The "I think I might be losing this one, what do I do?" thread - Page 2

Dominae · December 18, 2003, 15:59

Conquests or Play the World (or just plain old Civ3)?

David Murray · December 18, 2003, 16:03

My apologies - Conquests, of course!

Theseus · December 18, 2003, 16:18

David, I'll look tonight.

EST, I am not sure if I understand what you are getting at. I don;t think there is any kind of mechanism that changes in favor of the losing player... rather, there are things like tech strategies (drafting and branch leads), resource free units, bombardment, attitude / reputation management, etc., that provide the means for coming from behind.

ducki · December 18, 2003, 16:18

This was going to be an edit, but you guys are too fast.
Here's links to the two games I posted that were mentioned. This format seemed to work really well both for myself and the pros here. It does, however, entail a slightly greater time investment as you'll need to take and resize screenshots if you wish to get help without folks loading your .sav.

Anyway, the links.
FP+Palace Placement
Can't find this one.

Ducki does Regent
http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...14#post1380414

Ducki does PtW Monarch
http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...33#post1436633

TheArsenal · December 18, 2003, 17:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Tall Stranger
It's a little tricky, because there are two components to AU. First, is the AU mod, which is designed to:
1. Improve the ability of the AI;
2. Enhance strategic options for the player;
3. Complete 1. and 2. above without changing the "feel" of standard, stock Civ3.
(There is a bit of tension between these three elements, which current debates in the AU forum make quite clear.)

Yep. I’ve been reading through the AU threads. It seems to me element three is constantly and seriously under siege. May not make it out alive.

My Jenny Craig testimonial? As far as playing the AU games, I have noted it before, but 208 was a defining moment in my game play and one of the major factors in accelerating my moving up to Monarch (where due to micromanagement v. fun issues I will likely remain). Although I eventually got my tail kicked around the map, no single game has taught me more. Part of that was due to in game factors and parameters, and another part due to the ability to make direct comparisons against other games.

Don't always have time for it, but its good stuff.

vmxa1 · December 18, 2003, 17:33

Garp2, I am not sure as too what the refeence maybe. I can suggest that in Civ3 you run into things like corruption (not talking about the bug). You can see the other AI's try to take on the the KAI, but I am not sure that is designed to help the humna get back in the game.
You get back in the game by out playing the AI, but if they get too far ahead or you are in a inferior position that is not always possible.
It is more a case of what Dominae mention in one of the threads, that you get to have a feel for where you are and where you need to be and at what time. This is what lets you plod on. If you are in a new level, like when I tried a Sid game, you have no idea how it is suppose to progress. That makes it hard to hang in there.

vmxa1 · December 18, 2003, 18:29

David, you will gain all ancient techs on the next turn and several middle ages techs. I would research Chiv as it is optional and the AI will surely do Invention and Theology.

I would, on the turn you get the techs start the revolution and switch to Monarchy. You will have 16 units free in Rep and 26 in Mon. You have 26 now IIRC. You need more units anyway so the cost will be going up.

I will skip the citiy spacing, because it is up in the air in C3C right now. My biggest complaint is you have so little knowledge of the map. Two civs still not seen (Egypt and Byz). It is hard to plan for a war with China, when you cannot see any of their land.

I see you are making Markets, but you need to get that silk under you control. Then some Libs as you will need to do all your own research from now (soon anyay).

Anyway I traded Lit right away to Carth/Korea/Mongols mostly for cash. I gave it to Greeks as they are about to get it anyway and now they will like you more for no real cost.

If you don't get some pikes after the revolt, you will be in big trouble. China is going to have Riders soon, if they don't now.
I hope they have already had their GA.

Theseus · December 18, 2003, 21:29

You don;t need luxuries so high... 20% seems fine.

What did you do to p*ss off everybody except Alexander?

Well, you got the GLib, but damn, that was risky... way behind on tech!

I'd fill in a lot more cities: Rome3336 (cleared), Veii441, Pompeii447, Pompeii999, and Carthage 889 (!!) at a minimum. Don;t worry about being 2 tiles from AI cities... it's too early for culture to be an issue, and you might just as well raze them upon capture to get better ciy placement.

Many more Workers (really, a LOT more), and many many many more Legions. Fine, build the Markets at Rome and Antium, but Veii goes on 3-turn Legion builds.

Shantung is just annoying beyond words... I'm not in love with the current military disposition, but you can definitely take it, and then build down there too.

Keep your Legions in action!! Try to use one Spear in a city for MP duty, only then augmented by your weaker Legions... all vets and elites should be at the front!

Next turn: Glib kicks in. Use Lit and cash to enlist local AI civs in MAs against China, and sell Lit for cash to Greece and Korea. Revolt for Monarchy.

You are on your way. Prolly some Carthage pruning next, to better shape your empire, and then Mongols (just so you don't have to see the hideousness of the late-game Ghengis Khan!

).
___________________

Macro comments:

Mucho more Workers, my man. The terrain around Rome should be chopped, roaded, mined, and irrigated by now. And more LEGIONS... they are the BOMB. You also need more of a blob shape to your empire... fill in the cracks in your perimeter.

Some really good stuff, though, like cities on river hills, and snagging the GLib.

David Murray · December 19, 2003, 02:11

Theseus and vxma1 - thank you both very much for your excellent tips. I shal do my best.

Primative1 · December 20, 2003, 17:53

I cant establish a permanent supply of Iron - both sources within my territory have run-out and no-one wants to trade it to me. Do I have to keep invading AI's to secure supplies? Is it possible to win a military victory without it? No armour, navy etc.

vmxa1 · December 20, 2003, 20:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Primative1
I cant establish a permanent supply of Iron - both sources within my territory have run-out and no-one wants to trade it to me. Do I have to keep invading AI's to secure supplies? Is it possible to win a military victory without it? No armour, navy etc.

I take so far no new source has appeared. So it is hard to say given no details, but yes you can win without iron. It is need most when you get coal.

So what is th civ and the settings and who are your neighbors?
Where are you in the game and tech tree?

A save makes it easier to make responses to that issue.

Primative1 · December 21, 2003, 06:52

It's 1330ad, i've just entered the Industrial era and my most powerful and developed neighbours are the Egyptians. I recently launched a major invasion of Japan, making myself unpopular in the process, in order to gain a supply of Iron but the damn thing ran out 5 turns later.

Serves me right I guess.

I only just bought the game and it seems pretty weird to me that large parts of the game - most modern units I would guess - may end up being unavailable to the player due to the scarcity of a crucial resource.

I'm playing as China btw.

Dominae · December 21, 2003, 10:42

Post a savegame, Primative1.

Primative1 · December 21, 2003, 15:08

Tell me how Dom.

ps Ive been playing all day so the situation has changed but I wouldnt mind posting a save for you guys to take a look at - constructive criticism etc

Rhothaerill · December 21, 2003, 15:13

When you click on "post reply" at the bottom of the new screen is an area for attaching files. Click on browse to find your save file and write up a little blurb about it, then click submit. The rest of us can download it from there.

Primative1 · December 21, 2003, 15:41

OK - here goes - ****, cant get it to work, why can I never get any of this crap to work? It refuses to post the file.

Primative1 · December 21, 2003, 15:43

Trying again....

Primative1 · December 21, 2003, 15:45

Hee hee it worked!

It's the basic game patched to 1.29 - be gentle lads - its my first game.

ps just noticed a rubber deposit - can I go into the johnny business?

vmxa1 · December 21, 2003, 17:37

Ok, I give up, what does it mean to go into the johnny business?

Primative1 · December 21, 2003, 18:01

rubber johnny's - profelactics - durex - sheeths

vmxa1 · December 21, 2003, 19:36

Ah the colloquialism's are amazing.

vmxa1 · December 21, 2003, 20:13

Primative1 I did not spend much time looking at the save as I forgot what it was I was suppose to be looking at (sorry).

I expect Dom will give you a more detail report. I did want to touch on a few things that struck me.

You did not get the ToE? Not to dump on you or anything, but you must beat the AI to that wonder at this level. If you have to, use a palace prebuild. One of the reason, I would suspect is that most cities are very poor on mines and hence shields.

You are not even working toward Hoover, at least you could build some hyrdos, even if you cannot get teh wonder. Most players will gear towards ToE and get all the back level techs filled in while the wonder is being built. This allows you to get two good techs, not a junky one left over. Ideally it propels you towards Hoover.

vmxa1 · December 21, 2003, 20:27

Government- you are in communism and are not even at war, why is that? I don't think I have ever use communism in Civ3.
As a non-religious civ, you really cannot afford to switch governments more than once. To me that means going to republic in CivIII or PTW.

You should head towards it quickly, not beeline, but soon.
You are researching Steel instead of get to Electronics.
I looked at just two cities as I figured that was enough for now.

Kaifeng has +3 food and is going to grow next turn. I moved one citizen to the mined hill to get more shields. One worker had just finished irrigation and the citiy had lots of tiles the are not used. It does not need more water, it need shields and roads and RR.
Yet another was irriagting a tile that was not worked or roaded.
At this stage of the game you should have around 30-50 workers and have all tiles roaded and be getting RR up. You are surrounded by AI cities and could have a war at any time.
Are the workers automated, say it ain't so.

Lonchee was making a bank? It is size 15 and does not have a factory or a university? It has few mined tiles and most are not being worked anyway.

Two seperate workers are clearing forrest instead of roading or RR. Worse both are border tiles and should left forrested. One was a tundra tile and should always be forrested. You do not have time to cut forrest right now anyway.

vmxa1 · December 21, 2003, 20:42

Being in commuism is costing you in research and commerce. Not having your RR up at least to the point of connecting most cities is costing you and is risky.

The lack of mines surely goes back to day1. In short, mine until you need more food in most cities. Shielded grasslands are best for mining early. Use workers efficently, that means no extra moving around. Don't mine hills right away as it takes too long. Yes there are times that you must, but in the early BC times, that is rare. Use forrest and mine grassland first.

If you look at some of the ARR/DAR's of the AU games you can see many cities with nothing but mines, except for the plains and certain food tiles. This lets them generate lots of shields to make structures and units.

It puts you in position in the industrial age to grab those wonders. Take the tech lead and hold it.

petermarkab · December 22, 2003, 15:05

Thought i might get some collective opinion on my current game; a huge, continental standard map, emperor level, playing as Russians.

Here's the savegame - you should take a look before reading the history.

Starting tiles were pretty good, but as i expanded, there were (are) too many flood plains, deserts, plains and a lot of mountainous terrain.

Tried a rather pathetic archer rush on Nederlands (south-west), but pulled back at the last minute - a combination of mercy, setting up a vassal state, and alarm at Portuguese expansion to the north, where i consequently turned my attention.

Found i was falling behind in tech race, and wanted to extract tech, and some rather nice wonders (Pyramids, Great Library) from the tech leaders, Portugal. Also wanted to keep a closer eye on the Germans (far north-east), and their lovely ivory.

Declared war on Portugal, France (south-east) also at war with Portugal, Germany signs alliance with Portugal against me, I sign alliance with France against Portugal and Germany, Holland signs with France against Spain (south) and Portugal, I sign...

You get the picture; six civs, Russia, France and Holland vs Spain, Germany and Portugal.

Approx. 10 turns later, France and Spain make peace, so Spain are now unoccupied by their large neighbour and turn their attention towards me (and the very weak Dutch).

Here's my empire north of Moscow.

...sorry, can't get a screenshot - how do i do this?

And here it is south of Moscow.

...see above

I now have a problem as the first German reinforcements (Ancient Cavalry!) turn up at Yakutsk.

My questions are:

1. Should I make peace with Spain, and how will this affect my rep with Dutch, and more importantly with France?

2. How can I turn the tables on the Portuguese-German alliance?

I am thinking of building 6 or 7 new cities to provide me with roughly 5 to 7 shields per turn per city to kick-start the war effort. Downsides are my current cities will have to take time out to produce the settlers, and I'll be at war for at least 30 turns before i may see positive results.

City sites are:

a. Moscow 6999, on forest next to swamp, (where 6 is east, 9 is north-east etc.)
b. Moscow 322, on plains. Hopefully solid production at size 5.
c. Moscow 447, at archer. Long-term industrial powerhouse.
d. Braga 23. Another long-term industrial powerhouse.
e. Rostov 44. Solid production at size 5.
f. Novgorod 66. Sieze iron.
g. Braga 2221. Incense colony. Will stop irritation friendly settlers from crossing my territory!

Alternatively, I could sue for peace with Portugal and Germany once my alliance with France expires, build these cities peacefully, then relaunch the invasion.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Peter

vmxa1 · December 22, 2003, 16:15

As to posting screens, is th e problem that you do not have a means of capturing the screens or you are not familiar with how to post them?

If it is capture you can use the PrtScn to put them in the clpboard and paste to paint.
You can get a free tool like Irfanview to capture.
In any event resize to 800 and convert to jpeg. This can be done with Irfanview with a few clicks.

After you have the screen shot use the browse function in the reply buton to attach it.

petermarkab · December 22, 2003, 16:27

ok thanks vmxa1 - i was frantically pressing 'PrintScrn' thinking an image of my empire would magically appear!

Will try again...

petermarkab · December 22, 2003, 17:36

trying a screenshot here - should be Northern Russian Empire!!

[IMG]"C:\My Documents\Peter\86Russ-empire-north-130bc.jpg"[/IMG]

petermarkab · December 22, 2003, 17:38

well, i've attached the file - the image text is pretty illegible when shrinking to 800 by 600.

petermarkab · December 22, 2003, 17:40

ok, that worked well!

here's the Southern Russian empire; note the 2 Spanish Swordsmen approaching Novgorod. Yikes!