How much do you use Histograph and Demographics within a game?

Brundlefly · December 8, 2003, 17:00

How much do you use Histograph and Demographics information while you are playing the game? Do they contain any information that is critical to your success?

Personally, I have no use for Demographics screen other than to guess how big other civs are getting based on size of top 5 cities.

I do have a use for the Power graph within Histograph screen. If my Power band is larger than that of another civilization then this is a sign for me to demand tribute from that civ. I think it would be better to see a numerical representation of Power instead of trying to determine the relative size of your stripe.

ormstunga · December 8, 2003, 17:13

yes I agree. Numerical like the "score" would really help.

pauli · December 8, 2003, 17:32

it would be best to have both.

it would also be nice to get rid of the inexplicable military service entry. it doesn't seem to measure anything...

Dis · December 8, 2003, 17:36

I agree about military service. Even when it seems I have the largest military I'm often only #2.

I mainly only use it at the end of the game to take stock of my magnificant civilization. By the end of the game I like to be #1 in productiviy, man. factured goods and GDP. Although I can't rememeber the difference between man. fact goods and GDP

. I also like to be #1 in land area and population. My approval rating usually sucks, so I don't care about that.

asleepathewheel · December 8, 2003, 17:50

the stats are invaluable in a PBEM game, especially the demogames where there are lots of minds to analyze them.

Snotty · December 8, 2003, 17:54

Mfg goods, GNP and productivity are probably the ones I use the most. They are most useful in small games (4-6 players). Its good to keep on eye on who can produce the most shields or commerce so you can change your strategy accordingly. Sometimes you can roughly work out other peoples starting tiles. Family size works pretty much the same early on.

I keep an eye on literacy to make sure no-one is sneakily going for the great library.

Military service can throw up some odd numbers indeed. I use the powergraph to tell my relative power, but also use the military advisor to keep an eye on military might.

Overall this is not game winning information, but in MP you should take every edge you can get.

vmxa1 · December 8, 2003, 17:55

I find them of some value, but would like to see them offerred with numerics as well as graphs.

Kloreep · December 8, 2003, 18:17

I think the reason military service has "odd" figures is its average military service per capita. So while a large army will increase this figure, the large populations human players tend to have drags the figure back down.

Snotty · December 8, 2003, 18:27

The problem with military service is that it is not really relevant to anything. I can only read limited information out of it, but would love to hear of how to get more out of it.

Plotinus · December 8, 2003, 18:30

I think those stats are there largely to add a bit of flavour. I like the idea that even if I have the most whuppin' army out there, my citizens are all spending their time kicking back their heels and relaxing rather than being press-ganged in murky bars. The same with things like average life span, health, and so on. It just gives a bit of a sense of reality.

pauli · December 8, 2003, 19:38

well, the pollution numbers have a very real value... especially for builders!

"hmm... somewhere in the half of this 256x256 map that i control, there's one more pollution..."

Alex · December 8, 2003, 20:08

I use both screens all the time. I like them, they add a bit of flavour to the game, as Plotinus said.

Brundlefly · December 9, 2003, 10:57

And that will be plus one for Alex...

vmxa1 and asleep, you mentioned you use the stats but you didnt say how they are useful to you. I'm looking for tips here...

Back to the Histograph : It seems like it would be so easy to just show numerical representation of power where score is when you switch graph view to power. Here's more on how I use the powergraph: If my powerstripe is slightly larger than a civ, this means I can extort 20-40 gp. If it is about 25% larger, I know I can get 100gp. If it is 50% that usually means a tech. I'm constantly extorting civs in the games I play on Emperor. I dont play any lower than that. If I play DemiGod or above I'm usually the weakest early on. ...

asleepathewheel · December 9, 2003, 12:38

Quote:

Originally posted by bfg9000
vmxa1 and asleep, you mentioned you use the stats but you didnt say how they are useful to you. I'm looking for tips here...

well, in PBEM (or otherwise) it goes from mundane knowledge like disease=flood plains or marsh early on, gives tips about opponents land (if you are on one) to the more complicated GNP, manu, etc. I don't really care about these in epic games, as there are usually 15 other civs to deal with. however in pbem where there are maybe 7 other civs, you can sorta figure out how you are doing in relation to your opponents. Ok, say I am ranked 4th in manufacturing. I can move my work force around to see where my nearest opponents are, either by moving to more shield productive tiles or away from them. And in PBEM, since you know everyone's scores, you can sorta guess the positions of your opponents, and figure out how you are doing comparatively. I don't do this in epic ai games, as frankly I don't need to (pick on the most opportune target) but in PBEM games (especially the PTWDG) its pretty interesting stuff, and passes the time between turns. I learned from the masters, Dominae and Nbarclay, among others during the PTWDG, otherwise I wouldn't know what was going on.

Did this make sense to you?

Shogun Gunner · December 9, 2003, 12:40

I routinely check the Histograph. For one, I enjoy maps...all type of maps. I have a Histograph of the world hanging in my office.

Similar to other posters, I use it as a gauge to determine who should I fear, who should fear me....perhaps even determining the potential of a cultural flip if I have a border city in a precarious situation. Next to a neighbor with lower culture, I don't worry as much...

If this was beefed up even more in Civ4, I would be happy with that...

vmxa1 · December 9, 2003, 13:27

I use them to see how I stand with the amount of land I have and my production values.
It is not so much as a strategic use as it is for entertainment.

Alex · December 9, 2003, 13:56

Quote:

Originally posted by bfg9000
And that will be plus one for Alex...

Thanks. I do my best.

G'Kar · December 9, 2003, 21:07

I look at both screens often.

Bamspeedy has a guide to how the demographics are computed in the CFC strat forum. (I also think its on Poly somewhere)

Brundlefly · December 10, 2003, 09:57

Quote:

Originally posted by G'Kar
I look at both screens often.

Bamspeedy has a guide to how the demographics are computed in the CFC strat forum. (I also think its on Poly somewhere)

I'd appreciate it if you could post a link to that information here. Thanks.

vmxa1 · December 10, 2003, 13:42

I think this is the data:

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
Although the Demographics screen isn't really useful, many people are curious as to what those numbers really mean. Many people had theories and could figure out by themselves how some of them were figured.
Here is my analysis after extensive testing in the debug mode for PTW:

Approval rating: This one's easy. The percentage of your people that are happy. If every single person is happy, you have 100%. If everyone is content it is 50%. Edit: This can be misleading when you get specialists, because the specialists count as only content people. So even if everyone is happy or an entertainer, you won't have 100% approval rating if you have any specialists.

Population: Add up all the population you get from the city view from all your cities. Not population points, like size 1, 2 or 3, etc. but the 10,000 or 100,000 you see under the city name.

GNP: Total gold in all your cities before corruption takes a bite out of it.
1 gold= 1 million

Mfg. Goods: Total unwasted shields in all your cities.
1 shield = 1 megaton.

Land Area: # of tiles in your territory * 100.
1 Tile =100 square miles
Sea is included in this, but does not help in the territory part of your game score.

Literacy: % of your citizens who live in a city with a library, university, AND research lab. If every city has just a library you will have 33%, because they are missing the other 2 science buildings.

Edit: Or live in a city with 1 or more scientific Great Wonders (Great Library, Newtons, SETI, Theory of Evolution, Cure for Cancer, and Internet) Copernicus's does not count because despite it helps science, it isn't given the scientific flag. Having 1 of those wonders counts the same as if they had all the other improvements in the city. Two small wonders (apollo and Intelligence Agency) give you credit for having 50% science in that city. You also get 3% added to your literacy rate when you get the literature tech. No bonus when you get education. Great Library still helps your literacy rate even after it is obsolete.

Disease: % of the tiles in your territory that is floodplains or jungle.

Pollution: # of tiles that are currently polluted.

Life expectancy: % of your citizens who live in a city with a granary, aqueduct, AND hospital. Minimum is 20, maximum is 99.

Family Size: The average amount of excess food that each city is producing/2. If you have 1 city that is producing 4 extra food, that 4 food would feed 2 people, so your family size would be 2 children. Minimum is 1, hard to say exactly what the max would be. In most cases you won't see this above 2, maybe 3 or 4 if all your cities are extremely rich in food, experiencing a very fast growth period or just put down a alot of railroads on irrigated tiles.

Military Service: 10 years * # of military units / # of citizens. Military units are units with an attack and defense value, so workers, scouts and princesses don't count. Kings do. So at the start of a mass regicide game you will have a military service of 70 years because of the 7 military units *10 years divided by just your 1 citizen. 0 years if you have no army or you have just a few units, but thousands of population points.

Annual Income: The number of connected strategic/luxury resource types in your territory. The minimum value is 1 and you get a +1 bonus for your first trade route with another civ. Thanks DaveMcW

Productivity: The total amount of uncorrupted gold, unwasted shields, and excess food you are producing in all your cities