December 10, 2003, 20:20
|
#121
|
Settler
Local Time: 14:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 19
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Ramo
What's more alarming than shutting the Euros out is that we tend not to use Iraqi contracters even when they can get the job done cheaper, and we're giving contracts to notoriously anti-union businesses.
|
Germany a France do not "the Euros" make.
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:23
|
#122
|
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 14:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Skyjack666
Germany a France do not "the Euros" make.
|
Really?
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:25
|
#123
|
Settler
Local Time: 14:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 19
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by GePap
Actually, if the French find that this violates terms of the WTO, they can take the US to court.
And they can refuse to forgive any of Iraq's debt to them as well, like the Russians might.
|
 YIPES!
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:25
|
#124
|
Deity
Local Time: 09:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Skyjack666
Germany a France do not "the Euros" make.
|
What about Finland? We've banned them too.
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:25
|
#125
|
King
Local Time: 06:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
|
Well, GePap, I do admit that Baker's mission to resturcture Iraqi's debt will fall on deaf ears in the lands of the weasels -- unless, that is, he can offer them something in return. Perhaps this is why they were excluded in the first place -- so that Baker might have some bargaining chips.
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:26
|
#126
|
Settler
Local Time: 14:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 19
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by DinoDoc
What about Finland? We've banned them too.
|
Things are looking up, then!
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:27
|
#127
|
Emperor
Local Time: 08:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Skyjack666
YIPES!
|
 So the Russians might loose out on a few hundread million dollars (ditto for either French or German companies), but then they get to say "screw you US, Iraq has to pay back all the billions they owe us, and don;t ask us to forgive the debts"-now, how does this help the Iraq situation?
It doesn't. But its not like you want the situation in Iraq to get better, right?
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:30
|
#128
|
Emperor
Local Time: 08:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Ned
Well, GePap, I do admit that Baker's mission to resturcture Iraqi's debt will fall on deaf ears in the lands of the weasels -- unless, that is, he can offer them something in return. Perhaps this is why they were excluded in the first place -- so that Baker might have some bargaining chips.
|
What chips? The contracts thier companies might get are dawrved by the size of Iraq's debts. Do you think Russian companies woud be given 8 billion dollars worth of these contracts? What the US needs is goodwill and trust-and we just lost a good chunk of that.
Anyone who thinks this would make people join so they can partake in a 19 billion dollar pool is an idiot. Plain and simple.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:32
|
#129
|
Settler
Local Time: 14:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 19
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by GePap
So the Russians might loose out on a few hundread million dollars (ditto for either French or German companies), but then they get to say "screw you US, Iraq has to pay back all the billions they owe us, and don;t ask us to forgive the debts"-now, how does this help the Iraq situation?
It doesn't. But its not like you want the situation in Iraq to get better, right?
|
Well, then, that's on THEIR conscience...if they have one.
And since when did they care about the situation? They let the madness go on unabated along with the rest of us. As long as they could do business with Soddom, they were OK with anything that went on.
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:35
|
#130
|
Settler
Local Time: 16:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
|
They've banned Finland. Way to go....
Just wait 'till Pekka gets here. Although he'll propably blame his communist regime.
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:35
|
#131
|
Emperor
Local Time: 09:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
Interesting eye-witness perspective on the Iraqi contract racket (as well as the occupation in general):
http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrow...GLyw&user=&pw=
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:37
|
#132
|
Emperor
Local Time: 09:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
Quote:
|
Well, then, that's on THEIR conscience...if they have one.
And since when did they care about the situation? They let the madness go on unabated along with the rest of us. As long as they could do business with Soddom, they were OK with anything that went on.
|
So you're ok with the US acting like petulant childrend and ****ing over the Iraqis?
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:43
|
#133
|
Deity
Local Time: 06:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,628
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by GePap
Do you think Russian companies woud be given 8 billion dollars worth of these contracts? What the US needs is goodwill and trust-and we just lost a good chunk of that.
Anyone who thinks this would make people join so they can partake in a 19 billion dollar pool is an idiot. Plain and simple.
|
You raise a good point Gepap. There isn't that much to gain by these contracts for these nations. The only ones who will gain are the individual companies. The Bush administration does a great disservice to the US and a great service to US corporations.
__________________
Obedience unlocks understanding. - Rick Warren
1 John 2:3 - ... we know Christ if we obey his commandments. (GWT)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am ... the truth." (NKJV)
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:52
|
#134
|
Deity
Local Time: 06:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,628
|
So true. The Bush administration is ****ing over the Iraqis and the US taxpayers.
__________________
Obedience unlocks understanding. - Rick Warren
1 John 2:3 - ... we know Christ if we obey his commandments. (GWT)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am ... the truth." (NKJV)
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 20:55
|
#135
|
Emperor
Local Time: 09:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
|
shut up, you leftie scum. bush can do no wrong. profit is still different from an unfair tax. and what halliburton, bechtel, and bush and d1ck are doing in iraq is perfectly legal and fair, seeing as we were the ones who dealt with the security threat that we constructed and now must reconstruct to prevent it from becoming a future threat.
__________________
B♭3
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 21:01
|
#136
|
Deity
Local Time: 06:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,628
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Q Cubed
profit is still different from an unfair tax.
|
__________________
Obedience unlocks understanding. - Rick Warren
1 John 2:3 - ... we know Christ if we obey his commandments. (GWT)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am ... the truth." (NKJV)
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 21:06
|
#137
|
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 14:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Skyjack666
Well, then, that's on THEIR conscience...if they have one.
|
If one can stop a crime but doesn't, they are just as guilty as the person who commited it 
And trust me: Russia has *NO* conscience.
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 22:10
|
#138
|
Prince
Local Time: 14:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Posts: 483
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by paiktis22
Only in barbaric times.
|
Times are always barbaric!
__________________
Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2003, 22:12
|
#139
|
Prince
Local Time: 14:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Posts: 483
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
And trust me: Russia has *NO* conscience.
|
But we've got such a big soul instead!
__________________
Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 01:57
|
#140
|
King
Local Time: 08:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Lost
Posts: 1,020
|
__________________
"Mal nommer les choses, c'est accroître le malheur du monde" - Camus (thanks Davout)
"I thought you must be dead ..." he said simply. "So did I for a while," said Ford, "and then I decided I was a lemon for a couple of weeks. A kept myself amused all that time jumping in and out of a gin and tonic."
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 02:42
|
#141
|
Deity
Local Time: 22:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Skyjack666
Well, then, that's on THEIR conscience...if they have one.
|
/me finds the irony of that statement is waaay too much.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 04:14
|
#142
|
King
Local Time: 16:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: of genial epicuri
Posts: 1,570
|
I hope the Bush administration isnt stupid enough to really expect anti-war countries selling their principals for lousy 19 billion, or probably much less.
What surprises me is that Russia hasnt played tough on US yet. I mean in the Soviet days...
__________________
Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.
- Paul Valery
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 04:20
|
#143
|
Deity
Local Time: 07:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
|
I never been as embarrassed to be an american as today
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 04:22
|
#144
|
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 14:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
|
I know. If the US wants to play hardball, then Russia should step up and play.
Especially now that the tide has turned quite violently against the US.
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 04:35
|
#145
|
Local Time: 10:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
|
Quote:
|
I wonder if the excluded countries can sue under the WTO and/or NAFTA (in the case of Canada)?
|
Why? After all, these are government contracts paid for by American taxpayers. Really, all this is is formalizing something. We could have allowed those companies to make a bid, but then pick an American company in the end.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 04:45
|
#146
|
Deity
Local Time: 07:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
|
but shouldn't the best company for the job be considered? That is the most logical thing to do.
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 05:03
|
#147
|
King
Local Time: 06:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
|
The axis of weasel lack of support for the war, their supplying of weapons to Saddam, their lack of support or contribution to the reconostruction and their insistence on payment in full of outstanding debts will not be forgotten -- by the people of Iraq.
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 05:30
|
#148
|
Prince
Local Time: 10:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 819
|
I knew this was going to be a problem months ago. As an individual who loathes NAFTA/WTO, this is in violation of the WTO. The reason the administration says this is a security issue is because that's the only exception. So it seems WTO is good only when it favors the Bush adminstration and US companies. Some of the press is starting to pick up on this, that's how I found out about the security exception.
However, the Europeans and Russia should be careful. Some economists/theorists/talking heads have discussed, damn I can't remember the technical phrase, but the idea that debts incurred by vicious dictators to kill their own people while raping their country's resources are not enforcable on those people once they get rid of the bastard. Debts for genuine economic development would be honored, but not weapons, palaces, bribes, kick-backs, tec. Of course the entire industrial world is terrified of this. I would love to see the new Iraqi council, once they have their own government, do exactly that. Including any US debts from prior to the first Gulf War  .
__________________
The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 06:19
|
#149
|
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 14:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
|
|
|
|
|
December 11, 2003, 06:24
|
#150
|
King
Local Time: 06:19
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
|
Commie T, are you willing to put that to a vote in Iraq?
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:19.
|
|