Thread Tools
Old December 20, 2003, 18:15   #1
Harry Tuttle
SporeScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
Harry Tuttle's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,207
Nuclear Fusion Site
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...r_reactor_dc_2

Decision Delayed on Site of Nuclear Fusion Plant
1 hour, 7 minutes ago Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Officials of several major countries meeting in Washington to consider where to locate a massive nuclear fusion reactor, postponed their decision after failing to agree on a site, representatives said on Saturday.

Members of the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) project met on Friday and Saturday to choose between a site in France and one in Japan to host the project, worth $12 billion.

They couldn't reach an agreement, French officials said. "At the end of the meeting... it was agreed by all parties present that no definitive choice could be made at this stage," France's Research Ministry said in a statement issued in Paris.

The ITER project is to be a joint venture between the United States, China, Russia, South Korea (news - web sites), the European Union (news - web sites) and Japan and is valued at billions of dollars to build and operate.

The goal is to create a sustained nuclear fusion reaction that potentially will provide a safe and efficient source of pollution-free energy.

The U.S. Energy Department, which hosted the ITER meeting, had said on Friday it expected a decision on the winning site to be announced at the conclusion of the gathering.

It was unclear when the ITER might meet again to vote on the site, but a French official, Stephane Salord, said a decision would have to be taken by February and said that voting rules could be changed to prevent another stalemate.

The European Union supports a site at Cadarache in southern France while the small village of Rokkasho in Japan, home to about 12,000 people, was the prime contender.

Japanese officials said their site offered access to a port and ample supplies of sea and fresh water, which they felt offered an advantage over the French site.

Fabio Fabbi, spokesman for European Union Research Commissioner Philippe Busquin, said the bloc would continue to campaign for its site in Cadarache, near the Mediterranean port Marseille.

"We regret the fact that the international partners were unable to reach agreement in a first shot, because although the Japanese site is of high quality, we think Cadarache is better and deserves to be the location," Fabbi said.

European sources close to the talks, held behind closed doors near Washington, said the United States and South Korea favored locating the plant in Japan. Russia and China were said to back the French site at Cadarache.

As well as prestige, big economic stakes are at play. Construction of the reactor alone is expected to require a decade and to provide employment for about 2,000 workers.

The site selection has potential political significance as well, given the sensitivity of diplomatic ties between Washington and Paris over France's opposition to the Iraq (news - web sites) war.

In nuclear fusion, atoms are brought together as opposed to nuclear fission in which energy is released by splitting the atom, the process used in nuclear plants and to make weapons.



--Ok, I haven't kept up much on Nuclear Fusion reactors.

1). Whose design is it (Tokamak?).
2). What else would the site need besides water.
3). I thought fusion did produce pollution, but in smaller quantities than fission. Obviously helium, but I'm sure there are some really high energy particles that aren't consumed.
4). Will it go Kaboom like the Japanese reactor supposedly did in the 90's?
Harry Tuttle is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 18:25   #2
Sarxis
Rise of Nations MultiplayerAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power II MultiplayerCall to Power MultiplayerCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization IV CreatorsGalCiv Apolyton Empire
Emperor
 
Sarxis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 3,361
This really sounds like politics at work. Both sites are probably fine, but everyone's just picking a team.
Sarxis is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 18:27   #3
Harry Tuttle
SporeScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
Harry Tuttle's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,207
I agree. This sounds like one of those backwater arguments that are sometimes used to fight a political battle without going head to head on a big, news-hungry scale.

Though, I am interested in what exactly they will be building at one of the two sites.
Harry Tuttle is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 18:31   #4
Snotty
C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamPolyCast TeamApolyCon 06 ParticipantsCivilization IV: Multiplayer
King
 
Snotty's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,951
I don't really see any ulterior motive here on the part of the powers involved. China wants it in Europe because they don't like Japan, and Europe and Russia want it close to them so they can make most use of it.
__________________
Safer worlds through superior firepower
Snotty is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 18:46   #5
mrmitchell
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG RoleplayCall to Power Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamNationStatesPtWDG2 Tabemono
King
 
mrmitchell's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,394
This seems to be an awesome idea, if it can get off the ground and work. I don't care where the site is...Japan, France, either works for me.
__________________
meet the new boss, same as the old boss
mrmitchell is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 19:17   #6
DAVOUT
PtWDG RoleplayCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
King
 
DAVOUT's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: AUERSTADT
Posts: 1,757
The world cooperating on a research project, it is great !



Here is the site of the project :

http://www.iter.org/

Quote:

Ministers representing the participants in negotiations on ITER construction - Canada, China, Europe, Japan, South Korea, the Russian Federation, and the United States of America - met in Washington today. Unfortunately, they were unable to reach agreement on the site for ITER, and agreed to meet again after the end of January 2004. They issued the following joint Communique:

"The Six Parties have reached a strong consensus on a number of points.

We have two excellent sites for ITER, so excellent in fact that we need further evaluation before making our decisions based on consensus.

We have agreed to provide remaining questions to the candidate host parties by the end of December for their answers by the end of January.

We will ask the ITER Team in conjunction with the ITER Parties to conduct a rapid exploration of the advantages of a broader project approach to fusion power. This work will be done on the same schedule.

With all this information, we plan to hold a follow-up Ministerial meeting to reach consensus as quickly as possible, likely to be in February."

__________________
Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
DAVOUT is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 19:21   #7
cinch
Warlord
 
Local Time: 07:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 131
Quote:
Ministers representing the participants in negotiations on ITER construction - Canada, China, Europe, Japan, South Korea, the Russian Federation, and the United States of America - met in Washington today.
How come Canada was not mentioned in the original article?

THIS INJUSTICE WILL NOT STAND!

__________________
"I wrote a song about dental floss but did anyone's teeth get cleaner?" -Frank Zappa
"A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice."- Thomas Paine
"I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." -Bob Dylan
cinch is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 19:23   #8
Harry Tuttle
SporeScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
Harry Tuttle's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,207
Hey man, you guys gave up with the Avro Arrow...

Seriously, check out the Starmakers video on the site. Pretty informative.

Last edited by Harry Tuttle; December 20, 2003 at 19:33.
Harry Tuttle is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 19:56   #9
DRoseDARs
lifer
Spore
Emperor
 
DRoseDARs's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 3,554
Yep, it's bigger than a breadbox (though I would have thought it larger than this...)
Attached Thumbnails:
Click image for larger version

Name:	iter8x.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	46.7 KB
ID:	60102  
__________________
The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.
DRoseDARs is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 19:56   #10
Panda
Prince
 
Local Time: 14:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Europe
Posts: 744
If the $5 billion outlay would really result in a $30 billion economic boon, then Europe should expand CERN and build their own.

I don't really see Dubya backing the French site, but the Chinese could be brought round to back the Japanese if the US wanted to exert the influence.
__________________
"I didn't invent these rules, I'm just going to use them against you."
Panda is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 20:02   #11
DAVOUT
PtWDG RoleplayCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
King
 
DAVOUT's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: AUERSTADT
Posts: 1,757
The method of decision is the consensus, so the Chinese changing side would not do the trick. And the Chinese backing the Japan would be something new!

Cadarache, although in France, is not the French site, it is the European site.
__________________
Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
DAVOUT is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 20:09   #12
Snotty
C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamPolyCast TeamApolyCon 06 ParticipantsCivilization IV: Multiplayer
King
 
Snotty's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
I don't really see Dubya backing the French site, but the Chinese could be brought round to back the Japanese if the US wanted to exert the influence.
I thought that Chinas dislike for Japan ran so deep that they would oppose it being built in Japan on principle. China would benefit from it being built there, but Japan would benefit more.
__________________
Safer worlds through superior firepower
Snotty is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 20:26   #13
yavoon
Warlord
 
Local Time: 14:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 155
everyone should build their own.
yavoon is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 20:27   #14
Harry Tuttle
SporeScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
Harry Tuttle's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,207
Well, the only problem I see here is really the job situation. The Europeans will benefit more from the French site as there will be some jobs that can be readily supplied from the surrounding job pool, vice versa with Japan. The kicker is that I doubt that many of the construction or scientific jobs will be pulled from any local sources.

I mean, this is top level research. I'm sure the potential employee list is relatively short and static.

Also, the materials needed for the construction will all probably be made special around the world, and not just on the Continent, or on the Home Islands. So there is no real boost there. Travel costs are negligible. Except for maybe being a boon to a community surrounding the site I don't see any huge economic bonus for eaither site.

Except if you count that whole "pride" thing...
Harry Tuttle is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 20:43   #15
DAVOUT
PtWDG RoleplayCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
King
 
DAVOUT's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: AUERSTADT
Posts: 1,757
There are research centers devoted to fusion all over Europe, including at Cadarache (which detains world records in fusion). It would be more comfortable for the European scientists if the site is in Europe.

As for pride, the undertaking is so difficult and uncertain that modesty is required.
__________________
Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
DAVOUT is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 21:49   #16
DanS
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Deity
 
DanS's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Not your daddy's Benjamins
Posts: 10,737
The BBC reported that Russia, China and Canada also wanted the site in Japan. Russia and China must have been enticed to switch.

Personally, I think this is just a lot of science pork.
__________________
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
DanS is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 21:53   #17
DAVOUT
PtWDG RoleplayCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
King
 
DAVOUT's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: AUERSTADT
Posts: 1,757
Quote:
Originally posted by DanS
The BBC reported that Russia, China and Canada also wanted the site in Japan. Russia and China must have been enticed to switch.
I was surprised to read that on the BBC (without explanations) whereas the French press mentionned the actual results of the vote several days earlier.
__________________
Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
DAVOUT is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 21:56   #18
DanS
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Deity
 
DanS's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Not your daddy's Benjamins
Posts: 10,737
What did that vote say? The same as in the story above?
__________________
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
DanS is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 22:01   #19
Ned
King
 
Ned's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
Why don't they put it in Norway and make it a cold fusion site?

Or, why not Baghdad?
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
Ned is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 22:03   #20
DAVOUT
PtWDG RoleplayCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
King
 
DAVOUT's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: AUERSTADT
Posts: 1,757
Quote:
Originally posted by DanS
What did that vote say? The same as in the story above?
Yes, the same.

I am intrigued by the presence of South Korea. I was not aware that it was engaged in that sort of fundamental very long term research.
__________________
Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
DAVOUT is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 22:44   #21
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
Why do I have a feeling that some super fusion reactor will blow up and kill us all?
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old December 20, 2003, 23:54   #22
Skanky Burns
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansApolytoners Hall of FameACDG3 Spartans
 
Skanky Burns's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:56
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skanky Father
Posts: 16,530
'Cause you are irrational.
__________________
I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
Skanky Burns is offline  
Old December 21, 2003, 01:24   #23
Urban Ranger
NationStatesApolyton Storywriters' GuildNever Ending Stories
Deity
 
Urban Ranger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
Fusion reactors are safe since they don't blow up, melt down, or produce radioactive wastes.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
Urban Ranger is offline  
Old December 21, 2003, 01:25   #24
Harry Tuttle
SporeScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
Harry Tuttle's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,207
Harry Tuttle is offline  
Old December 21, 2003, 01:28   #25
Harry Tuttle
SporeScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
Harry Tuttle's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,207
Quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Fusion reactors are safe since they don't blow up, melt down, or produce radioactive wastes.
Actually I think the component parts of the reactor do retain some radioactivity, but that's only because they are being bombarded with high energy. Overall the reactor would, in theory, be safe.

Except of course you are Keanu Reeves and have a small research facility in an abandoned steel plant on the outskirts of Chicago....
Harry Tuttle is offline  
Old December 21, 2003, 02:46   #26
DRoseDARs
lifer
Spore
Emperor
 
DRoseDARs's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 3,554
Quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Why do I have a feeling that some super fusion reactor will blow up and kill us all?
You're confusing fusion reactors with point singularity plants and "blow up" with "suck us in."
__________________
The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.
DRoseDARs is offline  
Old December 22, 2003, 11:32   #27
Q Classic
Emperor
 
Q Classic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
Quote:
I am intrigued by the presence of South Korea. I was not aware that it was engaged in that sort of fundamental very long term research.
they are.

Quote:
Except of course you are Keanu Reeves and have a small research facility in an abandoned steel plant on the outskirts of Chicago....
supposedly based on my campus. filmed there too. then the idiots blew it up.
__________________
B♭3
Q Classic is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:56.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team