The Persians

[Ision]

I have decided to do a review on each CIV. My intention is to encourage debate and hopefully to help others (and myself) in their game play. For the record, I am strictly a Monarch/Emperor player with a builder/warmonger combination style of play.

The Persians

Industrious and scientific, the Persians are a strong production and research workhorse. Persia, along with Egypt has been a perennial ‘newbie’ favorite since the inception of CIV III. New players often struggle with proper worker management, tech research, and combat. Persia has the built in traits and Unique Unit that help mask a new players weaknesses in these areas. This masking has often-lead ‘newbies’ to crown Persia the title of THE best Civ. Experienced players know that there is no ‘best’ Civ, and yet they often rate Persia among their personal favorites. The reason for this is simple; played correctly Persia can dominate a game from beginning to end in a manner that few others can rival. Few AI Civs present as frightening an Ancient Age neighbor as the Persians, and for good reason!

For the peaceful builder Persia offers many advantages. The dynamics of the Ind/Sci combo make Persia a quality builder Civ. Those faster workers, work to Persia’s advantage well into the Industrial Age. This is a 2-fold boost for the builder. Faster workers equals higher shield production and quickly built commerce producing roads. Those shields and extra money usually translate out to faster build times. In tandem with this is a scientific boost that speeds research times, gives half priced libraries and universities, and even provides a free tech at the beginning of each age. Once the Persian infrastructure is up, few Civs can compete with their rate of researching techs. A Persian strategy that prioritizes researching ‘Literature’ will give them early access to those half priced libraries and the resulting cultural and scientific benefits. Persia quite often finds itself as the first to research a tech. The advantages they gain from this are significant. It allows them a head start on those Great Wonders (a head start compounded by their high shield production), a higher chance at a SGL, and the ability to become quite rich playing tech ‘broker’. While not the best of the builder Civs, they can more than hold their own. The player seeking a cultural or space race victory will be well served by Persia.

As a warmonger Civ Persia can be an absolute terror. Those industrious workers quickly laying roads right up to their neighbor’s front door, high shield towns/cities boosting combat unit production, and a science boost that provides the tech parity or tech lead that ensures an up to date military. All of these work in Persia’s favor, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING, makes Persia such a battlefield nightmare as their UU – the Immortal. Every UU is useful, albeit to varying degrees. The impact of most UUs is slight, their greatest value being the ability to initiate a Golden Age. This is not the case with the Persian Immortal. A 30-shield 4-2-1 swordsman level unit, the Immortal presents the single most powerful offensive unit of the Ancient Age. Nothing in the Ancient Age packs the punch of the Immortal (not even ancient cavalry), and it will continue to dominate until the advent of Knights. Defensively even the Greek Hoplite will take a deep breath when confronted by this unit. A common Persian strategy is the beeline to Iron Working, without actually connecting the discovered iron. The Persian can then mass-produce low cost 10-shield warriors while amassing enough gold for a mass upgrade. In large numbers those Immortals can unleash a fury that no Civ can withstand. The ease in which Immortals rip apart neighbor after neighbor can quickly spoil a warmonger. Yet another upside to this UU is that its 4-2-1 stats are competitive well into the Middle Ages, and are not truly outclassed until the advent of Cavalry! While not a Militaristic Civ, Persia can certainly play like one – and outperform most of them.

On the downside, C3C has seen the toning down of the Industrious trait. While still an excellent trait it does not dominate as it once did. However, this is somewhat mitigated in Persia’s case from the boost ‘scientific’ received in C3C. Another downside is their average at best performance when playing island maps. One is hard pressed to find another significant downside.

Summary: The excellent all around qualities of the Persians will see them continue to be among the favored Civs. Their UU alone will draw players to them with regularity. Name the category - culture, space race, war, UU, expansion…- and the Persians, while perhaps not THE best, are better than average. Their greatest strength is a lack of any significant weakness. Persia remains an undisputable top tier Civ that can compete with any Civ – on any level – in any style.

below are my links to other reviews:

the Mongols
the Babylonians
the Egyptians
the Greeks

[justjake73]

I just thought of something - an Immortal has the same traits as a Med Inf, right? So you can save $$$ by not having to upgrade!

[alva]

On the downside, C3C has seen the toning down of the Industrious trait.

The Persian can then mass-produce low cost 10-shield warriors while amassing enough gold for a mass upgrade.

Don't forget that in C3C upgrading has become 50% more expensive.
Nice article

[Cort Haus]

How has the Scientific trait been boosted in C3C?

[geniemalin]

Scientific still gives cheap libraries/universities and a free tech on entering each new age. Now it also increases (from 3% to 5%) the chance of an SGL on being the first to research new tech.

[vmxa1]

Glad you are still at it.

[0bsidi0n]

Nice article!

What kind of stuff has been toned down for industrious? Is there something I'm not aware of...

[Zero]

One thing I like about scientific civ is that I can start IW right away. Getting IW quickly is helpful in determining how you want to build your civ so that you can acquire iron easier.

[Ision]

Industrious : workers are no longer as fast at completeing jobs as before - though still faster than non-industrious civs

scientific: C3C has introduced the SGL concept (scientific great leader) a leader that can rush great wonders if you discover a tech first (5% chance of getting one) - military great leaders no longer rush great wonders.

Ision

vmxa 1: yes I am still at it...lol

[gunkulator]

Immortals are pretty unbalancing. If I get the Persians for neighbors, I make make darn sure I build cities around all the available Iron. If I can't, I try to Archer rush them before they get too big.

Compare the 30 shield Immortal to other ancient 30 shield UUs:
2-2-1 Javelin Thrower
3-3-1 Legionary
3-1-2 Mounted Warrior
2-2-2 Three-Man Chariot
2-3-1 Numidian Mercenary.

I'll take the Immortal any day.

[Artifex]

I like the Gallic Swordsman better. 3 attack is enough to take ancient cities and it can retreat when losing so you can fight another day.

I think speed is so important..a 3-2-2 40 shield ancient UU is devastating.

[vmxa1]

GS is a 40 shield unit, so that is not in the list, but it is a bad boy.
As to Immortals and Legions, I am fond of the Legions as they can defend and have a longer shelf life. Add in the Romans are military.

[Fatwreck]

Originally posted by gunkulator
Immortals are pretty unbalancing. If I get the Persians for neighbors, I make make darn sure I build cities around all the available Iron. If I can't, I try to Archer rush them before they get too big.

Compare the 30 shield Immortal to other ancient 30 shield UUs:
2-2-1 Javelin Thrower
3-3-1 Legionary
3-1-2 Mounted Warrior
2-2-2 Three-Man Chariot
2-3-1 Numidian Mercenary.

I'll take the Immortal any day.

I like the MW more

[Artifex]

Speed always wins in my book. Retreat ability saves tons fo production in saved units. Not to mention ability to run over a civ that much more quickly and run down wounded units.

In ancient age a 3 attack 2 move unit is way more powerful than a 4 attack 1 move unit in my book.

I dislike 1 move units. I love mobility.

[vmxa1]

Well I would not want to bank on any 312 units to beat any 331 on defense let alone 421 units. They have a very short time of use. Legions can defend after they are not useful for attacking for quite awhile. MW can not def at any time.
Like any unit they do have a use. It is not until at least knights that Legions can't defend.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by vmxa1
....As to Immortals and Legions, I am fond of the Legions as they can defend and have a longer shelf life. Add in the Romans are military.

I like the Legionary, when correctly positioned and fortified they can be useful up to the Cavalry age. When you add in my mod (50% worker speed, Builds roads, Fortresses and Baricades) these little buggers become extremely powerful.

[gunkulator]

The Mounted Warrior is second behind the Immortal in my book because you always need more of them to take a city. To take advantage of their mobility, you often end up on grass or plains where they are vulnerable.

The +1 extra attack of the Immortal gives it about 2 to 1 odds against any ancient defender outside of a few UUs. Slightly less for fortifying units but still: There's no other point in the game where the attacker will have such a lopsided advantage.

[geniemalin]

Sipahi vs Muskets?

Berserks vs Pikemen?

but I agree that the Immortals have the longest and most effectively able-to-be-taken-advantage-of window.

[gunkulator]

Sipahi vs Muskets?

By the time they are available, Sipahi will usually be facing those fortified Muskets in Cities, not Towns so the 8 vs. 4 advantage is often reduced to just 8 vs. 7. The AI prizes Nationalism highly and will trade like mad to get it. You do get a reasonably sized window of Sipahi vs. Musket, but not as long as Immortal vs. Spearman and with not as good odds.

Berserks vs Pikemen?

Berserk is a 70 shield unit available at a time when it simply takes too long to build them in large quantity. Their awesomeness is reduced by their scarcity. The Beserk's paltry def=2 requires you to also build Pikes so that some stray group of Archers or Horsemen doesn't decimate your expensive stack. Amphibous stacks are also difficult to amass given the general all-around suckiness of the Galley. One lousy AI Galley can sink 170 shields worth of units. Berserks are good for surprise strikes deep in AI land, but that's about it.

[Zero]

Gallic Swords are now 40? Im not aware of the C3C balance changes.. i dont have it yet. but i was pretty sure they were 50.

Still. MWs are so much better IMO. Same rule as why ansars/keshik are better than knight (10 shield). And this is ancient age we're talking about so 10 shield matters more.

Immortals are almost everyone's favorite once they start playing civ seriously. But immortals can be easily countered with effective mobile army.

Playing either romans or Greece nulls the whole situation. And in fact, instead of having 50% increase odd (3:2), it becomes 33% (4:3).

70 shield in middle age is too expensive? Knight costs 70 as well IIRC. and musketmen too IIRC. 70 shield isnt too shabby for early guerilla/infantry level attack stat. In addition, its good that their defense is low because you dont want to waste 70 shield unit defending. I like the idea that theyre 1 def lower than pikemen so i can waste pikes instead of berserks. I hate when elite Knights die before vet pikes.

Siphai's adavantge is incomparable to immortals. Immortals have long shelf life, but their dominance ends after ancient age. Plus theyre 1move unit. Siphais are not just 2, but 3 move unit, retreats from battle. They both have 2:1 ratio and as you pointed out siphais suffer from opponents from having better equipped defense, but mobility makes up so much more. Plus if you beeline for MT you might catch opponent while theyre still using pikes.

Siphais last until you get tank. During the age where you're using art/inf, you can still choose to build few siphais for additional 2 dmg compared to infantries and far superior mobility (I like how my siphai reinforcement can rally much faster than infantries) and head the offense before you start using infantries that cant retreat.

[vmxa1]

I am not sure why anyone would talk about Immortals and Siphai as if they are on par anyway. I mean one is a very early ancient age unit and the other is the last unit of the middle age. So they are nearly two ages apart.

All calv are three move units. But I won't be building any when infantry are common. The little use they have can be handled by the few leftover ones, that are hopefully elite by then.

[Zero]

I did say they werent comparable.

I usually dont have few leftovers, I have alot.... so I rarely build any. (I want casualty to reduce number of cavs i have)

But If I entered industrial age with very little cavs, I would build them in the core cities. Theyre roughly the same cost as infs, but they have 3 moves, so they can get to the front much faster.

[vmxa1]

They are dead ended at that time and infantry are not. They will soon upgrade to the best defender in the game with two moves.

Three move with A/D of 6/3 can't be used for very many things unless you are playing against a backward Civ. The Cities and metros are safe from a few calv. They can be used to pillage a bit, capture a worker, if one is out and about, kill a cripple and such.

I probably won't have all that many calvs anyway, unless I am play Ottoman. I will have maybe two calv armies and a few others. But I will not crank out lots of them as I will wait for tanks at that point. I often do not get to MT until just before I finish the age. Sometimes not until I get it from the AI.

[jshelr]

I've moved up slightly to demigod level lately and am now enjoying that level a lot. At first, the Persians made a great civ to start exporing the demi level. I agree that the long shelf life of this cheap 4-attack unit which remains effective after pikes and even after muskets makes them the best for tech-extortion. Speed is good, but attack power may be more necessary at the demi level, IMO. The scientific trait is a big help on this level.

[Artifex]

"Gallic Swords are now 40? Im not aware of the C3C balance changes.. i dont have it yet. but i was pretty sure they were 50."


No Zero, Gallic Swords are now 40 as I stated. The cost was reduced for C3C. Thus making the Gallic Swords hands down the best UU in the game and best UU in the ancient age, no contest. This UU is just plain SCARY.

I loved them when they were 50 shields but now...wow...just wow.

[Daddy-O]

Thanks.