AUSG101 - Domination team DAR 1

Rhothaerill · September 12, 2003, 00:18

This is the DAR (“during action report”) thread for the first turn block of 40 turns (4000bc – 2150bc) for the domination/conquest team. Please post your DAR of the first 40 turns, including thoughts of why you did what you did in the game, along with a screenshot at 2150bc and a savegame at 2150bc. Please name your save with your nickname, team name, and the time (i.e. rhoth-domination-2150bc).

Current voting:

Master Zen: 3
Theseus: 2

Total votes cast so far: 5 of 6

Master Zen · September 12, 2003, 05:24

yay, I'm the first!

EDIT: I had originally posted 30 turns. I have now added the next 10 so as to have everyone with 40. All files updated.

In the next post I have attached the turn-by-turn DAR. But since turn DARs are boring, I'm just going to make a summary here and whoever wants to read the DAR can just download the .txt file.

First of all, my immediate reaction to being an expansionist civ is: explore, explore, explore! Thus, the first unit I decided to build was another scout. With my 2 scouts, I pretty much managed to explore all of what appears to be our continent by the 30th turn. Now, the starting position is an excellent settler pump but also has good production power. Thus, irrigating the cows would net Mecca a surlpus of 4. However, I only irrigated one cow and left the 2nd cow only with a road at first, this was to even out production/food in Mecca so as to waste either (see? warmongers can micromanage too!). Priority was given to getting a granary, once the granary was built I irrigated the second cow which evens out the city for settler production.

Just before the round ended, I built my the 2nd City, Medina at 6-3 from the starting spot. It will be used as a military camp and has a huge production advantage, with 3 bonus grasses and a game tile in its immediate radius. it has begun with barracks and will begin cranking elite units as soon as that's done.

Exploration-wise I came upon 4 huts during the turn. Two of these were empty (first and last) but the other two got me Mysticism and a free warrior for even more exploring. I encountered the Japanese to my NW, and the Americans to the NE. I traded techs with them and got some extra cash which helped me maintain science at 100% despite having more than 4 units. Technology-wise we are 2 techs ahead of the other 3 civs.(and none have IW).

Militarily wise, I have 3 archers (reg), 2 warriors (reg, con), and 2 scouts. There's a granary in Mecca, and Barracks in Medina.

Civ data:

GNP: 14 million
Manuf: 13
Techs: 9 (all 1st tier, IW and Mysticism).

Cities: 3

Mecca (3): 7 spt, +4 food. Spearman in 3 turns, growth in 3
Medina (2): 4 spt, +2 food. Archer in 5, growth in 7
Damascus (1): 2 spt, +2 food. Worker in 5, growth in 5

50g, -2gpt. Writing in 13 turns.

Master Zen · September 12, 2003, 05:36

Here's the turn-by-turn DAR:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Mas...terZenDAR1.txt

Here's a pic of our empire on 2150 BC (40 turns)

I have made the two camp cities very close as they don't require great sizes nor any improvements other than barracks. All the remaining "core" cities would be built using 4-tile, with the next two cities grabbing the flood plains near Medina (a 2nd settler pump) and the other getting the lux below. The settler which has just been built would be on its way immediately and the next city would be built in 3 turns. Mecca currently makes a settler and an archer/spear every 7 turns (the archer/spear in 3 turns when it's in size 3 and then a settler in 4 turns when in size 4. Mecca never drops to less than size 3 and there is no food or shields wasted)

Taian · September 12, 2003, 08:01

4000BC - Starting position looks decent. Mecca is founded. First technology to research is The Wheel for 2 reasons. First, the AI rarely researches it early on in the first flight. Second, it's on the path to horsemen, which can be upgraded to Ansar Warriors and ties in nicely to the domination/conquest goal. Researching at 100%. We look to be in the relative center of the map, so the explorer will go inland (= left) to see if we can't meet some other civs. I'm planning to use the worker to irrigate and road the Cattle tiles by the river.

3950BC - Moving the explorer revealed huts to the direct south. Tipping them yields a deserted village. The game on the forest to the north looks like a good second city site (eventually), so the explorer heads north to check out the lay of the land near it.

3800BC - Warrior produced by Mecca. Construction starts on a Granary. For the time being, the warrior heads south and east to explore the immediate area around Mecca. He'll head back later to garrison the city. Last turn, the explorer ended on a mountain to the north, and revealed huts in the vicinity. Tipping them now yields Bronze Working.

3550BC - The warrior revealed a hut to the south of Mecca. Tipping it yields Warrior Code; an extraordinary stroke of luck. That means that once the Wheel is researched (now 12 turns away), Horseback Riding is within reach. It has also been my experience that the AI is willing to trade significantly for these techs, depending on when contact is achieved. Here's hoping...

3450BC - The explorer has been meandering around north and west of Mecca. Ending last turn on a mountain revealed a hut that will be tipped this turn. As well, a Japanese warrior has appeared within range as well. Time for our first contact! It appears the Japanese already have knowlegdge of the Wheel...what a kick in the teeth, we're only 8 turns away. However, I have Bronze, Pottery and Warrior Code, that they don't. Tokugawa is willing to trade the Wheel and 10 gold for Bronze Working, which I accept. Makes Horsies come that much sooner, which will eventually mean the death of Tokugawa...mwahahaha

Research is begun on horseback riding which will be complete in 23 turns. Tipping the hut yields Masonry. 3 techs from 4 huts seems like a good stroke of luck. I love expansionist...

3300BC - Mecca hits size 3 just as the warrior makes his way back. Granary construction will be complete in 3 turns, which means the settler pump can start, especially given the surrounding land (ie 2 cattle...even if they are on plains...). As well, the explorer to the northwest discovers the Japanese homeland. Special note is taken for future conquest. The terrain in between Mecca and Kyoto looks prime for a horseman brigade later on.

3200BC - Both cattle are now irrigated and have received roads. I'm earmarking a second city site one tile northeast of the game near Mecca. In preparation, I'll start the road out there.

3150BC - Granary is completed in Mecca; 2 turns to size 4 and 5 turns to build a settler. Settler pump can now begin.

3100BC - After discovering the Japanese homeland, I backtracked a bit to start heading straight north of Mecca. Last turn, an American scout appeared. Contact revealed that I held the advantage in tech with The wheel and warrior code. Doublechecking with Tokugawa, it appears that he knows the wheel and warrior code now. Since he'll likely be contacting America soon (if he hasn't already), I elect to trade Warrior Code to America for 10 gold. Only 11 turns left to Horseback Riding. Moved the explorer onto a mountain for a better look and revealed a hut just beside it. Tipping will occur next turn.

3050BC - I could tip the hut now, but since I'm building a settler in Mecca at the moment, I'll temporarily switch build to something else while I tip the hut to increase the likelihood of popping a settler. Cross the fingers... Well, no settler, but I did manage to snag the Alphabet. Looks like not researching the first line of techs isn't hindering me too much and it's giving valuable trade fodder. Got to remember to switch Mecca production back to a settler. As well, since Mecca is now size 4, I've got to increase luxuries to 10% to maintain happiness. Still 11 turns to Horseback and losing 1 gc/turn. However, the treasury is at 28 gc at the moment.

2900BC - Mecca builds a settler. Begins construction on another one. The settler heads up to the earmarked site.

2750BC - Medina founded. Warrior construction begun. Horseback Riding in 3 turns.

2670BC - Mecca builds a settler. Earmarked site is the hill directly north of Mecca. Not ideal right away, but a little irrigation and it will be humming. This is more a placement just to expand towards the Japanese and deny them the land between us (even though I'll take it back later...). Sending the warrior out from Mecca to keep an eye on it and be the first garrison unit since after the next settler in Mecca, I'll need to build something else anyway.

2630BC - Horseback Riding researched. Iron Working is started at 16 turns. The Swordsmen and Horsemen should make a nice 1-2 combo.

2550BC - Medina builds a warrior and begins work on a worker. Damascus founded on the hill north of Mecca with warrior garrison.

2470BC - Mecca finishes settler and begins work on a warrior to replace the garrison. Planned site is south of Mecca near the game by the river.

2390BC - Warrior built in Mecca. Starts work on a 2nd since barbs have started to appear around Medina. New warrior is done in 2 turns and Mecca grows in 3, so this latest warrior strikes out to search the terrain near Medina.

2350BC - Medina constructs worker and begins work on barracks. I'll leave Mecca to pump settlers while the surrounding towns will be used to pump military once they get a barracks.

2310BC - Mecca builds a warrior and begins work on a settler. Warrior used as garrison for Mecca. IW is 6 turns away. Baghdad is founded south of Mecca by the game on the river.

2150BC - Mecca builds a warrior and Damascus builds a warrior. Seen 3 warriors near Medina so far so I'll start another warrior up there. Planned site for the settler is southeast near the spices and fish...at the chokepoint. Explorer to the south ran into Carthage. Nothing worth trading with them at the moment. They have 3 cities total.

So, the summary is

4 cities
All the first level techs, plus Horseback. Iron Working is up to get next turn (1 turn away).
A whopping 4 warriors..all regular.
Granary in Mecca.
2 workers.
Contact with Carthage, America and Japan.

Taian · September 12, 2003, 08:05

Here's the screenshot.

Taian · September 12, 2003, 17:08

Shoot...didn't see that it was only supposed to be 30 turns. I'll cut it back once I get home..

Rhothaerill · September 12, 2003, 17:10

No, 40 turns is okay Taian.

I posted in the other thread that I'd prefer to leave it at 40 turns for this turn block because several people had already done it that way. We'll cut it down a bit on the next turn block.

Konquest02 · September 12, 2003, 17:43

I have played most of my part. I'll get my AAR up after I'm done eating...

[Homer's voice]Mmmm... Pizza...[/Homer]

Taian · September 12, 2003, 18:28

Ok...Thanks

Haven't checked yet, but I doubt the autosave from 10 turns ago is around anymore.

Konquest02 · September 12, 2003, 19:16

OK, my turn now...

I founded Mecca, the capital of the Arabic Empire, right where the hand of Allah put us: on the starting position.

Two cattle are more than enough for our diligent workers. Add the river as a bonus and you've got one nice city in the making. I recognized the settler pump potential this city had so I managed to take as much advantage of this...

I first build two more scouts, to help me get all of the goody huts that were within our reach. Also, I would get contact with other civs (if any), giving us some nice trading possibilities.

Hut-wise, we've managed to get Bronze Working, 25 gold, The Wheel, a deserted one, 25 gold again and

Konquest02 · September 12, 2003, 19:27

OK, my turn now...

I founded Mecca, the capital of the Arabic Empire, right where the hand of Allah put us: on the starting position.

Two cattle are more than enough for our diligent workers. Add the river as a bonus and you've got one nice city in the making. I recognized the settler pump potential this city had so I managed to take as much advantage of this...

I first build two more scouts, to help me get all of the goody huts that were within our reach. Also, I would get contact with other civs (if any), giving us some nice trading possibilities.

Hut-wise, we've managed to get Bronze Working, 25 gold, The Wheel, a deserted one, 25 gold again and useless maps. It's pretty good considering that 3 of those huts were really close to the AIs capitals (2 near Washington, 1 near Carthage). It almost feels like stealing what belongs to them...

The people of Mecca finished their granary in 3000BC. This building allowed them to breed like bunnies. I think we should rename this improvement "The Cheap Motel With Porno Movies Where Citizens Breed..." or soemthing along that line. In a couple of turns, the nice people of Mecca were gathered and some of them were sent off to a new city, Medina. Some of them nickname this city the Evil City, because it was founded 666 of our capital...

So this is where we stand now.

The Arabian army is composed of 1 worker (one more coming in 3 turns), 1 scout (the other 2 were killed by barbs), 5 regular warriors and 1 veteran archer.
The Arabian Scientists have all basinc knowledge and know the advanced secret of Mysticism.
The Arabian Civil Engineers have designed a plan in which all of the future cities will form a ring around Medina, allowing a much lower corruption rate. They call this "Ring City Placement".
The Tourist Comitee of Damascus dream of a great Colossus that would bring great revenue to all arabiandom. Those revenues would contribute to scientific research and war effort.

That's about it for the first 40 turns....

Konquest02 · September 12, 2003, 19:29

Here is what our empire looks like in 2150BC.

Konquest02 · September 12, 2003, 19:31

Here are my game notes and the save. Feel free to look at them.

TheArsenal · September 12, 2003, 23:25

4000 B.C. Moved the settler one square south east to settle on the hill for the added defensive bonus. Set worker to irrigation.

3950: Settled the capitol Medina (oddly not auto-named Mecca, perhaps a bug due to my movement before settling), moved my Scout due south and via a hut learn Mysticism! Betting my barbarian problems would not pop up for awhile I began producing second Scout leaving the capitol undefended. Research set to Bronze Working.

3900 – 3750: Scout exploration of the south, and south eastern portion of landmass, discover choke point leading to (I find out later) a southern continent containing Carthage.

3700: Scout 2 produced, and set on a due north course. Medina (capitol) begins production of warrior. Scout 1 pops a map from a hut.

3650 – 3500: Two scouts continue exploration, Warrior completed and set to limited exploration never wandering to far from capitol. Set production to granary.

3450: A settler wishes to join our despotism! Well, who wouldn’t?

3400 – 3350: Exploration continues, Japanese, Americans and Carthage discovered and contacted on same turn. I begin trading back and forth such that I obtain Pottery, Ceremonial Burial and the Wheel, for Masonry, Bronze Working. The Japanese, as usual, were the toughest bargainers, and from this point on remain annoyed.

3300 – 3050: Exploration continues, hut yields Alphabet right under the nose of the Americans outside of Washington’s cultural borders. Damascus settled. Starting to get a pretty good feel for the size and shape of the continent. A larger part of Scout movement now devoted to dodging Barbarians, whose huts seem to be situated in no small numbers.

3000: Granary built, Spearman produced to be followed by Settler. History of the World informs me that our nation size is 4th and declares us “Mediocre”.

2950 – 2150: The continent is mostly known. This portion of the game consists more of sending Scouts into the few dark places where huts may exist and have been overlooked by other civs (I am not hopeful with another expansionist civ on my continent) as well as killing the occasional Barbarian. At this point Baghdad is settled on the horses to the northwest (barely) of the capitol. Current research is set for Iron Working. The Barbs are beginning to get a bit itchy and roam the borders.

TheArsenal · September 12, 2003, 23:27

Summary:
3 cities.
80 Gold in treasury.

Researching: Iron Works 10 turns.

Tech Standing: “We are Advanced!” so I’m told. Bronze Working, Masonry, Alphabet, The Wheel, Warrior Code and Mysticism are known to us. Checks of other civs show Arabia as the tech leader by two techs, except on the Expansion Americans, for which we only have Alphabet over them.

Score: America 110, Arabia 108, Carthage 105, Japan 104.

Advisor Military Rating: Average - 2 Spearman, 1 Warrior, 2 Scouts, 1 Worker

Rhothaerill · September 12, 2003, 23:48

I find it interesting that several of you have been able to pop the huts near the Americans. In my tests that didn't happen.

vmxa1 · September 13, 2003, 00:56

Rhothaerill
I sent my first two scout more less straight towards the top of the map and as it turns out, at the Americans and made 4 scouts. I did not see the US scouts for some time. In fact I got the impression that they did not make a second scout for some time.

Beta · September 13, 2003, 16:02

Abu Bakr-Beta reporting in....

Founded the capitol where the settler started. Worker spent the next while improving the two cow tiles. First scout went north. Started researching Bronze Working.

First scout popped a hut about 6 turns in, and got warrior code.

First build in the city was a bit of a gamble - a scout. (I was ready to switch to warrior if any hostiles showed up.). This scout went east - found the hut fairly close to the capitol, but did not pop it until the warrior was close enough to completion. Got a map of the region.

Built a third scout.

3550 - met American scout - traded Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burial for Masonry and 10 gold.

3500 - got Mysticism from the hut NE of Mecca.

3450 - got 25 gold from another hut.

3350 - got Alphabet from a hut.

3150 - settler built
-got the wheel from a Hut

(Horses in the vicinity

)
-met Carthage - sold pottery for 35 gold.
-met Japan, (last turn actually) and sold them pottery for 10 gold.

2950 Medina founded 9-9-9-9 from Mecca

2670 - ah - I noticed one of the civs in the list has an unusual name. (does Trip live there?)

- didn't note the date - sorry - Damascus founded 6-6-6 from Mecca

2390 - Horses connected to the empire

2230 - our first victory - - warrior vs barb NE of Medina.

2190 - our second victory as the same barb clears out a barb emcampment, nabs the 25 gold, and becomes a vet.

So - at the start the 2150BC turn:

3 cities built. Working on a 4/4.5 RCP that will allow a first ring of 10 cities. (see below)

Mecca - granary in 1 turn
Medina - barracks in 16 (less with city growth)
Damascus - barracks in 11 (less with city growth)

All first tier tech, plus Mysticism, plus 3 turns from completing writing.

Note - I held off on IW hoping one of the neighbours would research it and we could trade for it. No one has completed it yet.

Iron Working can be completed in 14 turns and Math in 9 at current 100% research rate, but I still say we will be able to trade for them shortly)

Closest to us tech wise are the Americans (we are up by Alpha and soon writing), Carthage (wheel and CB), Japan (3 techs).

113 gold in the treasury.

5 warriors, one of which is vet. One of the warriors is parked on the chokepoint to Carthage - effectively sealing them off for the moment and preventing them from contacting the Americans or Japan.

4 scouts:
- one is observing Japan
- one is to the NE keeping an eye on the Americans
- one is past the chokepoint and exploring
- one is to the east and a bit north because he got chased there by a barbarian.

2 workers
- all cities connected; horses connected; selected improvements made.

Beta · September 13, 2003, 16:05

And here is the image:

Beta · September 13, 2003, 16:40

And the save:

Beta · September 13, 2003, 16:57

Taian - awesome start. But why did you settle Medina where you did and not 6-6-6 from Mecca? It would be on the 4/4.5 city ring along with the other two cities you have built.

(Rhoth - is it ok to start chatting about the saves now - or should I be waiting.)

Konquest02 · September 13, 2003, 17:04

Quote:

Originally posted by TheArsenal
Advisor Military Rating: Average - 2 Spearman, 1 Warrior, 2 Scouts, 1 Worker

Errr... I see 3 spearmen in your picture...

Konquest02 · September 13, 2003, 17:34

Beta: We have the exact city placing scheme. It's just that we didn't go in the same order. I wanted to have a city near the ocean quite soon in order to get the Colossus going. But I think your placement is more effective because it allows the workers to stay in the same area while working. It wastes less precious worker turns. But my city plans were on the exact same tiles as you... Nice hut luck too!

Taian: Awesome start. The only criticism is that I think you should have put Medina one tile south of where it's standing right now. That would have allowed one more city on the river. Other than that, great block of turns!

MZ: I never experienced with camps and temporary cities. Oh, once, but the temporary city was my capital in prevision of a palace jump... I hate disbanding cities, but it's just my playstyle...

I can recognize a good warmonger in you. Your army is already imposing and your science is among the best. I think your save would be really nice to play as an archer rush on either America or Carthage...

The Arsenal: I think your cities are too spaced out (for my tastes...). You won't be able to use all of your best tiles in the early game, i.e. your empire won't be as effective. I also don't think you should have moved the settler on the hill for two reasons: 1- You were forced to wait 10 turns (time before your borders expand) to use the two cattles, which were your best tiles around the capital and 2- There is no need for defensive bonus, as our capital probably won't be attacked if we manage to play the game right. I agree that some outlying cities should be on hills, but our capital won't get touched...

Some small mistakes, but nothing major.

--Kon--

Beta · September 13, 2003, 17:51

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Rhothaerill
I sent my first two scout more less straight towards the top of the map and as it turns out, at the Americans and made 4 scouts. I did not see the US scouts for some time. In fact I got the impression that they did not make a second scout for some time.

I used a similar approach - 4 scouts. Felt a bit exposed early on, but it paid off in getting to a lot of huts.

Konquest02 · September 13, 2003, 18:05

I used 3 scouts... It paid a little less hut-wise, but I managed to get the granary completed earlier than you, which allowed a slightly higher growth...

Taian · September 13, 2003, 18:26

Beta - I've never paid much attention to RCP

As well, I wanted to work the game on the river right away rather than having to wait for another expansion. Probably, 1 tile south would have been a better placement though..you're right. Sounds like you and Konquest02 think the same

Really, it seems like everyone was fairly similar. Tech wise, we're all fairly close, just slightly different techs learned, but overall number the same. Where I went for expansion right away, you guys seemed to start building the military up better. No matter which one we take, I think we've got a bunch of solid starts

Beta · September 13, 2003, 19:07

Yup - that is my conclusion as well. We have a number of good choices. And Theseus is yet to play.

TheArsenal · September 13, 2003, 21:16

Quote:

The Arsenal: I think your cities are too spaced out (for my tastes...). You won't be able to use all of your best tiles in the early game, i.e. your empire won't be as effective. I also don't think you should have moved the settler on the hill for two reasons: 1- You were forced to wait 10 turns (time before your borders expand) to use the two cattles, which were your best tiles around the capital and 2- There is no need for defensive bonus, as our capital probably won't be attacked if we manage to play the game right. I agree that some outlying cities should be on hills, but our capital won't get touched...

Some small mistakes, but nothing major.
--Kon--

Kon, thanks. This is the kind of input I am looking for in order to improve my game.

As far as my cities go, they very well could be too spread out. I exclusively play on huge and large maps and find, for various reasons, that spreading the cities a bit more over time produces a better over all outcome. This may not apply here at all.