British trains and government targets

[Solly]

Usually trains have been alright for me, the odd 20 minute delay here or there.

Today coming back from Manchester, was due to catch the 15:57 to Walkden. I arrived at the station and it was running 9 minutes late (16:06), stuck around for a bit..then the display said it was due at 16:12. A few minutes after this, an announcement comes over saying that the train will run from Manchester to Salford Crescent, and then go express all the way to Wigan Wallgate (), missing around 8 stations on the way. One of which was mine.

So had to wait for the next one, no taxi provided, no recompense (yet)...

Targets can work well, but this is just an idiotic way of achieving "on time" status for the train. Missing out stations should not be allowed.

[The Viceroy]

Ive found that on the whole, most journeys via rail are eventless, and as you say, the most you have to deal with is 10-15 mins delay .. but when things go wrong, they really do go wrong.

I reserved my seat for my return from Chester to Euston, and when I got onto the mainline at Crewe, some git was sitting in my seat.. So i asked nicely if they could move, and I got the response "Well, somebodies in my seat !!" ... turned out the reservations system had crashed and had double booked loads of seats and as a result, there were about 20 people too many for the coach, and it caused hours of delays ... AAAAAGH ..

I agree, Targets are useless if it means its ok to reduce your service to acheive them, missing stations is pathetic.

[Dauphin]

A better target would be to achieve a certain level of customer satisfaction. After all, isn't that what the targets are supposedly designed for?

[*End Is Forever*]

You sound surprised Stewart. This sort of thing has been going on for years, particularly on the south-eastern networks where it has caused no end of ire for commuters.

You might also have noticed that "on time" long-distance trains often arrive at their final destination five or ten minutes early... because a "buffer time" that prevents them from arriving late is scheduled in.

Anyway, if you're sufficiently aggrieved, the new "northern" franchise is up for tender early next year; I imagine First North Western will be more than anxious to ensure that any complainants are dealt with satisfactorily in the meantime.

[Dauphin]

EiF, happen to know when Connex services in the Southeast (Kent and Sussex) are due to be revoked? And who is taking over?

[Whaleboy]

Northampton sucks! I have no more to say on this matter..

[Spiffor]

/me can only feel haughty when reading this thread

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Spiffor
* Spiffor can only feel haughty when reading this thread

You're French, you'd be haughty at reading anything.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Big Crunch
You're French, you'd be haughty at reading anything.

We can't help it. We are so impressively better than you that we even sometimes may feel sorry about you Rosbifs.

[Mazarin]

France should obviously get full responsibility for the train system in upcoming core Europe.

[Spiffor]

Well, Mazarin, we're not perfect yet.

Two days ago, when I was travelling from Paris to Stuttgart, I heard in Strasbourg station that some train from Lyons would arrive 20 minutes late

[Ned]

Park, look on the bright side. They told you about the schedule change before you boarded.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Spiffor

We can't help it. We are so impressively better than you that we even sometimes may feel sorry about you Rosbifs.

If you want to give to your poor unfortunate neighbours this Christmas then a few million crates of wine would be appreciated by us all.

[Sandman]

Nationalise 'em.

[*End Is Forever*]

Originally posted by Big Crunch
EiF, happen to know when Connex services in the Southeast (Kent and Sussex) are due to be revoked? And who is taking over?

It's happened already; the franchise has been taken back under the wing of the Strategic Rail Authority in the interim, and a new operator will be appointed "by 2005". I wouldn't hold your breath for any improvements though; the SRA don't appear to have much more of a clue, and they've appointed Connex's old MD to do the same job with the new (temporary) subsidiary "South Eastern Trains" (wonder how much they spent coming up with that moniker!).

Full story (BBC)

[*End Is Forever*]

Incidentally, the only time I've ever travelled on French railways, my train back was hideously late. Also, there are very few lines in France with anything like the frequency and capacity of British lines. It's not a very like for like comparison.

[JohnT]

Get a car.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
Incidentally, the only time I've ever travelled on French railways, my train back was hideously late.

Was it due to the SNCF? In the Stuttgart-Paris travel, I often get late because the Deutsche Bahn has been late even before I climbed in the train...
I have been late in French trains a few times, but then again I use them very often. Your 100% late is really bad luck.

Also, there are very few lines in France with anything like the frequency and capacity of British lines. It's not a very like for like comparison.

In 2001, the SNCF serviced 315 millions trips on long distances, including 83 millions via only the TGV.
On short distances in the Paris region, there were also 560 million more travels.

Maybe you're right, but I'd like to see figures of you substantiating your claim. I looked for them, but I gave up after seeing chaos your rail websites were.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Big Crunch


You're French, you'd be haughty at reading anything.

[Drake Tungsten]

* Spiffor can only feel haughty when reading this thread

* Drake Tungsten feels a bit haughtier than Spiffor

[Skanky Burns]

I like the Australian train system
We have only had 7 major derailments in 7 years. If we make it to the end of this month without another one, that will be less than 1 major accident a year!

[Solly]

The Viceroy

I reserved my seat for my return from Chester to Euston, and when I got onto the mainline at Crewe, some git was sitting in my seat.. So i asked nicely if they could move, and I got the response "Well, somebodies in my seat !!" ... turned out the reservations system had crashed and had double booked loads of seats and as a result, there were about 20 people too many for the coach, and it caused hours of delays ... AAAAAGH ..

Well were there other seats available? If there weren't forgive me for this, but..

Trains aren't aeroplanes ffs. Whenever I am travelling back from uni to Manchester, I'll just take an empty seat. There's never anyone standing on the train..yet you get one grumpy fool demanding the seat the train company allocated him. So you have to get up, moving your coat and bags, and sit on an identical seat opposite. This has happened a couple of times..if there are seats available, take them.

I like the Australian train system
We have only had 7 major derailments in 7 years. If we make it to the end of this month without another one, that will be less than 1 major accident a year!

I remember a funny example of rail safety a while back. I don't remember the specifics but it went something like this. On a certain route, they wanted to slow all trains down to like 20mph or something bollocks like that, in order to make sure the journey was safe. They did an analysis of the situation, and found that doing that would save something like an average of 1 life every 20 years; they also saw that by slowing down the train, they would force x number of people to drive the same journey, an increase in traffic that could cause more than 1 death every 20 years. Er, no doubt EiF knows what I am on about...

[*End Is Forever*]

Stew,

Trains aren't aeroplanes ffs. Whenever I am travelling back from uni to Manchester, I'll just take an empty seat. There's never anyone standing on the train..yet you get one grumpy fool demanding the seat the train company allocated him. So you have to get up, moving your coat and bags, and sit on an identical seat opposite. This has happened a couple of times..if there are seats available, take them.

Not every line is like Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury, you know.

Main line routes out of London - especially at peak times - are regularly reserved to capacity, and that's before people without reservations decide to get on!

I remember a funny example of rail safety a while back. I don't remember the specifics but it went something like this. On a certain route, they wanted to slow all trains down to like 20mph or something bollocks like that, in order to make sure the journey was safe. They did an analysis of the situation, and found that doing that would save something like an average of 1 life every 20 years; they also saw that by slowing down the train, they would force x number of people to drive the same journey, an increase in traffic that could cause more than 1 death every 20 years. Er, no doubt EiF knows what I am on about...

I'm not aware of the specific example, but I do find the hysteria "rail safety" as a topic induces rather puzzling. Serious rail incidents are few and far between, and yet it dominantes the media (even when there has been no such incident), whilst you rarely see headlines about the hundreds upon hundreds of people that die on our roads every year. It's perverse.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
* Drake Tungsten feels a bit haughtier than Spiffor

/me feels ashamed now that Drake entered the place

[:) Smiley]

* scratches head and wonders what trains are

[VJ]

Hooray for private-owned, splintered British railway-organisation!

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by VJ
Hooray for private-owned, splintered British railway-organisation!

yep, for every industry that needed privatizing theres one that didn't.