Updated Traits Ranking (C3C) - Page 2

Arrian · December 29, 2003, 15:31

I haven't played enough to do a thorough ranking, but I'd put Agricultural at #1. Then I'd have a group that includes Commercial, Religious and Scientific. Next tier would be Ind, Sea, Mil, Exp (not necessarily in that order).

Basically, I've dropped Industrious a LOT, since it has lost most of its power (IMO). The bonus is down to 50% and it doesn't apply to slaves. Militaristic has also taken a hit in my estimation. It still provides the cheap barracks/walls/harbors/airports, and the new & improved armies do rock, but gone is the rushing of GWs with MGLs.

With the new emphasis on research, commercial and scientific are each more important. Being commercial gives you extra income to spend on research, and it means you start with alphabet, allowing a philosophy beeline for a free tech. Scientific civs get the higher chance of SGLs to add to the building discounts & free tech.

But like I said, I haven't played enough to be at all sure of my ranking.

-Arrian

Jeem · December 29, 2003, 19:25

I'd go with...

=1) Industrious
=1) Religious
=1) Agricultural
4) Seafaring
5) Commercial
6) Militaristic
7) Scientific
8) Expansionist

Pre Conquests, I'd have ranked them...

=1) Industrious
=1) Commercial
=1) Religious
4) Militaristic
5) Scientific
6) Expansionist

I dunno what's happened to my beloved Commercial, but it doesn't seem to do what it used to. Either that or it seems to much of a boon in the late game, and not enough in the early game.

Like others, I'd also like to see cheap marketplaces/banks etc, or having +1 trade on all coastal/river towns instead of having to wait until they are cities. Maybe cheaper rush-building under representative governments? Right now, Commercial seems a poor cousin to Seafaring.

Kuciwalker · December 29, 2003, 19:27

Cheaper rush-building would probably be way too unbalancing.

Jeem · December 29, 2003, 19:29

Quote:

Being commercial gives you extra income to spend on research, and it means you start with alphabet, allowing a philosophy beeline for a free tech.

This is a good early-game equaliser for Commercial, but Seafarers also start with Alphabet. I'm not sure if Commercial just seems worse because of the addition of Seafaring. Alphabet has always been highly prized by the AI, but with those Seafarers starting with Alphabet (and being more likely to meet others quickly), Commercial has lost a big edge IMO.

Artifex · December 29, 2003, 21:08

The Celts are maybe the best Civ now.

Agricultural, Religious, and a 3-2-2 ancient UU that has been reduced to 40 shields. Wow.

The only drawback I can see is the despotic GA.

joncnunn · December 29, 2003, 21:19

Wow, traights must be much more balanced in Conquests with this many opinons.

Way to go Firaxis.

joncnunn · December 29, 2003, 21:24

I love Agriculture if I'm near a desert.

I love Seafaring if I'm near a coast.

I love expansionist with either pangena or lowest water setting.

I am always well pleased by Industrious.

I appreciate the cultural aspects of Relgious and Scientific. (Not to mention the 1 turn anarchy and free random techs to start eras.)

Commerical is okay.

And if the oppoents are too close to my starting location, I really apreciate the quick baracks and walls that Militarous provide.

MotownDennis · December 30, 2003, 02:21

Quote:

Originally posted by joncnunn

I appreciate the cultural aspects of Relgious and Scientific. (Not to mention the 1 turn anarchy and free random techs to start eras.)

It IS 2 turns of anarchy now, right?

Am I dreaming?

Kuciwalker · December 30, 2003, 02:35

Yep, it's 2 turns now

I used to be able to revolt when I got the tech, and I would have zero turns because of the order things were done it. Now I have one turn

Artifex · January 2, 2004, 15:16

OK I have gotten to play around with a few games of C3C and now I have to revise my rankings. Scientific has been greatly improved because of the SGLs and they tend to appear regularly. The game is actually very well balanced as the top 4 traits are very useful.

1=Seafaring (Alphabet, early contacts, can cross ocean successfully even in curoghs most the time. I usually have all the civs contacted and w/embassies by the mid-ancient age if I'm lucky).

1=Religious (Anarchy now 2 turns instead of 1 turn but still better than 7-9 turns). Cheap temples and cathedrals are a big plus on the high diff levels.

1=Agricultural (Growth=Power and I love cheap aqueducts).

1=Scientific. My one game playing with it I had half a dozen SGLs by the mid-middle ages.

2. Militaristic (I tend to get plenty of MGLs without it, cheap barracks are nice but Sun Tzu's can be had with an SGL). That said, It's a decent trait and many Elite Units never hurts.

3. Industrius (workers nerfed, it drops. I tend to get by without Industrious well and usually struggle to find jobs for my NON industrious workers by the mid-middle ages).

4. Commercial (It's not powerful until the very late game by that time the game has been won or lost). It starts with Alphabet but so does Seafaring which is a better choice.

5. Expansionist (Map dependent, # of opponent dependent, I never liked it on the standard continent maps with max civs I always play on). The fact it is not useful on many types of maps and settings makes it a bad trait IMO.

vmxa1 · January 2, 2004, 18:24

Not an unreasonable list. This is why I am starting to like the Celts so much and the 2 move swords.

Illyrien · January 16, 2004, 07:39

Does anybody have a list of the exact benefits?

Doc Tsiolkovski · January 16, 2004, 10:18

They did an awful job in rebalancing the traits with c3c; IMHO, there is no weak trait anymore, and the 'best' trait depends solely on map or difficulty level choosen.

AGR is nearly mandatory now for levels above Emperor, helping immensely in the initial expansion.

SEA is my personnel favorite, simply because I love starting at the coast - and of course, the trading is nice.

That said, for Deity I do prefer Dutch.

But though there is no overpowered trait anymore, there are some combinations that are very strong:

AGR+REL
SEA+COM (+2gpt in each city!)
SEA+SCI

Kuciwalker · January 16, 2004, 15:33

Quote:

They did an awful job in rebalancing the traits with c3c; IMHO, there is no weak trait anymore, and the 'best' trait depends solely on map or difficulty level choosen.

That's a balance issue?

AJ Corp. The FAIR · January 17, 2004, 09:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Artifex
The Celts are maybe the best Civ now.

Agricultural, Religious, and a 3-2-2 ancient UU that has been reduced to 40 shields. Wow.

The only drawback I can see is the despotic GA.

Add militaristic to them and

No, it's a good civ to play, and don't mind the early GA:
mass upgrade warriors once you've gotten monarchy/republic (but get there ASAP), then attack with full power. Normally you'll have enough time to expand and conquer, as the AI won't have a huge force of pikemen for the next 10-15 turns.

AJ

ducki · January 17, 2004, 10:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Doc Tsiolkovski
They did an awful job in rebalancing the traits with c3c; IMHO, there is no weak trait anymore, and the 'best' trait depends solely on map or difficulty level choosen.

That sounds more like it should say "awesome" instead of "awful".
-No "worst" trait(s)
-No "best" trait(s)

That sounds pretty balanced to me.

Artifex · January 19, 2004, 17:18

He meant awesome..t'was a simple typo.

Doc Tsiolkovski · January 22, 2004, 09:53

Quote:

He meant awesome..t'was a simple typo.

:thankyou: