All out war.....

Spec · December 22, 2003, 14:12

England declares war on me. Then, Carthage and england form a military alliance against me...So, to stop the trend before everyone allies up against me, I make a military alliance agaisnt England and Carthage with Egypt, Germany, Babylon, Rome and Greece.
So, before 20 turns, I exterminate England and Carthage and now all the Civs I allied up with are Furious against me when they were polite or even Gracious with me the turn before...

Why is that?

Spec.

gunkulator · December 22, 2003, 14:41

Your answer is here.

In a nutshell: Allies are temporarily favorable towards you for as long as the alliance lasts. Since you exterminated the target civs, the alliances ended.

Spec · December 22, 2003, 14:59

And why are they furious? It's not like I cancelled the agreement by ending the military alliance before 20 turns, I killed our common enemy!

If you are right, this is stupid.

Spec.

Dis · December 22, 2003, 15:06

supposedly the game is more challenging if everyone is against you.

a major difference from smac.

vmxa1 · December 22, 2003, 15:44

Actually the AI is not suppose to be able to "gang" up on you as a result of your being the human. It will be do to the same factors
that would cause a rift for AI to AI. IOW the AI is not suppose to treat you differently than other AI's, except for the purpose of trade.

The war was causing you to pile up points that took effect after the war ended. If you razed any cities, that will ding your status. The act of eliminating the civ will cause a hit to you and so on.

You are now presumably stronger than you were and that is another hit.
I would expect you to gain more than the AI, so now they have a different perspective towards you.

If you and I make a deal to gang up on someone and you get more out of the deal than I do, would expect me to be a bit jealous and feel slighted?

Dis · December 22, 2003, 16:07

they don't necessarily gang up on you. But they all seem to hate you if you get too powerful. Unless you agree to their lopsided trades.

mrmitchell · December 22, 2003, 17:32

Quote:

they don't necessarily gang up on you. But they all seem to hate you if you get too powerful. Unless you agree to their lopsided trades.

And is that supposed to be different from real life in any way?

Dis · December 22, 2003, 18:01

You don't see countries like Ghana coming up to us and demanding our stealth technology

vmxa1 · December 22, 2003, 19:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
they don't necessarily gang up on you. But they all seem to hate you if you get too powerful. Unless you agree to their lopsided trades.

Forget Ghana or even Mexico demanding or ganging up, well actually some feel that is how it is on the UN, but forget it.

Look at it from the game perspective. The AI will need to trim any large civ in the game in order to win, just as you would. It is going to be unhappy if you have more than it does as that makes you a threat to beat it. I don't see the problem with that once you get in the lead or even start to take the lead.

If you are low on the totem pole then it makes sense for any civ to consider using you as a means of getting stronger. You see that when one AI keeps going after one of the weaker civs.

MrWhereItsAt · December 23, 2003, 00:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
they don't necessarily gang up on you. But they all seem to hate you if you get too powerful. Unless you agree to their lopsided trades.

Just gifting them a few hundred gold every few (10?) turns or so can help. Try that out. By the later game that should be peanuts.

Shogun Gunner · December 23, 2003, 01:26

yah...the gold will do the trick....but sometimes, they take your gold and declare war on you anyway. If that happens, it was unavoidable.

Makes me think about Neville Chamberlain, "There will be peace in our time!" yeah, right. Germany was an aggressive AI in real life too.

Dis · December 23, 2003, 02:16

I used to think giving them gold per turn would help.

Often it didn't

I figured as long as I owed them money they wouldn't declare war on me. I was wrong.

Mr. President · December 23, 2003, 02:22

It wouldn't be a CivGame if you didn't have to fight sixteen angry AI civilizations with armies half the size of yours and armed with deadly sharpened sticks.

mrmitchell · December 23, 2003, 11:23

Quote:

deadly sharpened sticks.

Invade Rome with Tanks
Raze and loot mercilessly
Oh sh*t, a spearman

steven8r · December 23, 2003, 11:53

Quote:

Originally posted by mrmitchell
Invade Rome with Tanks
Raze and loot mercilessly
Oh sh*t, a spearman

Where's Skywalker's avatar when we need it????

Back OT,
I've had alliances before and I got our common enemy down to 1 city. I surrounded it w/ my troops and just fortified them (mostly to keep my allies from taking the city). Then I waited for the alliances to run-out at which time I cancelled them. The next turn, I took the town and wiped-out that civ.

That strat seemed to 'lessen' my former allies' pure hatred of me. Sure they were no longer 'Gracious' but they weren't totally PO'ed either.

Drawbacks--it takes awhile just sitting there blocking and waiting, and occationally the "besieged" city will get lucky and kill one of your "interdictor" units, so have some backups handy.

I wouldn't recomend this strat if you don't have some units to spare. It requires a pretty good sized military to have units just camp-out. You might need other units elsewhere too. Keep that in mind.

Sarxis · December 23, 2003, 16:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Spec
And why are they furious? It's not like I cancelled the agreement by ending the military alliance before 20 turns, I killed our common enemy!

If you are right, this is stupid.

Spec.

Politics.

Cerbykins · December 23, 2003, 16:20

If all else fails, find someone else to take it out on. You don't have to get heavily involved, it'll just keep the other civs off your back for the main part, until such time as you're ready to pick your next 'hit'

gunkulator · December 23, 2003, 17:10

Sometimes your best wars are the defensive ones, where you don't take any cities at all - or maybe just one city to stave off WW. Get all the AIs fighting each other while you stay out of it. You build Banks and Universities while they produce (and lose) dozens of Cavarly and Riflemen. Afterall, you have to find some way of overcoming the AI's production advantages.

Kuciwalker · December 23, 2003, 19:07

Quote:

Where's Skywalker's avatar when we need it????

right here

Seriously, as soon as I saw "Oh sh*t, a spearman", I was ready to post about my avatar

back on topic, I love to roll over Medieval Era civs (at least, they're defending with Muskets) with my MA armies