impressed with the AI

anteos · December 22, 2003, 10:52

I finished a game yesterday, where the computer beat me, and it was only on the second level of difficulty.

After fending of various combined attacks, by various AI's, I still had a tech lead, but not the strategic resource rubber. I lead an attack against the aztecs, captured a city near the resource and proceeded to build tanks and infantry men.

I then made the mistake of consolidating and not finishing off the aztecs. They declared war, captured the strategic resource and used air attacks to destroy the city by the resource. Without the strategic resource I was finished. Excellent play by the computer.

Once thing I didn't understand, in on e city I had four bombers and three fighters on air superiority. The city was bombarded and the next round I had no air power? Was that cause by a massive airstrike?

Cookie Monster · December 22, 2003, 11:43

Quote:

Originally posted by anteos
Once thing I didn't understand, in on e city I had four bombers and three fighters on air superiority. The city was bombarded and the next round I had no air power? Was that cause by a massive airstrike?

I don't think bombers can be put on air superiority missions so they were sitting ducks. The reason why your fighters (I'm assuming non jet fighters) didn't intercept is because they have a low percentage chance of intercepting. All the aircraft were bombed by your enemy since aircraft bombing is lethal now in C3C thus the reason why you had no air power in that city. Place some flak units in there as backup and that should help you.

MrWhereItsAt · December 23, 2003, 00:31

Nonetheless it is excellent to hear of such AI behaviour.

Theseus · December 23, 2003, 20:19

Quote:

Originally posted by anteos
They declared war, captured the strategic resource and used air attacks to destroy the city by the resource. Without the strategic resource I was finished. Excellent play by the computer.

Can you be a but more specific? Did the Aztecs bomb the resource first? Did you have units on that tile? What do you mean by "used air attacks to destroy the city by the resource"?

Thanks.

Jeem · December 23, 2003, 21:16

The AI has always been pretty good at bombing runs actually. It seems to treat resources as the main threat and will then try to cut off the city by bombing the road network around it.

It's the same with coastal bombardment - the AI will always go for those coastal luxuries when it can. Removing the players luxuries is one of the main tactics the AI uses, whether by ground, sea or air. If you notice when at war with another civ, you will usually find them sending a spearman through your lands, hugging the most defensible terrain until they get close to a resource. This forces the player to send a few units after it to destroy it before it can pillage the road and resource.

Jeem · December 23, 2003, 21:21

Quote:

Originally posted by anteos
Once thing I didn't understand, in one city I had four bombers and three fighters on air superiority. The city was bombarded and the next round I had no air power? Was that cause by a massive airstrike?

Air superiority can happen too quickly on some PC's that you don't notice what has happened.

In this case, the AI probably sent in a shedload of bombers, and your fighters probably shot a lot of them down. However, fighters have hp the same as normal units, and usually they'll take a few points of damage when knocking out a bomber. If the AI sends in enough bombers, the fighters will eventually lose all their hp's and be destroyed, leaving further bomber attacks to lay waste to your city and ground units.

vmxa1 · December 23, 2003, 23:04

I just had a move I had not seen before from the AI. There was a long thin strand of land that had some furs and some resources.
No one was going to be getting there real soon, but the AI put a spear on the only tile to the piece of land and one more behind it. So even if someone (barbs) got the first one the block was still good. I thought that was pretty clever of the AI.

dexters · December 23, 2003, 23:48

That's an interesting move. Do you have a screenshot? I'd like to have it for my own collection.

I really wish Firaxis would set up a system that allows them to update the AI indefinately, feed them new moves etc. heh.

Antrine · December 24, 2003, 00:04

QUOTE//I really wish Firaxis would set up a system that allows them to update the AI indefinately, feed them new moves etc. heh.//QUOTE by dexters.

You mean, I wish Firaxis would set up the 'editor' that allows 'modders' (players playing god) to update the AI indefinately, feeding them new moves etc.

dexters · December 24, 2003, 00:11

lol :P I was thinking something along the lines of an autopatcher that allows them patch small things or upload new moves, and close exploits without having to call up Atari Q&A and I'm sure arrange the funding neccessary to do another patch.

I'm really grateful that Firaxis has essentially been working on Civ3 since 2001, and if we all bough the two expansions, we've been getting upgraded AI in each patch.

What would be neat though is if small fixes can be done as they come up and not have to wait, 2, 3, 4 months for a fix that may or may not make it into the patch.

Continuing support is really what is needed to fight piracy as well and give value to people who actually bought the game.

PrinceBimz · December 24, 2003, 02:31

Quote:

Originally posted by anteos
I finished a game yesterday, where the computer beat me, and it was only on the second level of difficulty.

After fending of various combined attacks, by various AI's, I still had a tech lead, but not the strategic resource rubber. I lead an attack against the aztecs, captured a city near the resource and proceeded to build tanks and infantry men.

I then made the mistake of consolidating and not finishing off the aztecs. They declared war, captured the strategic resource and used air attacks to destroy the city by the resource. Without the strategic resource I was finished. Excellent play by the computer.

Once thing I didn't understand, in on e city I had four bombers and three fighters on air superiority. The city was bombarded and the next round I had no air power? Was that cause by a massive airstrike?

Those bombers can be a pain in the butt. It is possible that your fighters may not have been able to intercept a few times and got caught on the ground. This is when the bombers can destroy them. It seems with the lethal bombardment, if a fighter is not able to intercept it is just a target on the ground. Also it is possible the AI may have outnumbered you with several bombers and eventually even your intercepting fighters got shot down. You probably needed a few more fighters running air superiority there. In the end, fighters are of course the best defense against air attacks, also flak cannons can help out too.

vmxa1 · December 24, 2003, 03:51

Ah man I wish I had a save, but I deleted my BC era save and I don't use autosave.

anteos · December 24, 2003, 05:40

The city with the resource was isolated from my empire. So it had quite a few defensive units, artillery and an airport.

The AI moved units onto the resouce and destroyed the road on the tile. So I was unable to make any more tanks. At this point I moved a squadron of tanks from my empire, which would take four turns to arrive at the city. I also relocated four bombers and three fighters to bolster the city. I used the artillery to bombard any enemy units within range.

Because I had no rubber, I was unable to build infantry, so I had to make do with riflemen, bad idea.

The AI then bombarded the city by air, destroyed my bombers and fighters. It also bombed the relief column of tanks. After a few turns of that, it moved in a large force of tanks and took the city.

It was quite a smart campaign by the AI, and it caught me on the hop

Cookie Monster · December 24, 2003, 12:58

Quote:

Originally posted by anteos
It was quite a smart campaign by the AI, and it caught me on the hop

Yeah that's the great thing about conquests. All the old strategies have to be modified or discarded altogether. Many things are different. gotto love it.

MrWhereItsAt · December 25, 2003, 09:05

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Ah man I wish I had a save, but I deleted my BC era save and I don't use autosave.

Why not, vmxa? I have found many uses for my old saves as screenshots.

vmxa1 · December 25, 2003, 15:52

Just a neatnik freak. I am always going around deleting stuff, often wishing I had not later. It is not even for disk space as I had 36GB and 80GB drives, mostly not used.

I do have a few from some AU games though. I see some have an orginized collection and that is cool. If I did that I would have to get nutty and catalog them cross ef and all of that, so I spare myself the work.

Colwyn · December 27, 2003, 21:29

How did the AI use its land artillery I've not seen a example of it in my conquests games at all and I even did a mini scenario to test and the AI didn't use their artillery during its turns (just sitting their in city)

Sarxis · December 28, 2003, 00:22

I've seen it use Radar Artillery in this last game. Its funny, I only saw it use this, and no other form of artillery.

Cookie Monster · December 28, 2003, 11:23

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Just a neatnik freak. I am always going around deleting stuff, often wishing I had not later. It is not even for disk space as I had 36GB and 80GB drives, mostly not used.

I do the same

Like you it's not for the disk space. Just a neat thing I guess.

Plotinus · December 30, 2003, 11:40

Here's an interesting thing I hadn't seen the AI do before - at least, not that I can remember, and certainly not so effectively.

As the Byzantines, I had decided that the small island of Japan near me needed to be conquered. My strategy (early in the Middle Ages) involved shipping over lots of Medieval Infantries and Pikemen on Dromons, depositing them next to the target city, and then using the Dromons to bombard the defenders to bits before taking them. I should add how bowled over I've been by the fabulousness of the Dromons - here is a unit that is used for troop transport *and* as an exceptional combat ship as well - the only such ship in the whole game, and the only thing that can bombard enemy territory from the sea until you get Frigates. Cunning use of a strategy like the one I just described - if done less ham-fistedly than I did - could easily make the Byzantines as good at waterborne invasions as the Vikings, as they ferry everyone over and then suddenly use the ferries as fearsome siege weapons in their own right.

Anyhow, the thing is, I bombarded the defenders and proceeded to try to take them out with my land units. But between turns, the wily Japanese moved the injured defenders *out* of the city to heal elsewhere (I think there was no barracks in the target city), and at the same time brought healthy defenders *in* to replace them. There was a steady stream of them dashing back and forth on the roads next to my land-based attackers, who were having to turn their attention to the attack troops coming at them and were unable to take the city as quickly as hoped. I was very impressed by the AI here, and rewarded them by allowing them all to come under my beneficient rule and enjoy four whole luxuries each.

Arrian · December 30, 2003, 13:05

Plotinus,

I think the AI would have been better served to just leave the wounded defenders fortified in the city you were attacking, barracks or no.

A unit in a city w/o barracks heals at 2hp/turn. Moving a unit, however, means it doesn't start healing until the next turn. Which means even if there was a barracks city within 1 turn movement via the roads, the unit would take just as long to heal from 1hp to 4 or 5hp as it would if it were just left where it was.

Bringing in more defenders was the good move. Also, if the wounded units were being withdrawn for upgrade, that would be good too. But just shuffling the wounded out makes no sense. Better to have the extra defenders around, even if they're hurt.

-Arrian

vmxa1 · December 30, 2003, 14:20

Funny you mentioned this as I watched the French do the usual send out 1hp calv to attack someone and get killed.

After watching them fight two or three wars and seeing how bad the RNG was to them, I will try to refrain from crying over my rolls.

Tall Stranger · December 30, 2003, 14:23

I have to agree, though, that overall I think the AI is "doing combat" much better than before.

In my current Rise of Rome game, not only are the Egyptians moving more defenders into a city that I failed to take the first turn, but they are counterattacking MUCH more aggressively than I ever saw in PTW. Maybe it's just me, but after taking a few cities in PTW, the AI would usually hunker down, defend and wait for me to offer peace. Now, they've repeatedly attacked one of the cities I've taken, albeit to little success. (They're attacking a fortified army of Legion II's with their swordsmen. Not a whole lot of hope there, but I still think they have a better chance there than in waiting in cities for me to kill them.)

Plotinus · December 30, 2003, 16:40

Arrian] You know, you're right - I suppose it would have been better to leave the damaged units there. That's what I would have done. They certainly weren't being upgraded (these guys were barely civilised! Just getting into the Byzantine mindset, you know). But I tell you, it *looked* impressive. Another thing they were doing was bringing stacks of spearmen/archers at my units. Sometimes I succeeded in killing or wounding many of these units, at which the survivors - including completely healthy archers - would all clear off again. It seemed like the archers were not prepared to hang around if their defenders were compromised. Evidence of guerrilla tactics, perhaps? At the very least, there was clearly a lot of care being taken regarding the placing of units from turn to turn - it wasn't just "all go and attack/defend the same place" kind of thing.

In any case, as Tall Stranger says, the AI does seem a cannier and more dangerous opponent in wars - even ones like this where I should have whupped them without much difficulty. It's not always easy to specify how, though.

Jaybe · December 30, 2003, 17:23

The AI offered ME a Luxury Trade last night, the first time I have ever seen it happen.

In fact, they even approached me to make the deal (my Silk and 4gpt for their Furs).

Arrian · December 30, 2003, 17:53

I've had the AI offer me a luxury trade before:

You give us your luxury and an astronomical amount of GPT, and we'll give you ours

To which I typically laugh, sigh, and continue planning their destruction.

-Arrian

Kuciwalker · December 30, 2003, 18:01

The AI almost NEVER offers me stuff.

Theseus · December 30, 2003, 21:44

I've been meaning to post this, whether here or in the Fortresses thread.

Not to shabby.

On the other hand...

Kuciwalker · December 30, 2003, 23:14

That's why God invented Galleys.

Colwyn · January 3, 2004, 15:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian

A unit in a city w/o barracks heals at 2hp/turn

Barracks healing it that hard coded for the barracks building or does it apply to any building with the Vet units tag?