Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 14, 2003, 15:16   #31
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
Quote:
i think they could redo the combat system totally to make it much more strategic. Whenever i play civ these days, its always the empire with the best combination of largest industrial capaicty and advanced techs amd stuff that win wars, very rarely does a strategy have much to do with it, or rather, it could have much much more to do with it.
/me thinks this is rather accurate historically
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Kuciwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 17:48   #32
Fosse
Alpha Centauri PBEMCivilization IV: MultiplayerC4WDG Stratega
King
 
Local Time: 08:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,668
Quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
Quote:
i think they could redo the combat system totally to make it much more strategic. Whenever i play civ these days, its always the empire with the best combination of largest industrial capaicty and advanced techs amd stuff that win wars, very rarely does a strategy have much to do with it, or rather, it could have much much more to do with it.
* skywalker thinks this is rather accurate historically
But overwhelminly not fun.

The big kid always wins. Wee.

Game balance should be such that you can never count somebody out until they've been wiped right off of the face of the Earth.
Fosse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 18:58   #33
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
That's a bit extreme. However, I think you are underestimating the value of strategy in C3. It is the strategy in becoming big - and remember, it is easy to lose your bigness if you overcommit.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Kuciwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 22:50   #34
MxM
Warlord
 
MxM's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Planet Earth, Solar System
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally posted by Fosse


But overwhelminly not fun.

The big kid always wins. Wee.

Game balance should be such that you can never count somebody out until they've been wiped right off of the face of the Earth.
I completely agree with the statement, but I think the solution is different. In EU, even the smallest nation has chance not because of the tactical battles, but because of DIPLOMACY! If you are small, you form alliance with others to make a force against the big guys.

I also like the idea that it is not enough to capture the city, you need to have the opposite alliance to sign the peace treaty that accepts that you are getting this city.

IMO the EU diplomacy is the only thing that makes EU game good, the rest is done much better in CIV.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russell
MxM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 23:03   #35
Kramerman
Prince
 
Kramerman's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Posts: 884
Quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
Quote:
i think they could redo the combat system totally to make it much more strategic. Whenever i play civ these days, its always the empire with the best combination of largest industrial capaicty and advanced techs amd stuff that win wars, very rarely does a strategy have much to do with it, or rather, it could have much much more to do with it.
* skywalker thinks this is rather accurate historically
Quote:
Sure, tech and industry play a huge roll, but strategy must play a bigger role.


Look at germany, for example, it had a nice tech edge and a good industrial capacity, yet it still took on all of Europe during WWII. Why was it almost successful were it was so outmanned? It had great leaders and a superior strategy among other things.


Just like in reality, i think a successful yet moderately sized civ should be able to have a chance against a number of eaqual civs or against a much larger civ of the same tech. This can be done by redoing the combat system whish is all i advocate. i just threw out some ideas
__________________
"I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
- BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum
Kramerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 23:29   #36
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
However, most of the strategy in the real world is in AMASSING large military forces, not so much using them. A lot of Germany's successes came from the fact that they were able to achieve superiority in the field.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Kuciwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 23:38   #37
Kramerman
Prince
 
Kramerman's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Posts: 884
strategy is involved in ammassing a large army, yes. but even more strategy is used in the actual war fighting. With an advanced combat system, an inferior force shouold have a chance for some sort of decisive victory that could turn the war in their favor, and stuff. that is vaguely possible in the old civ 3 system (and was represented in the old civ1 and 2 systems by being able to destroy entire stacks, but better representations of deciveness must be found), but not nearly realisticlly possible. a revamped combat system should allow this
__________________
"I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
- BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum
Kramerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15, 2003, 00:05   #38
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
It is in fact quite possible in C3. With the retreat of fast-movers, you can turn a war of attrition to your favor, especially with the advent of three-move units (Cavalry). Mobility is actually quite powerful in C3.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Kuciwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15, 2003, 01:02   #39
Kramerman
Prince
 
Kramerman's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Posts: 884
young skywalker, mobility is but a single facet of strategy, which is immensely complex. Civ 3, like ive said, incorporates strategy to some degree, but it is no where near what is possible. Im not asking for total realism or strategic immersion, but i am asking for a more sophisticated and realistic system
__________________
"I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
- BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum
Kramerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16, 2003, 01:24   #40
MxM
Warlord
 
MxM's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Planet Earth, Solar System
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally posted by Kramerman

Look at germany, for example, it had a nice tech edge and a good industrial capacity, yet it still took on all of Europe during WWII. Why was it almost successful were it was so outmanned? It had great leaders and a superior strategy among other things.


Just like in reality, i think a successful yet moderately sized civ should be able to have a chance against a number of eaqual civs or against a much larger civ of the same tech. This can be done by redoing the combat system whish is all i advocate. i just threw out some ideas
Superior strategy is not necessarily superior tactics.

The Germany success in the WW2 is related in huge part to, in civ terms, again DIPLOMACY. (In real life terms, diplomacy is part of overall strategy). The opposition to Germans was not exactly united until near the end of war. And guess what? Germany lost quite quickly after allies opened the “second front” at D-day.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russell
MxM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16, 2003, 02:50   #41
gopher
Warlord
 
Local Time: 10:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I eat my own poop
Posts: 216
Immigration!
If your Civ does not fufil some basic requirements, based on the age, they will move on to greener pastures! Conversly, if you have a stable, good civilization, you will get more people.
Also with this idea, people have certain needs. Without those needs, they might get rebellious (ie civil unrest). Make it less abstract than the "happy/sad/WLTKD" idea in place.
__________________
"Dave, if medicine tasted good, I'd be pouring cough syrup on my pancakes." -Jimmy James, Newsradio

"Your plans to find love, fortune, and happiness utterly ignore the Second Law Of Thermodynamics."-Horiscope from The Onion
gopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29, 2004, 20:05   #42
Spiffor
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG LegolandApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
Spiffor's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
Strong implementation of revolts, revolutions, independance wars etc!
Civ challenges you as making a "Civilization that will stand the test of time". Well, the challenge isn't very difficult, as 6000-year-long survival is a much easier goal to reach than victory in 2000 AD.

Revolts are a must if we want to make Civ a game more interesting and more difficult, as the millenia-long survival becomes actually a challenge rather than an easy trick. And it will make for a much more interesting expansion / shrinking dynamics as well


Multilateral diplomacy, where you can be a mediator, and help solve multilateral crises, or decide multilateral alliances.


Nomadism. Make the early Civ experience difference from the late one.
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Spiffor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29, 2004, 20:09   #43
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
Revolts, splinter civs, etc would be a great twist for Civ4. But then we've been saying that since Civ2.
GhengisFarb™ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29, 2004, 20:35   #44
Spiffor
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG LegolandApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
Spiffor's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
Quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb
Revolts, splinter civs, etc would be a great twist for Civ4. But then we've been saying that since Civ2.
Maye this time they won't lose half their staff in mid development? :hoping:
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Spiffor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29, 2004, 21:41   #45
Brent
Prince
 
Local Time: 06:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 635
Special Cities

Have special prenamed cities that you can choose to build, and whenever you build a Special City you are asked if you want it to be your new capital. Special cities automatically generate culture. There should be incentives for not building all special cities all at once in one place. You can designate a city as Special even if you don't use a Special name. Special cities have some unique features, but maybe only if you use a special name. When you say you want to build a new Special City or upgrade to one, you are given a list of names to choose from. Special Cities are a way to put cities that are close to each other or related in the real world close to each other in the game.

Have an option for the game to end when all Special Cities have been conquered. Let a Special City build more than one thing at the same time. Require the capital to be a Special City. A city could spontaneously achieve Special status. Special Cities could have bonuses to some build projects. Wonders might only be buildable in Special Cities. Special Cities can become Metropolitan Areas, each of which includes cities in adjacent tiles and suburbs in other adjacent tiles. On a small map, possibly all cities would have Special status. It could require two settlers to build a Special City.

Wierd Editor Options

Have a mode for only military units, no settlers, no cities, no building. Have options for not allowing more than one unit in the same square, and only moving one unit per turn.

Hotkeys

Have a hotkey to center the map on your capital, and be able to set hotkeys for other parts of the map.
Brent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29, 2004, 21:42   #46
Fosse
Alpha Centauri PBEMCivilization IV: MultiplayerC4WDG Stratega
King
 
Local Time: 08:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,668
Quote:
Have a hotkey to center the map on your capital, and be able to set hotkeys for other parts of the map.
Press H.
Fosse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1, 2004, 01:34   #47
Plotinus
Prince
 
Local Time: 15:18
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally posted by gopher
Immigration!
If your Civ does not fufil some basic requirements, based on the age, they will move on to greener pastures! Conversly, if you have a stable, good civilization, you will get more people.
Also with this idea, people have certain needs. Without those needs, they might get rebellious (ie civil unrest). Make it less abstract than the "happy/sad/WLTKD" idea in place.
Fabulous idea! Like SimCity - people move in and out depending on how well you're governing them. Could be interesting.
Plotinus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:18.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team