Thread Tools
Old December 18, 2003, 23:11   #1
Japher
Emperor
 
Japher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Mu Mu Land
Posts: 6,570
Who should be held responsible? (Nukes)
That whole Enola Gay thread got me thinking...

Edward Teller was my idol... Oppenheimer, Fermi, Bohr, the likes as well...

I don't see what they did as a crime. Do you?

I mean, making weapons of mass destruction is not something that they really had in mind, it was a consequence, an end to their means. They proved theory, but at the same time killed many, many, ppl, risked the lives of many more, and really just ignored the purpose of what science is suppose to do, IMO...

From it though, has come other sciences that will safe many other lives, remove ppl from risk, and further the real purpose of what I think is science.

So, do you think that it is the science that kills, or those who use the science to their own goals?

Me? God bless and have mercy on their souls, and thank you from the bottom of my mind.
__________________
Monkey!!!
Japher is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:13   #2
Agathon
Mac
Emperor
 
Agathon's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wal supports the CPA
Posts: 3,948
I think Oppenheimer himself said it better than anyone else.
__________________
Only feebs vote.
Agathon is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:14   #3
Japher
Emperor
 
Japher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Mu Mu Land
Posts: 6,570
What are you thinking?
__________________
Monkey!!!
Japher is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:15   #4
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
Me. It's my fault. Sorry.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
chequita guevara is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:15   #5
Japher
Emperor
 
Japher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Mu Mu Land
Posts: 6,570
duh...
__________________
Monkey!!!
Japher is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:16   #6
Spiffor
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG LegolandApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
Spiffor's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
I was more thinking of the orgyists in China.

These people deserve death and torture!!!!!
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Spiffor is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:20   #7
Japher
Emperor
 
Japher's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Mu Mu Land
Posts: 6,570
jealous, spiff?
__________________
Monkey!!!
Japher is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:20   #8
Patroklos
Emperor
 
Patroklos's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Back to sea, a lot less drinking :(
Posts: 6,418
I blame the caveman who first chipped a river stone to a sharp edge. I mean, JESUS MAN, didn't you think of the ramafications? And wouldn't you know, a week later the little monster went and invented fire. Some poeple never learn.
__________________
"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.
Patroklos is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:23   #9
Space05us
King
 
Space05us's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:51
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,709
Quote:
I blame the caveman who first chipped a river stone to a sharp edge. I mean, JESUS MAN, didn't you think of the ramafications? And wouldn't you know, a week later the little monster went and invented fire. Some poeple never learn.
I tried to warn him, but he just wouldnt listen.
Space05us is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:24   #10
Winston
Emperor
 
Local Time: 16:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 6,291
Much like Patroklos, I believe that Og, who discovered fire on a lazy Sunday afternoon 40,000 years ago, presents us with the same dilemma.

All human progress can be used for both good and evil.

Plus deterrance by nuclear weapons helped prevent the outbreak of an all-out confrontation during the Cold War.
Winston is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:27   #11
Patroklos
Emperor
 
Patroklos's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Back to sea, a lot less drinking :(
Posts: 6,418
Arrogant fool, god only knows how many innocent children have been maimed by thrown rocks and hot stove tops. I think war crimes trial is in order.
__________________
"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.
Patroklos is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 23:36   #12
Cyclotron
Never Ending StoriesThe Courts of Candle'Bre
King
 
Cyclotron's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cyclo-who?
Posts: 2,995
It's a good point that MAD, while terrifying, seems to have actually worked over the Cold War. It seems unlikely that there would not have been further large scale conventional war after WWII if nuclear weapons had not been in play.

As for who is responsible, as has been said, the wielders of a weapon have responsibility, not the inventors. All progress we make can be used wisely or stupidly, and those who use it stupidly are the culprits.
__________________
Lime roots and treachery!
"Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten
Cyclotron is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 00:00   #13
Enigma_Nova
C4DG The Mercenary Team
Emperor
 
Enigma_Nova's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:51
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
Just what was oppenheimer's take on the matter, anyway?
Enigma_Nova is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 00:05   #14
Agathon
Mac
Emperor
 
Agathon's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wal supports the CPA
Posts: 3,948
Quote:
Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Just what was oppenheimer's take on the matter, anyway?
"Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."
__________________
Only feebs vote.
Agathon is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 00:10   #15
Agathon
Mac
Emperor
 
Agathon's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wal supports the CPA
Posts: 3,948
From this, I believe

Quote:
If the radiance of a thousand suns
Were to burst at once into the sky,
That would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...
I am become Death,
The shatterer of Worlds.

- The Bhagavad-Gita
http://www.fatherryan.org/nuclearincidents/trinty2.mov

http://homepage.mac.com/jfstrain/blogsound/OPPYQTE.wav
__________________
Only feebs vote.
Agathon is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 00:11   #16
Space05us
King
 
Space05us's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:51
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,709
you can really say we are all responsible for nukes, and for every weapon for that reason.

Person A invents the pointy stick which makes it easier for him to hunt and therefore more efficient, maybe he begins to stockpile supplies.
Person B is jealous of Person A's accomplishment and wants some of that food to feed his family, so he goes and tries to steal some.
Person A catches person B in the act and puts 2 and 2 together and realises that pointy stick can be used to keep Person B away.
Person B runs away screaming and yelping with pointy stick in his left butt cheeck.

Modern:
Country A wants more resources for whatever reason. They use thier shiny gun to order people to join thier country.
Country B decides that it will remain its own country and further more, for Country A pointing thier shiny gun at them they will humiliate them. So country B grabs thier shiny gun.
Counrties A and B fight and fight, soon very few people wanting to fight are left in each country. A person in country B says "Hey, I have an idea for a shinier gun! It will help us to win!"
Country B makes this gun and uses it effectively against country A
Country A says stop it! Go away we dont want to fight anymore.
Country B says, return to how you were so you wont be a threat to us anymore.
Country A says, No.
Country B points thier shiner gun again
Country A says Ok, ok, we give up.
Space05us is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 08:22   #17
Q Classic
Emperor
 
Q Classic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
who should be held responsible?

che.

at least he admits it.
__________________
B♭3
Q Classic is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 08:39   #18
DAVOUT
PtWDG RoleplayCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
King
 
DAVOUT's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: AUERSTADT
Posts: 1,757
It is hard to accuse science and technical progress when there have been recently hundreds of thousand men slauthered with machete in Rwanda.
__________________
Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
DAVOUT is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 08:40   #19
Q Classic
Emperor
 
Q Classic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
and that's all france's fault.
__________________
B♭3
Q Classic is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 08:50   #20
DAVOUT
PtWDG RoleplayCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
King
 
DAVOUT's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: AUERSTADT
Posts: 1,757
Quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
and that's all france's fault.
France did not cause it, did not do it. France did not prevent it and did not stop it. Nobody else either.
__________________
Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
DAVOUT is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 09:17   #21
Q Classic
Emperor
 
Q Classic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
well i suppose if you want to justify your country's poor record...
__________________
B♭3
Q Classic is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 09:54   #22
Oerdin
Deity
 
Oerdin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
I'm with Che on this one. It's all his fault.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
Oerdin is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:51.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team