Antisemitic France: the news that won't make it to the NY times

[Spiffor]

OK I chose a teasing title that doesn't exactly cover the issue here. The issue is that antisemitism is not the only racism on the rise, as the Muslims are victims of an increased hatred as well.

From l'Humanité

Racisme. L'"islamophobie" croit

Dans un rapport récent, la Commission nationale consultative des droits de l'homme s'est penchée sur l'" intolérance à l'égard de l'islam ".

Pas de chiffres dans le rapport de la Commission nationale consultative des droits de l'homme (CNCDH), mais un constat mesuré, sans surprise, et néanmoins inquiétant : les violences visant les musulmans en France sont en augmentation. " Même s'il est impossible de noter une évolution statistique des faits, faute d'instrument, il semble que les violences visant les musulmans et leurs lieux de culte aient augmenté dans les faits, sinon la conscience de cette violence et de cette hostilité ", précise l'étude d'une trentaine de pages, rendue publique en fin de semaine dernière et intitulée Violences et intolérance à l'égard de l'islam dans la société française.

Difficile à mesurer avec certitude en raison d'une absence d'évaluation spécifique des actes anti-musulmans par le ministère de l'Intérieur comme par les renseignements généraux, la montée de ce que certains qualifient d'" islamophobie " - un terme écarté par la CNCDH car prêtant " à controverses " - semble patente, à la lecture du rapport. Celui-ci constate par exemple " que les clichés sur l'islam sont largement répandus et que l'islam est dans une certaine proportion assimilé à l'islamisme ". Pour appuyer son analyse, la CNCDH évoque cette étude menée en 2001 auprès d'un échantillon représentatif de Français, à qui l'on demandait de citer les mots qui correspondent le mieux à l'idée qu'ils se font de l'islam. Résultat : " fanatisme ", " soumission ", " rejet des valeurs occidentales "... Mais, précise tout de suite la CNCDH, ces " associations d'idées ", si elles restent prégnantes aujourd'hui, " ont connu un net recul entre 1994 et 2001 ".

Suspicion renforcée

Composée de représentants d'associations et de l'administration, la commission relève par ailleurs une " multiplication ", depuis 2001, d'ouvrages " hostiles à l'islam " tels que Plateforme, de Michel Houellebecq, ou Un cri dans le silence, de Brigitte Bardot. Des livres qui " ont remporté des succès en librairie malgré leur contenu contestable ".

" L'hostilité qui frappe l'islam - qui pouvait exister avant le 11 septembre - s'est dernièrement vu renforcer par la confusion des termes ''musulman'', ''islamique'', ''fondamentaliste'', ''islamiste'', ''terroriste'', qui est propagée ", regrette la commission, qui énumère de récents " passages à l'acte " : " tracts anti-musulmans provenant de la mouvance d'extrême droite ", " tentatives d'incendie visant des lieux de culte ", " violences verbales ou physiques adressées à des personnes représentant l'islam ", " graffitis au contenu explicite ". Mais, selon la commission, qui cite plusieurs exemples précis, le nombre des incidents répertoriés resterait " bien en deçà du chiffre réel, notamment en ce qui concerne les injures ou menaces verbales et les violences légères ", systématiquement sous-évaluées.

Sur les causes de ces phénomènes, la CNCDH évoque logiquement le poids du " contexte international récent ", mais aussi " une crise de confiance globale ". " Les mesures antiterroristes adoptées, légitimes devant la menace, ont eu pour certains des effets secondaires pervers en renforçant la suspicion à l'égard des musulmans. On demande ainsi aux musulmans de se justifier continuellement, de démontrer leurs distances vis-à-vis des islamistes, des terroristes. Cela paraît créer un terrain propice à l'augmentation des discriminations au quotidien ", pointe le rapport.

L'appel du MRAP

Devant ce constat accablant, le MRAP a annoncé dimanche qu'il allait proposer aux organisations de défense des droits de l'homme, partis politiques, syndicats, mouvements de jeunesse et représentants des cultes, d'organiser une " manifestation nationale contre tous les racismes, les communautarismes, et pour l'égalité des droits ". Tous les partis seront sollicités, à l'exception du Front national et du MNR, précise le communiqué du MRAP, qui déplore ce " vent mauvais " qui " souffle actuellement en France. Rarement l'expression de tous les racismes n'a pris une telle ampleur. Manifestations, actes de violence contre les populations juives, musulmanes, atteignent des sommets inquiétants ". Une " situation trouble " qui, en effet, vaut bien une manif.

To make a long story short: A study of the Commission Nationale Consultative des Droits de l'Homme (a human-rights commission that is composed of various representatives of NGOs and government) has concluded that the hatred toward Muslims has risen this year.

Since the police has no statistical tool to measure specific anti-muslim acts, the criminal aspect of the hatred cannot be precisely assessed, yet anti-muslim violence is clearly more common.
Prejudices about Islam are widely spread in the French public opinion, as Islam tends to get highly associated with fanaticism, submission, and rejection of western values. Despite their recent surge, these prejudices had strongly stepped back between 1994-2001.

The study also notices the broader supply of anti-muslim books, that recieved a wide audience despite a "contestable" content.

The study notices the rise of actions such as:
- anti muslim fliers distributed by the far right
- arson attempts against worship places
- verbal and physical violence toward people representative of Islam
- explicit graffitis
- light verbal and physical violence that always get underrepresented by the police's statistics

The causes of this anti-muslim surge, according to the study, is the tense international climate, as well as the anti-terrorism measures. Muslims have to justify themselves in their daily life, by making clear their distances with terorrists. It creates a climate of daily discrimination.

The anti-racist association MRAP called for a demonstration against "all racisms" and invited all parties except Le Pen's party and his dissident party.

[Sava]

damn frenchies!

[Spiffor]

This thread is mostly inteded to people who think France is turning into an antisemitic country. I want to help them getting the bigger picture: that France is increasingly torn between communities, and a climate of hate and distrust is slowly poisoning the French society.

France is not an antisemitic or a racist country, and will not be anytime soon, in the meaning that our laws protect the victims of racism, and forbid to call for racial hatred. As a country, France has chosen to fight racism (rather than let the population do it alone).

However, increasing parts of the population are fostering communitarian hatred. Jews are victims of it, and some Jews are guilty of it as well. Muslims are victims of it, and some Muslims are guilty of it as well. And you can expect such intolerance to grow further as ordinary middle class people, gays or catholics will be hated by whatever group feeling alien to them.

[Sava]

America is more racist than France... remember... you guys didn't enslave a whole race of people. What's sad is that it took a war to stop it in America.

And for a country that's supposed to be a melting pot, we've had nothing but crusty old white guys for leaders. Even our legislature is run by old white men.

And America doesn't just hate brown and black people... it hates other white people. Just look at the French hatred in America. It's bad. And it's not isolated... it's mainstream.

when will America grow up?

[TCO]

way too much text, spiffy. Could you boil it down a little? Are you trying to curry favor with Jews by saying that you are persecuting Arabs? Make it simple for me.

[Winston]

Maybe an increase in the general dislike of Muslims is in some strange way connected to the antisocial behaviour of a large number of those Muslims, compared to the rest of the population.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by TCO
way too much text, spiffy. Could you boil it down a little? Are you trying to curry favor with Jews by saying that you are persecuting Arabs? Make it simple for me.

We are persecuting both Jews and Arabs.
Yank news sources pretend we only persecute Jews, whioch gives the image of an antisemitic country, whereas the truth is that we're becoming an all-racist all-divided country.

[TCO]

So..."yes"?

[Patroklos]

Yeah, France never had slavery.....

I give hem credit for ending it sooner, but that is a blatantly false statement.

-Pat

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Winston
Maybe an increase in the general dislike of Muslims is in some strange way connected to the antisocial behaviour of a large number of those Muslims, compared to the rest of the population.

If the people associated "muslim" more and more with "crime" or "thieves", you'd have a valid point. However, the associations with "fanatics" doesn't add up.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by TCO
So..."yes"?

"No"
I don't try to curry favor with Jews, I try to have them see a more accurate picture. Any sensible person would think the actual situation is worse than if we were only persecuting Jews.

[TCO]

For the longest time, I thought Frenchies did not use the net. We had none. Face it...you are a weak Frenchy, hanging out with Anglos here.

Go back and work for the Academy to keep your language pure. Send out lots of couriels.

[Spiffor]

Well, thank you for your hinsight I guess

[TCO]

Originally posted by Spiffor

"No"
I don't try to curry favor with Jews, I try to have them see a more accurate picture. Any sensible person would think the actual situation is worse than if we were only persecuting Jews.

I had fun.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Well, thank you for your hinsight I guess

"Ribbit". Jump, frog!

[TCO]

Where is Paiktis. I am in the mood for some Greek-style Othamonizing.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by Sava
America is more racist than France... remember... you guys didn't enslave a whole race of people.

Why do you suppose there are so many blacks in Haiti, French Guiana, Monsarrat, and other former French colonies in Latin America?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Yeah, France never had slavery.....

I give hem credit for ending it sooner, but that is a blatantly false statement.

-Pat

learn to read... I said they never enslaved an entire race of people... which, for all intents and purposes... America did.

Every nation has some roots in slavery... it's just America was the last Western country to stop it... and some dopey crackers still would like to see it.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Why do you suppose there are so many blacks in Haiti, French Guiana, Monsarrat, and other French colonies in Latin America?

oh please... America had FAR more slaves than France. America does everything bigger. We kill more people in wars, we build bigger bombs, we had more slaves...

[TCO]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Why do you suppose there are so many blacks in Haiti, French Guiana, Monsarrat, and other French colonies in Latin America?

But at least they were the first to fly. And the French revolution was before the American one. That is if you do away with Anglo prejudices on chronology.

[Sava]

TCO, I'll buy you a history book for Xmas, kay?

[TCO]

Originally posted by Sava
oh please... America had FAR more slaves than France. America does everything bigger. We kill more people in wars, we build bigger bombs, we had more slaves...

I thought the places like Haiti (islands with sugar farming) had some atrocious consumption of slaves. Fun? go research it.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Spiffor
This thread is mostly inteded to people who think France is turning into an antisemitic country. .

Arabs are also a semetic race, you bigoted bastards.

[Spiffor]

The only difference between France and the US, in this regard, is that France used slave workforce in the colonies. The US was the colonies.

To end the history lesson, slavery was abolished during the French revolution, and a "nègre" was among the prominant French revolutionaries (Toussaint l'Ouverture).

However, dear leader Napoleon restored slavery. The fact that her wife was from a planter family in the colonies had of course nothing to do with it

I don't know when slavery stopped to exist in fact. However, it was formally abolished again (and definitely) in 1848 in the wake of the last monarchy's end.

[DinoDoc]

To make a long story short: A study of the Commission Nationale Consultative des Droits de l'Homme (a human-rights commission that is composed of various representatives of NGOs and government) has concluded that the hatred toward Muslims has risen this year.

We get this in the NY Times. We already know how intolerent France is of religion in general.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Sava
TCO, I'll buy you a history book for Xmas, kay?

Have you ever cracked the cover of a history book?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Spiffor
The only difference between France and the US, in this regard, is that France used slave workforce in the colonies. The US was the colonies.

To end the history lesson, slavery was abolished during the French revolution, and a "nègre" was among the prominant French revolutionaries (Toussaint l'Ouverture).

However, dear leader Napoleon restored slavery. The fact that her wife was from a planter family in the colonies had of course nothing to do with it

I don't know when slavery stopped to exist in fact. However, it was formally abolished again (and definitely) in 1848 in the wake of the last monarchy's end.

Here, Sava, it shouldn't be too difficult for you to read this bit. No need for a hernia induced by opening a book.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Arabs are also a semetic race, you bigoted bastards.

Why is it that we cannot discuse anti-semetism without some person pulling out this tired old samantic arguement? In the English language anti-semetism secifically deals with anti-Jewish prejudece.

Your problem is with the English language. Maybe you should go write to Websters and complain but I think that would be a kin to pissing in the wind.

[TCO]

Ming must not be around. Or maybe this never passed the bar as a serious thread by anyone's take.

[Ming]

Originally posted by TCO
Ming must not be around. Or maybe this never passed the bar as a serious thread by anyone's take.

No... I'm around... and I would recommend you check your PM's... soon...