly be raided.
The English just finished the Oracle. Fine.
975 BC: we traded Philosophy with the Japs for World Map + 80 gold and with the Otto for World Map and 34 gold. We had tech parity and 311 gold!!!
Our scientist started on Construction (38 turns).
690 BC: we build Smolensk, our 4th city.
The Germans finished the Great Library. Fine.
In 530 we founded Odessa (6th), the last of our south cities. Another week of public mourning.
In 510 BC we founded Sevastopol (7th!), right on our only Iron resource. Catherine suddenly became very interested in bright, shiny iron swords…
England finished the Great Wall. Fine.
Finally, in 350 AD, Tbilisi, our 8th city was founded. The path to the FP was open to us…
The Otto and Carts had Monarchy (useless to us) and Currency, while we were researching the Republic (24 turn to go). And we had 382 gold.

MS notes:
Another bunch of very frustrating years. Erin either had 8 shields and 0 growth, or growth in 7 turns and 4 shields. Besides Erin, all other cities had no improvements!!! I was starting to think you should go back and lay at Warlord level…
But then, I had now 8 Workers with a few more to come. At least I would be able to use all the tiles. And I had my Iron (no Horses, of course). Time to prepare an early Swordsmen rush?

The situation in 290 BC

[Mountain Sage]

War is about to start...

[Thrar]

This one is rather short, only 8 turns. The next one will probably be much longer.

1225BC: road to the Gems is finished, no happiness problems in the near future i hope

1075BC: founded the 8th and last city before the war against Carth, which enables me to build the FP. I switched from barracks to temple in the fast-growing cities Moscow and St.Petersburg. If Odessa (see below) finishes its temple before Hippo does, the cultural borders will expand, and Hippo will be the one with borders right next to it. That way, all i need is a road, and i can take Hippo in the same turn as i declare war.
Polytheism in 4 turns, everyone else has discovered Mathematics now. Once I've hooked up iron, i may trade it away to the Ottomans for 20 turns, for a warrior->sword upgrade. War preparations will take some time, but since it doesn't matter if i face pikes or numidian mercs, i don't have to hurry.
On my hitlist are Carthage, Utica (near the spices) and everything east of them, FP will be built in Carthage.

Here is the map: