Thread Tools
Old December 11, 2003, 23:17   #1
Berzerker
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Berzerker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
Sean Hannity, the Pledge, and Christmas
All adds up to hypocrisy...

Hannity has decried that a minority would seek the removal of the words "under God" from the pledge of allegiance thereby "denying" the majority it's right to...take oaths (?). But now Hannity is on the other side, a class of 7 year olds in Washington state voted to keep the word "winter" in a song as a substitute for "Christmas" and Hannity is complaining again...

The mother of one student, whom Hannity is cheering on, declared that you can't ask 7 year olds to vote on something like that because they don't understand the concepts involved. I tend to agree, small children don't understand these concepts, that's kind of why we have age of consent laws wrt other matters.

But why does Hannity claim we can't let the minority exclude "under God" from the pledge because the majority of children want to recite those words but now the majority of these 7 year olds must be over-ruled by the minority? Live by majority rule, die by majority rule...
Berzerker is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 23:23   #2
Nubclear
NationStatesCall to Power II Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamRise of Nations MultiplayerACDG The Human HiveNever Ending StoriesACDG The Free DronesACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessGalCiv Apolyton EmpireACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameDiplomacyAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization IV PBEMAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG Peace
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
 
Nubclear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
Bad example.
Nubclear is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 23:36   #3
Berzerker
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Berzerker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
Of what?
Berzerker is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 23:37   #4
Nubclear
NationStatesCall to Power II Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamRise of Nations MultiplayerACDG The Human HiveNever Ending StoriesACDG The Free DronesACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessGalCiv Apolyton EmpireACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameDiplomacyAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization IV PBEMAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG Peace
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
 
Nubclear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
Hannity hypocrisy.
Nubclear is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 23:40   #5
MrFun
Emperor
 
MrFun's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,595
Somehow this thread will tie in with why libertarianism is the best form of government for the world.
__________________
STFU and then GTFO!
MrFun is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 23:47   #6
Theben
Deity
 
Theben's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Posts: 15,132
Sorry Berzerk, but unless you have a Xmas avatar I can't help you.
__________________
I'm consitently stupid- Japher
I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned
Theben is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 23:55   #7
Berzerker
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Berzerker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164


CT, preaching majority rule when it suits you, then preaching minority rule when it suits you, is hypocrisy.

Mr Fun, I don't jump into your threads to announce how whatever it is you're talking will relate to homosexuality.
Berzerker is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 23:56   #8
Berzerker
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Berzerker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
Theben, that's my winter avatar
Berzerker is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 01:31   #9
Theben
Deity
 
Theben's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Posts: 15,132
But it doesn't have a hat.
__________________
I'm consitently stupid- Japher
I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned
Theben is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 01:38   #10
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Yeah this is kind of a silly example of Hannity hypocracy, when there are so many better examples there. It'd be like saying it is hypocritical to say we should have majority rule in our democracy, but being against a bunch of kids deciding to skip school because they can't make informed decisions yet.

The hypocracy here is a result of a strech by the thread starter.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 02:17   #11
MrFun
Emperor
 
MrFun's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,595
Quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker

Mr Fun, I don't jump into your threads to announce how whatever it is you're talking will relate to homosexuality.
Just having a little fun -- but please, carry on without me.
__________________
STFU and then GTFO!
MrFun is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 02:35   #12
Berzerker
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Berzerker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
Quote:
It'd be like saying it is hypocritical to say we should have majority rule in our democracy, but being against a bunch of kids deciding to skip school because they can't make informed decisions yet.

The hypocracy here is a result of a strech by the thread starter.
Your analogy is askew (I like that word ), in support of the pledge Hannity cites what the majority of students allegedly want but rejects that principle when the majority of students in this music class vote against what he wants. This isn't about adults voting in one case and students voting in another...
Berzerker is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 03:27   #13
Gatekeeper
Mac
King
 
Gatekeeper's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: United States of America
Posts: 2,306
I'm just wondering how our forebears *survived* prior to the early 1950s, when "under God" was added to the Pledge just to make us look more God-fearing than the (officially) atheistic Soviet Union). Were our forebears unenlightened heathens?

Gatekeeper
__________________
"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

"Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius
Gatekeeper is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 06:01   #14
Ben Kenobi
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II Succession GamesCivilization II Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Ben Kenobi's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 18,269
If the Pledge means nothing, why should we care about removing the words? Why not let bygones be bygones?
__________________
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette and Adam Smith you will be missed
"All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady." - JRR Tolkein
Get busy living or get busy dying.
Ben Kenobi is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 08:12   #15
uh Clem
King
 
uh Clem's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Born in the US; damned if I know where I live now
Posts: 1,574
If the pledge means nothing, why is it so important to have under God in it?

Of course, that is part of a decent school's mission: teaching students to fit in by performing meaningless rituals.
__________________
"When all else fails, a pigheaded refusal to look facts in the face will see us through." -- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett
uh Clem is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 08:36   #16
Q Classic
Emperor
 
Q Classic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
asking hannity for intellectual integrity rather than half-truths and spin is like asking al franken to say something nice about fox news.

that **** just ain't happenin'.
__________________
B♭3
Q Classic is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 08:37   #17
Q Classic
Emperor
 
Q Classic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
besides, if hannity were worth his salt, he wouldn't have half his show devoted to callers calling in to just say how good he is. hell, i'm depressed, and i don't need that kind of ego boost.
__________________
B♭3
Q Classic is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 08:55   #18
PLATO
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildGalCiv Apolyton EmpireCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCivilization III Democracy GameCiv4 SP Democracy GameThe Courts of Candle'BreC4BtSDG Rabbits of CaerbannogC4DG The HordeC4WDG éirich tuireannC3CDG Blood Oath Horde
Emperor
 
PLATO's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Occupied South
Posts: 4,729
Well IMHO, it can't hurt to say "one nation under God". Everyone is free to have their own concept of God. If you believe that their is no God, then "one nation under nothing" is the implied meaning for you and isn't that what you are really saying?

As for the song, the writer used "Christmas" not "winter". If you want winter...use a different song.
__________________
Favorite Staff Quotes:
People are screeming for consistency, but it ain't gonna happen from me. -rah
God... I have to agree with Asher ;) -Ming - Asher gets it :b: -Ming
Troll on dope is like a moose on the loose - Grandpa Troll
PLATO is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 09:32   #19
TheStinger
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
I can't believe that a nation can be so insecure about the patriotism of its youngsters that they are involved in a state sponsored affirmation of loyalty.

Its all a bit 1984
__________________
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
TheStinger is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 10:23   #20
Caligastia
Emperor
 
Caligastia's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3,402
I would say Hannity is probably more concerned with the removal of Christianity from everyday life than the issue of whether a majority should rule or not. I don't think he is necessarily being inconsistent here either. With respect to both issues I think we could safely say that the majority of the country would take Hannity's side.

Personally, I think it's a shame that Christmas songs can no longer be sung in schools without politics getting in the way.
__________________
...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty
Caligastia is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 12:49   #21
DinoDoc
Civilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
DinoDoc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
Re: Sean Hannity, the Pledge, and Christmas
Quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
But now Hannity is on the other side, a class of 7 year olds in Washington state voted to keep the word "winter" in a song as a substitute for "Christmas" and Hannity is complaining again...
That seems like a wierd thing to worry about enough to put to a vote to anyone. What was the song anyway?
DinoDoc is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 13:51   #22
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
in support of the pledge Hannity cites what the majority of students allegedly want but rejects that principle when the majority of students in this music class vote against what he wants.
Where does this come from? When did Hannity ever say the majority of STUDENTS want 'under God' in the pledge? He merely says the majority want it, which means the adults as well as the students (probably more the adults). From the opening post it says nothing about the majority of students want it.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 17:38   #23
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
under God was a 1954 congressional addition..no reason to have any loyalty to the anti-communist ranting of the 50's congress.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 17:59   #24
Boris Godunov
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Boris Godunov's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
Quote:
Originally posted by PLATO
Well IMHO, it can't hurt to say "one nation under God". Everyone is free to have their own concept of God. If you believe that their is no God, then "one nation under nothing" is the implied meaning for you and isn't that what you are really saying?

As for the song, the writer used "Christmas" not "winter". If you want winter...use a different song.
Everyone is free to have their own concept of Satan. So if we substituted Satan for God, would that be hunky-dory to the religionistas?
__________________
Tutto nel mondo è burla
Boris Godunov is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 18:03   #25
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
One nation under Allah..one nation under Zeus?

Why not, one nation under an unknown supernatural essence? or one nation under the Gods?

The pledge of alliegence spent most of its history without the "under God" statement. I say, this is one case where a return to the good old days is called for, to undo this congressional add-on.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 18:08   #26
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
one nation under Zeus
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 18:09   #27
Boris Godunov
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Boris Godunov's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
I have a good comromise. To many, if not all, religious folks, God is love, love is god. Atheists also cherish the importance of love.

So, how about "One Nation, Under Love"

Problem solved. Thank you.
__________________
Tutto nel mondo è burla
Boris Godunov is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 18:12   #28
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Make war, not love

__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 18:13   #29
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
One nation, under Cheese

This brought to you by the National Cheese council.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 18:14   #30
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:25
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Naw, it has to be under Apple Pie... more patriotic
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:25.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team