In which JohnT goes grognard about grognards...

JohnT · December 23, 2003, 04:15

A month or two ago I bought Railroad Tycoon 3* and became involved in the forums over at Gathering.com. It's been a while since I've been interested enough in a computer game to actually spend time at their forums learning (and giving) tips - the last one was Civ2 and it brought me to this place (1999).

But the thing that really interests me are the people who don't like the game with a conviction and earnestness usually not seen outside church. Regardless of the real and imagined flaws that might exist in RRT3, I have to wonder: what sort of people is it that hang around message boards doing nothing but complain?

There's this one guy who did a VERY thorough analysis of why (in his opinion) RRT3 doesn't match up to another game - 5,500 words in total in just two posts. There are a number of people who think that it is in everybody's best interest to talk about how the game is "broken" in nearly every thread, regardless of topic

Quote:

"Can somebody tell me how to do X?"

"If the game was properly coded and designed, X should be truly intuitive!"

For months! The same people do this for freakin' months! And then they get mad because the "patch" doesn't re-engineer the game to their specifications - and some of what they're asking, it's akin to *****ing to Blizzard because Starcraft is Real Time and you want it to be Turn Based and the patch didn't give you the option of making it RT or TB!

Yeah, one might feel like they wasted $50 - but then, that's why they release demos. And guess what? By the time your life is over a misguided $50 game purchase will likely be WAY ON DOWN your list of "Top-Dollar Items On Which I Wasted Big Bucks."

So what is it with people who have nothing better to do than to shiite over other people's enjoyment?

*There's a thread about RRT3 in Other Games if you care to talk about it there. I also created a pretty cool scenario for those of you with the game - if you're interested, please let me know and I can email it to you or link to one of the hosting sites.

Inverse Icarus · December 23, 2003, 04:31

it's nothing like your starcraft example. it would be more like making the build shortcuts "B, F" for each race's farm, regardless of it's name.

JohnT · December 23, 2003, 04:35

Naw, my Starcraft example is spot on. Some people prefer the RRT2 economic model and are demanding that Pop-Top re-program RRT3 as so to give them the option of playing with either economic models - a massive programming undertaking, one not to be done in a mere patch.

JohnT · December 23, 2003, 04:36

Regardless, the strengths and/or weaknesses of RRT3 is not the purpose of this thread. I'm just... whining about... whiners.

Inverse Icarus · December 23, 2003, 04:38

ah, when i read intuitive, i instinctly thought UI. just finished a class on it.

my mistake

Oncle Boris · December 23, 2003, 06:20

Indeed, people can get almost as zealot as I am when they talk about games.

Now seriously, I have seen similar things at other places. We just have to live with it.

Asher · December 23, 2003, 06:21

RRT3 sucks ass.

But because it sucks so much, the forums must be even worse, so I avoid them at all costs.

The engine for RRT3 just blows, it angers me. Ditto for Deus Ex II.

VetLegion · December 23, 2003, 06:29

Whiners make the world go forward.

They save time for the rest of us too

Every time I see a patch for a game I silently thank the relentless whiners who spend their time on the forums, getting annoyed over a game - for free. It is true love by them

JohnT I don't know if you followed the development of Civ 3 or even SMAC, this community also has it's whiners, some of which have already posted in this thread

, some of which have already became legends but don't post anymore.

In all, don't be so harsh on whiners, they are a constant of all forums and a benchmark to measure our own "moderateness" against. You know, the bad cop and the good cop routine?

"You ****ing Firaxian bastard I will chop off your liver and eat it while I decapitate you and **** down your neck if you dont put a SCHOOL HOSPITAL M1ABRAMS TANK IN CIV 3 N*O*W, no make that YESTERDAY!!!!11!!! This game is a ripoff I hope it sinks at sales and YOUR CHILDREN STARVE you *******s!!!11!!!"

And then you have:

"Dear Firaxian employee see what nutcakes we have here? Don't pay attention to him. But you do agree the game is broken? Now if you could please fix this and this, it would be great! Great game btw!. Thanks"

Nubclear · December 23, 2003, 06:42

What annoys me are the....sorta whiners. Those who acknowledge the flaws of the game and are angry they aren't being changed, but have little warnings inserted throughout their posts:

Quote:

Hi. Just before I begin, I want everyone to know I bought the game and ill buy the next one!
That said:

-A sucks
-B sucks
-C1 and C3 suck as well.

They really need to fix this because of 1, 2, 3, and 4. I'll buy the game regardless, but they REALLY need to fix them.
Blah blah for 200 more words.

Anyway, I love GameCorp and I'll buy their products! I just hope they fix this because its REALLY gamebreaking!

In fact....Ive seen a ton of it in the Civ3 fora

Az · December 23, 2003, 08:57

@Tass.

So, do you say they've changed the economy? that's a shame.

Stuie · December 23, 2003, 09:05

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnT
So what is it with people who have nothing better to do than to shiite over other people's enjoyment?

Well, you're definitely asking the correct audience.

Dr Strangelove · December 23, 2003, 09:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
Ditto for Deus Ex II.

I've been trying to play the demo for Deus Ex, but everytime I install it I get a message saying that "Flesh failed to initialize."

I tried contacting the Eidos support page but they've concocted this neat sort of loop in which the support page gives you the option to select a game, then once you've selected a game you're taken to the home page for the game, which has a button for the support page, which takes you to the page where you select a game, which takes you back to that game's home page.....

Imran Siddiqui · December 23, 2003, 09:21

Eidos sucks... they are such a horrible publisher.

Cookie Monster · December 23, 2003, 09:24

Well thanks fellow Apolytoners. I won't be getting this game.

Az · December 23, 2003, 09:27

Quote:

I tried contacting the Eidos support page but they've concocted this neat sort of loop in which the support page gives you the option to select a game, then once you've selected a game you're taken to the home page for the game, which has a button for the support page, which takes you to the page where you select a game, which takes you back to that game's home page.....

the bastards! I get this in a lot of sites, btw.

duke o' york · December 23, 2003, 09:33

Apolyton could do that, but it seems that some people never leave anyway, so it's probably not worth it.

That's like receiving spam promising to cut the amount of spam in your inbox.

Cruddy · December 23, 2003, 09:38

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnT

So what is it with people who have nothing better to do than to shiite over other people's enjoyment?

It makes them feel better.

It is far easier to destroy than create.

Any ****ing idiot can criticiza. It takes hard work to create anything, even if it doesn't work properly.

How many of these whingers have written 1 line of code, designed even 1 3D model or written one paragraph of a manual correctly without using a spellchecker.

In short; "Nature is bountiful when it comes to idiots" (T Pratchett).

Arrian · December 23, 2003, 10:48

Heh, John, you must not have hung out in the CivIII forums following its release. Oh, the wonders of whiner-fanboy vitriol! It was awful.

-Arrian

p.s. Thanks for the response in the "other games" forum... but I was actually trying to ask a different question (my fault, I wasn't clear).

JohnT · December 23, 2003, 11:42

I don't have any problem with criticism - it is necessary, of course. And much of the criticism is valid, much is persnickity (this button should be HERE!), some is little more than preference, and some is just good old fashioned whining.

But, if you don't like something why spend months of your life telling the world how much you didn't like it?

Arrian · December 23, 2003, 11:47

It's all about expectations. People get their hopes up to impossibly high levels, and then feel like they've been "betrayed" by the game developer when the game doesn't match those expectations upon release. That leads to bitterness, and in some cases people are bored enough that they will spend hours *****ing about it. :shrug:

-Arrian

Spec · December 23, 2003, 12:07

Same thing about Civ3 in the Civ3 General Forum. Remember Libertarian? He devoted his life to bashing Civ3...like many other posters.

Spec.

CerberusIV · December 23, 2003, 12:16

It's just that some people have to go on and on and on.

If the game sucks that much, just throw it in the bin and move on - it's only a game.

But then not everyone has a life.

TCO · December 28, 2003, 23:46

Wait...you mfer! Not everyone has a little dauther tp elp lend perspective or a family bizness soparopera!!!

Some pf us have tpo make do with curisng gaming companies and with wannabe milatry posts cursiong GEROEDBUS!!!

Spiffor · December 29, 2003, 08:21

JohnT:
Your post reminded me the release of Civ3 soooo much. We had tons of whiners, including the professional ones: Coracle, Jimmytrick, Venger, Libertarian... All of them contributed greatly to the cause of whining, and I think they should even outrank Stefu in the course for the Stalin Award.

One special mention should go to Coracle, who continued to whine for a whole year after all others had finally given up

DaShi · December 29, 2003, 08:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Spec
Same thing about Civ3 in the Civ3 General Forum. Remember Libertarian? He devoted his life to bashing Civ3...like many other posters.

Spec.

Ah, those were good times. Good times indeed. :nostalgia:

VJ · December 29, 2003, 08:40

Quote:

But then not everyone has a life.

Life? What is this, erm, life, which you are talking about? Is it some kind of tasty food? Dell's new model? Following OS by MS?

BeBro · December 29, 2003, 09:03

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnT

Quote:

"Can somebody tell me how to do X?"

"If the game was properly coded and designed, X should be truly intuitive!"

For months! The same people do this for freakin' months! And then they get mad because the "patch" doesn't re-engineer the game to their specifications - and some of what they're asking, it's akin to *****ing to Blizzard because Starcraft is Real Time and you want it to be Turn Based and the patch didn't give you the option of making it RT or TB!

Yeah, my favourite kind of complaint is similar "Why is feature xy working this way? It should rather work like in game abc!!! Change it at once, or I´ll hate you and´ll post that in every thread here, if it fits or not, along with dozens of thumps-down smilies! Take THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You wouldn´t believe what you missed all the years where you didn´t visit game fora.

VetLegion · December 29, 2003, 10:00

Quote:

Originally posted by VJ

Life? What is this, erm, life, which you are talking about? Is it some kind of tasty food? Dell's new model? Following OS by MS?

It's just a game. And a buggy one too :dointnow!:

TCO · December 29, 2003, 10:11

Sometimes it is possible to rack up posts and join in the silliness without even playing or owning the game. Like with Civ3. Lots of fun trolling the combat whiners...

JohnT · December 29, 2003, 10:52

Well, should we start the Civ 4 bashing now or wait until a finished product?