Democracy at work in Canada

JimmyCracksCorn · December 13, 2003, 12:40

As of yesterday, Canada has a new Prime Minister, as Jean Chretien has stepped down.

Paul Martin has taken over as the new leader of the Liberal Party, and has appointed a whole new cabinet, and therefore, Canada has a completely new government. However, not one vote was cast outside of the Liberal Party. And its ultimately up to the new PM to call a new election... when he feels like it.

Democracy at work

(I actually like Paul Martin, I just wish this country was slightly more democratic...)

JimmyCracksCorn · December 13, 2003, 12:45

oh, but don't tell Mike Moore...

Wezil · December 13, 2003, 12:46

Welcome to parliamentary democracy Jimmy.

Why the fuss? You know Canadians will fall over themselves to elect Martin when given the chance.

JimmyCracksCorn · December 13, 2003, 12:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Wezil
Welcome to parliamentary democracy Jimmy.

Why the fuss? You know Canadians will fall over themselves to elect Martin when given the chance.

Probably... I just think it would be a bit more democratic if Martin had to wait until AFTER his election to appoint a new cabinet. Because for about a year now Canada will have a completely unelected government.

Tell me you don't see how thats wrong?

I do like Paul Martin though, its just that the system is inherently undemocratic.

EDIT: And granted Paul martin appears to be commited to democratic reform. Again, its not the man, its the system...

MrFun · December 13, 2003, 13:19

Where is Canada?

Wezil · December 13, 2003, 14:27

It won't be a year Jimmy. We will vote late spring/early summer.

As for the system - yes, it is terrible undemocratic to have an "unelected" PM but most of our 'first past the post' system is undemocratic. Sadly, the only party truly interested in electoral reform in this country has given up the fight.

If you think Paul Martin is interested in reforming the system you probably believed the 'Red Book' promises as well.

I don't like the man but I am resigned to the fact my fellow thoughtfull

Canadians do.

Zylka · December 13, 2003, 14:44

The right unites, baby.

Where ya been, Jimmy?

Zylka · December 13, 2003, 14:44

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun
Where is Canada?

It's where you can get married

MrFun · December 13, 2003, 14:48

It's also the place I sometimes dream about, in becoming a Canadian citizen whenever I have nightmares about Bush being reelected in United States.

Agathon · December 13, 2003, 14:56

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun
It's also the place I sometimes dream about, in becoming a Canadian citizen whenever I have nightmares about Bush being reelected in United States.

Why don't you move then? Why stay in a country that is hell bent on depriving you of your civil rights?

Come to Canada, it's safe, there are plenty of jobs, fine universities, and you can watch all the American TV, just like other Canucks do.

Gays are on average richer than straights (no kiddies) so even the Tories will welcome you (perhaps sotto voce, but they will).

Wezil · December 13, 2003, 15:18

Mr. Fun - As Rick Mercer says "We are on top of you, which makes the US our *****"

MrFun · December 13, 2003, 17:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Wezil
Mr. Fun - As Rick Mercer says "We are on top of you, which makes the US our *****"

Look, just because United States failed twice in our history to conquer you guys, doesn't mean you have to brag about it.

Agathon · December 13, 2003, 17:12

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun

Look, just because United States failed twice in our history to conquer you guys, doesn't mean you have to brag about it.

And we kicked your ass at hockey!!!!!

notyoueither · December 13, 2003, 17:17

Unelected? I could have sworn each and every one of those guys and gals were elected to Parliament.

St Leo · December 13, 2003, 17:25

The transfer is perfectly democratic as far as I am concerned, but Paul Martin is still a right-wing dork whose only skill is balancing budgets.

Az · December 13, 2003, 18:06

Quote:

but Paul Martin is still a right-wing dork whose only skill is balancing budgets

I wish we had one of those.

Agathon · December 13, 2003, 18:13

NYE is right. The Prime Minister is chosen by caucus and can be booted out by the same.

Agathon · December 13, 2003, 18:14

Quote:

Originally posted by St Leo
The transfer is perfectly democratic as far as I am concerned, but Paul Martin is still a right-wing dork whose only skill is balancing budgets.

Yes, but this is a good thing. Have you seen the NDP's poll numbers lately. If they play their cards right they could soon be the official opposition.

Zylka · December 13, 2003, 19:01

Quote:

Originally posted by St Leo
The transfer is perfectly democratic as far as I am concerned, but Paul Martin is still a right-wing dork whose only skill is balancing budgets.

Great. Our dollar will someday be worth more than 32 cents US again - and we can quit making priority of pleasing Chretien's friends and marrying two men

Agathon · December 13, 2003, 19:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Zylka

Great. Our dollar will someday be worth more than 32 cents US again - and we can quit making priority of pleasing Chretien's friends and marrying two men

I thought you were pro sexual deviance in all its forms.

Zylka · December 13, 2003, 20:00

As a national priority?

Exactly what a fag from Toronto would think

Agathon · December 13, 2003, 20:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Zylka
As a national priority?

Exactly what a fag from Toronto would think

I'll report your observations to my wife.

KrazyHorse · December 13, 2003, 20:45

Quote:

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
As of yesterday, Canada has a new Prime Minister, as Jean Chretien has stepped down.

Paul Martin has taken over as the new leader of the Liberal Party, and has appointed a whole new cabinet, and therefore, Canada has a completely new government. However, not one vote was cast outside of the Liberal Party. And its ultimately up to the new PM to call a new election... when he feels like it.

Democracy at work

(I actually like Paul Martin, I just wish this country was slightly more democratic...)

You're a dumbass.

The Prime Minister is simply the head of the majority party in the House of Commons. All of his power derives directly from the support of his caucus (the composition of which is directly determined by us in 301 ridings across the country at least once every 5 years).

If you want undemocratic then you should talk to Britain where:

a) The same thing can happen
and
b) The monarch has intervened in selecting the formation of minority governments in living memory

KrazyHorse · December 13, 2003, 20:47

Quote:

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn

Probably... I just think it would be a bit more democratic if Martin had to wait until AFTER his election to appoint a new cabinet. Because for about a year now Canada will have a completely unelected government.

No we don't. We elected a majority Liberal government ~3 years ago, and we still have one.

KrazyHorse · December 13, 2003, 20:50

Quote:

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn

Probably... I just think it would be a bit more democratic if Martin had to wait until AFTER his election to appoint a new cabinet. Because for about a year now Canada will have a completely unelected government.

Tell me you don't see how thats wrong?

I do like Paul Martin though, its just that the system is inherently undemocratic.

EDIT: And granted Paul martin appears to be commited to democratic reform. Again, its not the man, its the system...

Any less democratic than the current setup of your electoral college where a vote in Wyoming counts for 7 times as much as a vote in California and where most states operate on a first past the post for the whole state?

notyoueither · December 14, 2003, 01:28

His electoral college?

JimmyCracksCorn · December 14, 2003, 03:20

You people are still missing the point. Paul Martin is the PM of this country, and he was never elected. Not to mention he has the right to appoint an entirely new cabinet, which is in no way in the hands of the Canadian public.

Canada has an ENTIRELY NEW GOVERNMENT WHICH WAS IN NO WAY ELECTED BY CANADA.

Exactly what any fag from outside of his right frame of mind would support.

Think about it. Paul Martin is your head of state (essentially) and you NEVER ELECTED HIM!!!

DO YOU NOT GET THIS!?!?!?!?!?!?!

JimmyCracksCorn · December 14, 2003, 03:22

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

You're a dumbass.

The Prime Minister is simply the head of the majority party in the House of Commons. All of his power derives directly from the support of his caucus (the composition of which is directly determined by us in 301 ridings across the country at least once every 5 years).

If you want undemocratic then you should talk to Britain where:

a) The same thing can happen
and
b) The monarch has intervened in selecting the formation of minority governments in living memory

I'm a dumbass??? I'm talking about how exactly what you said is UNDEMOCRATIC.

You seriously don't understand what I'm getting at???

No wonder this country is in such a sorry state of political affairs... people just don't give a ****.

JimmyCracksCorn · December 14, 2003, 03:24

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

No we don't. We elected a majority Liberal government ~3 years ago, and we still have one.

True... but people still voted for the man rather than the party. You can't think if Joe Clark had run for Liberal PM in 2000 he would have got the same turnout.....

JimmyCracksCorn · December 14, 2003, 03:26

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

Any less democratic than the current setup of your electoral college where a vote in Wyoming counts for 7 times as much as a vote in California and where most states operate on a first past the post for the whole state?

MY electoral college? I'm Canadian...